Jaguar XF - Was it that good in hindsight?
Discussion
finlo said:
They were a development of the S type which itself was spawned from the Lincoln LS.
The Rolls Phantom is a development of the VW Phaeton. The Audi A5 Coupe is a platform share of The Audi A4 which is a development of the VW Golf, The indicator switch on a Aston DB9 is designed by Ford. I mean where do you want to go with this? Either a car is decent or its not. There's been enough development stages since the Lincoln or S type to make the XF a radically different car.
Platforms are just that - Platforms.
Drive a 3.0v6 Mondeo and drive a 3.0v6 4WD X type and tell me they are the same car? The Mondeo wasn't even built in Britain!
Edited by jw2000 on Tuesday 19th May 01:59
jw2000 said:
The Rolls Phantom is a development of the VW Phaeton. The Audi A5 Coupe is a platform share of The Audi A4 which is a development of the VW Golf, The indicator switch on a Aston DB9 is designed by Ford.
I mean where do you want to go with this? Either a car is decent or its not. There's been enough development stages since the Lincoln or S type to make the XF a radically different car.
People get confused about platform sharing. The S Type shared a platform with several mid range Ford cars including the LS. However its not the same car.
The biggest victim were the petrol x types - literally only about 15% of the car was Mondeo but it didn't stop the press calling it a Mondeo in drag. Even though there was no such thing as 4WD mondeo.
I'm confident the Roll-Royce Phantom is not related to the VW Phaeton, but I take your point.I mean where do you want to go with this? Either a car is decent or its not. There's been enough development stages since the Lincoln or S type to make the XF a radically different car.
People get confused about platform sharing. The S Type shared a platform with several mid range Ford cars including the LS. However its not the same car.
The biggest victim were the petrol x types - literally only about 15% of the car was Mondeo but it didn't stop the press calling it a Mondeo in drag. Even though there was no such thing as 4WD mondeo.
Edited by jw2000 on Tuesday 19th May 01:44
Any excuse to link THAT noise of the tweaked High-Speed test XFR :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa5ivpJwmIQ&pb...
To me, this is less "Spitfire", more quartermile monster, because standing close to top end of the track
the supercharger sound comes first, then the car, then ROOOAAARRR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa5ivpJwmIQ&pb...
To me, this is less "Spitfire", more quartermile monster, because standing close to top end of the track
the supercharger sound comes first, then the car, then ROOOAAARRR.
ash73 said:
Wooda80 said:
Ironically it was Jaguar's existing customers that liked it least. The old-boy golf club S-Type types couldn't get on with it at all at first. Maybe it was a slap in the face to the 'traditional' customers that Jaguar weren't doing traditional any more.
They should have stuck with what they did best - walnut & leather and classy lines - instead of a posh Mondeo.Dead people as far as I'm aware don't normally buy cars so if they hadn't changed Jaguar would have died with them.
I think it was very competitive when launched and a genuinely good car - it was up against the bmw e60 and merc w211 and held it’s own in most areas, arguably better in some.
But within 2-3 years when the xf facelift was due, both bmw and merc had launched completely new models and leapfrogged the game on.
But within 2-3 years when the xf facelift was due, both bmw and merc had launched completely new models and leapfrogged the game on.
SpeckledJim said:
jw2000 said:
dbdb said:
I'm confident the Roll-Royce Phantom is not related to the VW Phaeton, but I take your point.
Totally right I got my luxury cars mixed up The Bentley Continental shares a platform with the Phaeton Wooda80 said:
The music wrecks that one unfortunately. I’ll be back later to tell you about my wonderful 2014 XFR.jw2000 said:
LOL, I never understand people who gripe on about Sat Nav in cars, there's a thing called Google Maps on your phone, I've been using it for the last 5 years - It's live data, can reroute you in seconds, gives you accurate arrival times and you can connect it to the audio Bluetooth for spoken directions, while connected you can also use your phone to stream music, videos or listen to the radio!
It's not 1998 nobody needs Sat Nav now.
I guess it’s hugely important for some. The JLR stuff has never been brilliant but it never mattered unless you were buying the base diesel and using it for deliveries. With the XF the premium is that silly V8. They have a lovely interior and as others have said, on close inspection visually and in tactile terms you can see the lower build budget. The all conquering German stuff has only got better in recent years just as all of this stuff has become pretty much redundant. It's not 1998 nobody needs Sat Nav now.
One thing going for JLR tech is that it understands what you are saying if you speak properly. My BMW requires a selection of regional accents or gutter speak to work properly.
Jim the Sunderer said:
I've owned a pre-facelift 3.0 petrol for a few years now.
There's a few letdowns with it;
The base model seats and radio are a bit s
t.
And the headlamps look like the Elephant Man.
Mrs JS would love me to get rid of my old XJ and buy something else as it occasionally makes her feel car sick.There's a few letdowns with it;
The base model seats and radio are a bit s
t.And the headlamps look like the Elephant Man.
Last time I looked at the XF a quick Google revealed a car much closer to the bottom of reliability tables than anybody would expect with a premium car whereas the Ford era Jaguars were often right up the top with the very best and repeated reports of disappointing refinement from the new Ingenium engines.
There wasn't a single petrol engined one listed either on Autotrader or or the Jaguar approved used dealer network within my back of a fag packet criteria of sub £15k and 40k miles when I looked either so if you're not buying a diesel and you look for strong reliability and superb refinement which is something the Ford era XJ got absolutely right there's not a great deal with the XF to get excited about.
ali_XF said:
Owned 3 - 2008 SV8 - properly quick Q car. Looked like a 2.7D and went like the clappers.
2010 XFR- owned for 3 years, first 18 months it was awesome.
Real Jekyll and Hyde car. Slapped on a set of back boxes and air filters and it dyno’d at 593bhp. But could burble round town taking my son to nursery etc and feel fairly comfortable.
But then the timing chain let go and lunched the engine. Had a warranty but my god was it hard to get it sorted. Dealers doing the work made a mess and it was never right again.
Got rid of that and snapped up a current shape ‘Black Friday special’ lease on a 2.0 ingenium petrol turbo. Bland soulless box built to a price but looked ok and was cheap to run. It went back earlier this year.
My view- the original was a great design for the time, especially given the 2p and a box of sweets budget they had to develop it. Newer one obviously built to capitalise on the increased interest in the brand with no real halo model to take on the E63, M5 etc
Wouldn’t mind an XFRS in a few years time.
Damn you. The beginning of your post and pics are exactly the reason I could see myself buying an XFR...and then you go and ruin it by highlighting the exact reason why I probably won't risk buying one 2010 XFR- owned for 3 years, first 18 months it was awesome.
Real Jekyll and Hyde car. Slapped on a set of back boxes and air filters and it dyno’d at 593bhp. But could burble round town taking my son to nursery etc and feel fairly comfortable.
But then the timing chain let go and lunched the engine. Had a warranty but my god was it hard to get it sorted. Dealers doing the work made a mess and it was never right again.
Got rid of that and snapped up a current shape ‘Black Friday special’ lease on a 2.0 ingenium petrol turbo. Bland soulless box built to a price but looked ok and was cheap to run. It went back earlier this year.
My view- the original was a great design for the time, especially given the 2p and a box of sweets budget they had to develop it. Newer one obviously built to capitalise on the increased interest in the brand with no real halo model to take on the E63, M5 etc
Wouldn’t mind an XFRS in a few years time.
jw2000 said:
LOL, I never understand people who gripe on about Sat Nav in cars, there's a thing called Google Maps on your phone, I've been using it for the last 5 years - It's live data, can reroute you in seconds, gives you accurate arrival times and you can connect it to the audio Bluetooth for spoken directions, while connected you can also use your phone to stream music, videos or listen to the radio!
It's not 1998 nobody needs Sat Nav now.
At the same time, I hate sticking my phone on the window/dash & would much rather use the cars inbuilt nav! I manage to use my 2006 bmws iDrive and don't find it as bad as everyone makes out, quite good tbh. Android auto/apple play is the future for sat nav stuff imo. It's not 1998 nobody needs Sat Nav now.
J4CKO said:
XFR has always been on my lift of next possible car, my default choice is an M3/M4, anyone driven both ?
Do you have the same concern about the tensioner issue, or doesn't that put you off an XFR?There doesn't appear to be a range of specialists that are known to sort this issue [as a preventative measure] as there is with the rod-bearing problem on the E9X M3, for example. XFR's are really good value for money, so I'd certainly look at buying one and then get the tensioners sorted, if there was a range of recommended specialists to do the job.
I remember you mentioning a CLS55 as a potential future car for you to mate. One of those is on my list too, together with an E55.
Max_Torque said:
How anyone with an XF manages with the satnav i'll never know! Literally a £15k Japenese supermini has a better, more intuitive, more useable system, let alone anything of comparable cost from the Germans.........
Yes, but think of the budgets. Toyota vs Jaguar.I think that answers it.
BUG4LIFE said:
J4CKO said:
XFR has always been on my lift of next possible car, my default choice is an M3/M4, anyone driven both ?
Do you have the same concern about the tensioner issue, or doesn't that put you off an XFR?There doesn't appear to be a range of specialists that are known to sort this issue [as a preventative measure] as there is with the rod-bearing problem on the E9X M3, for example. XFR's are really good value for money, so I'd certainly look at buying one and then get the tensioners sorted, if there was a range of recommended specialists to do the job.
I remember you mentioning a CLS55 as a potential future car for you to mate. One of those is on my list too, together with an E55.
It can hardly be rocket science to overcome the failures which are caused by nothing more complex than a combination of sub-standard quality components, extended service intervals and the uneven valve phasing on the V8 which subjects the timing components to shock loading. The fact Jaguar haven't bothered to do any more over the last two decades than faff about with different chains and tensioner materials particularly when failure has such catastrophic consequences is taking the piss.
I've changed the secondary chain tensioners which are the problematic ones on my V8 myself with nothing more than a few basic tools, a handful of tie wraps and a locking tool made from some scrap wood. Took a couple of hours to do both banks - you don't really need any specialist for that.
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