X150 coupe: Talk me out of it
Discussion
stickleback123 said:
I use CAP values as they are far more indicative of the strength or weakness of demand than classified ads that can sit unsold for 6+ months. What things are advertised for and what they sell for can be a million miles apart, follow the market for V12 Mercedes models to see that; greedy sellers asking 50% to 100% over any sensible price with cars unsold for literally years but one comes along at a fair price and it’s always gone within a fortnight.
Like anything there is a reasonable margin for retail, but if you think that margin for X150s should, for some reason, be 100% over trade values then by all means go for it, there will be plenty of sellers who’d be very happy to meet you.
FWIW my experience is that private sales are typically 5-10% over auction prices. A dealer needs more margin of course, and as I said before they do seem to build bigger margins in for JLR stuff because of the expectation of warranty issues.
Ultimately anything is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. My car is currently listed on Autotrader at the lowest price compared to similar age, spec and mileage cars and roughly in line with the suggested value for private sale from Autotrader - does that make me "greedy" in your view?Like anything there is a reasonable margin for retail, but if you think that margin for X150s should, for some reason, be 100% over trade values then by all means go for it, there will be plenty of sellers who’d be very happy to meet you.
FWIW my experience is that private sales are typically 5-10% over auction prices. A dealer needs more margin of course, and as I said before they do seem to build bigger margins in for JLR stuff because of the expectation of warranty issues.
Edited by stickleback123 on Wednesday 15th February 10:18
If you really think you can get a private seller, trader or main dealer to sell you a car at CAP then you're in for a shock.
8bit said:
If you really think you can get a private seller, trader or main dealer to sell you a car at CAP then you're in for a shock.
I've never suggested I can, what I'm saying is that it provides an excellent baseline of market movements - if CAP values have dropped significantly over 6 months, which they have, you can expect retail prices (and private) to do so with some lag.In the same way that you can't expect to buy petrol for the price of crude oil, but the price of crude tells you what's going to happen with petrol.
What margin over trade auction prices you should expect to pay for a retail or private car is a matter for debate, I know it's not 0% but I also know it's not 100%+ either.
stickleback123 said:
Tomorrow I'm keeping my eye on a 124k mile 2007 4.2 that has a CAP of £5,200 and I think it'll go for something starting with a 4 and maybe even a 3. Ok these are not the cherished cars JEC members want, but they serve to drag down the values across the board.
This car went for £4,350 against that £5,200 CAP FWIW, they're consistently failing to make book value which tells you prices are dropping.It looked a decent honest car with enough miles on it that you could happily daily it without worry. 120k+ is not a big deal on these, unlike an X350 it's not unreasonably expensive to do a full suspension refresh either.
Vsix and Vtec said:
Well that bodes well for me I guess. The ones I'm lusting after at the moment are 17k with 50k miles on, with any luck I'll be able to get that car for more like 14k when I come to being ready in July!
Given one I watched recently was2009 38k mile XK 5.0 V8 portfolio coupe in silver - £13,100
I think £16k - £17k retail from a decent dealer who will stand behind the car is not unreasonable, if they've put the effort in to prep and present the car well.
If I was buying that car privately I'd expect to pay about £15k, of course the history matters particularly with an early 5.0 where it'd be nice to see that the timing chains have been changed.
I think the only 4.2 that could be worth that much would be an XKR convertible and even that'd feel a bit toppy.
Forgot about the XKR-S, you'd have to really want one to not just get the more powerful 5.0 XKR with the nicer interior but I'm sure someone will.
I think you'd have a job selling any 4.2 XKR for £15k+ when that can get you into a 5.0 XKR, portfolio or no. I'll let you know next time I see one sell!
I think you'd have a job selling any 4.2 XKR for £15k+ when that can get you into a 5.0 XKR, portfolio or no. I'll let you know next time I see one sell!
stickleback123 said:
Forgot about the XKR-S, you'd have to really want one to not just get the more powerful 5.0 XKR with the nicer interior but I'm sure someone will.
I think you'd have a job selling any 4.2 XKR for £15k+ when that can get you into a 5.0 XKR, portfolio or no. I'll let you know next time I see one sell!
For some the rarity factor is worth the premium rather than the technical capability. I'd probably say the 4.2 XKR-S is the best looking of all the X150 variants, IMHO.I think you'd have a job selling any 4.2 XKR for £15k+ when that can get you into a 5.0 XKR, portfolio or no. I'll let you know next time I see one sell!
stickleback123 said:
Given one I watched recently was
2009 38k mile XK 5.0 V8 portfolio coupe in silver - £13,100
I think £16k - £17k retail from a decent dealer who will stand behind the car is not unreasonable, if they've put the effort in to prep and present the car well.
If I was buying that car privately I'd expect to pay about £15k, of course the history matters particularly with an early 5.0 where it'd be nice to see that the timing chains have been changed.
I think the only 4.2 that could be worth that much would be an XKR convertible and even that'd feel a bit toppy.
I don't begrudge a dealer doing that. Its the 5.0 coupe I'm smitten with, I'd love one in silver, preferably a light dash (dove grey seems to be the lightest) tan or cream seats and wood not aluminium. Proper "old man" spec I know, most seem to be black, with black or two-tone leather, and aluminium dash,,,2009 38k mile XK 5.0 V8 portfolio coupe in silver - £13,100
I think £16k - £17k retail from a decent dealer who will stand behind the car is not unreasonable, if they've put the effort in to prep and present the car well.
If I was buying that car privately I'd expect to pay about £15k, of course the history matters particularly with an early 5.0 where it'd be nice to see that the timing chains have been changed.
I think the only 4.2 that could be worth that much would be an XKR convertible and even that'd feel a bit toppy.
As S123 I have also recently taken an interest in X150 prices. I think it's a great-looking car. I also have a BCA login and I agree there is definitely a softening in prices. Historically it was a car with good residuals, sometimes better than an equivalent age CL for example. I think the current economic trend is affecting prices across the board on nearly everything, bar little happy-shopper automatics.
Interestingly (or not) X350 prices seem fairly robust.
Interestingly (or not) X350 prices seem fairly robust.
tobinen said:
...I also have a BCA login and I agree there is definitely a softening in prices...
You say that, but the Autotrader suggested private sale and trade-in values for mine and the estimate from Motorway.co.uk have both gone up almost £2k since Christmas. Surely the CAP figures play a part in how those figures are all worked out.
Ultimately values may soften , harden or vice versa . Its an increasingly uncertain World we live in threatened with everything from Nuclear annihilation to Sadiq Khans ULEZ expansion . There are one or two certainties however . The X150 remains for most People a thing of Beauty . Its a worthy successor to the E Type in a way that the XJS never could be and they wont be making any more of them . With something this aesthetically pleasing its my belief values will never fall through the floor but instead follow a similar path to the E type which incidentally were virtually unsaleable by the end of Production in the early Seventies .
I'd definitely recommend one. They are one of the best looking cars of their generation in my opinion, really beautiful. Also pretty reliable as a daily driver - they are reasonably straightforward mechanically with big V8 and ZF gearbox. Just make sure its got a decent new battery in it. And check the steel subframes are not too crusty.
This is mine: -
5.0L would be a lovely car with plenty performance - the non supercharged engine does ultimately mean less to go wrong as the cars get older. Get one with a wood interior - statistically less likely to have been thrashed
.
This is mine: -
5.0L would be a lovely car with plenty performance - the non supercharged engine does ultimately mean less to go wrong as the cars get older. Get one with a wood interior - statistically less likely to have been thrashed
.Another owner here, I have a 2007 4.2 XKR convertible. It's my every day car and is used all year round, and it really is a wonderful thing. Mine has a fully documented history and is on about 38000 miles from new. Beyond ordinary maintenance it's been largely trouble free, and I really can't think of another car that delivers so much for so little. I've had apple car play retro fitted to mine which brings the navigation and audio bang up to date.
mmcd87 said:
5.0L would be a lovely car with plenty performance - the non supercharged engine does ultimately mean less to go wrong as the cars get older. Get one with a wood interior - statistically less likely to have been thrashed .
The wood is my preference, I'm of the opinion the only appropriate place for Aluminium in a Jaguar is as part of something functional rather than decorative. Wood or leather everywhere else. .Vsix and Vtec said:
mmcd87 said:
5.0L would be a lovely car with plenty performance - the non supercharged engine does ultimately mean less to go wrong as the cars get older. Get one with a wood interior - statistically less likely to have been thrashed .
The wood is my preference, I'm of the opinion the only appropriate place for Aluminium in a Jaguar is as part of something functional rather than decorative. Wood or leather everywhere else. .
) then don't let that put you off, the veneer sets come up on ebay and forums etc fairly often, or there are a couple of specialist breakers that usually have a couple of sets available.HendrixsWhiteStratReturns said:
True - but that's shocking. All down to value engineering by LR and then trying to duck the issue when it all went tits up. Great brand, dire product
Speaking of JLR value engineering, look at this stunner:
2014 XK 5.0 Signature, 41k miles, £18,500 CAP Clean, but what is this....
Oh bugger....
I've recently bought one - a 2009 5.0 XK Coupe. They are absolutely fantastic, feels really special and even the standard XK is pretty loud.
So far mine has had a coolant sensor that was done under warranty but that's really it. Done about 4k in it including the NC500 and it was just brilliant.
Mine has the cream leather and the wood trim which is exactly what I wanted too. Personally the XK has more than enough power for me and the sort of driving I do, it's a lot faster than our 335d xdrive for example. The R is clearly another level, I went with the view I'd buy the one I liked the most out of what was available at the time and it happened to be an XK. Prices have softened up recently, I paid £17k for mine in September with 56k on it and was happy with that at the time. I reckon a similar car would probably be closer to 15k now. Not that it makes much difference, not planning to sell any time soon!
If you're tempted, do it.
So far mine has had a coolant sensor that was done under warranty but that's really it. Done about 4k in it including the NC500 and it was just brilliant.
Mine has the cream leather and the wood trim which is exactly what I wanted too. Personally the XK has more than enough power for me and the sort of driving I do, it's a lot faster than our 335d xdrive for example. The R is clearly another level, I went with the view I'd buy the one I liked the most out of what was available at the time and it happened to be an XK. Prices have softened up recently, I paid £17k for mine in September with 56k on it and was happy with that at the time. I reckon a similar car would probably be closer to 15k now. Not that it makes much difference, not planning to sell any time soon!
If you're tempted, do it.
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