Think I’ve heard the V8 “Death Rattle”

Think I’ve heard the V8 “Death Rattle”

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Discussion

fergus_tg

Original Poster:

6 posts

183 months

Friday 20th February 2009
quotequote all
Hi all

Referring to broadbean747's legendary post, I am now pretty sure that my 127,000 mile 1998 XJ8 has worn timing chain tensioners (it has the earliest type according to the engine number), as there is a distinct rattle at start up that disappears after a couple of seconds. I understand what is needed to fix this, but I was wondering if anyone has any idea how long the engine will last in its current state, days, weeks, months, years?

I like my cars to be perfect and TBH I’m a little apprehensive of cold starts now.

Also anyone had the job done by a good independent, and at what sort of cost?

Thanks for any advice

F

jonboy07

220 posts

191 months

Friday 20th February 2009
quotequote all
ive looked into this extensivly before buying my xk8, from what most peole sa,take it that they needed done yesterday because they can fail at any time now and its terminal for the engine im sure, im pretty sure its in the reigon of 1200_1500 to get the chains and top and bottom tensioners done, HTH

NormanD

3,208 posts

227 months

Friday 20th February 2009
quotequote all
A good Indy will do it for 1,000/1,200

What area are you in the UK, then someone local to you could suggest your local Indy

groomi

9,317 posts

242 months

Friday 20th February 2009
quotequote all
At the risk of sounding alarmist, I wouldn't risk starting the engine. I'd get it trailered to a specialist to change the tensioners.

If you've heard the rattle then you are lucky to have the warning sign - I (and many others) didn't. Don't put it off!

fergus_tg

Original Poster:

6 posts

183 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
Ok thanks guys. I'll not be using it this weekend then..!

I'm based in Chiswick, West London so was considering giving Millenneium in Croydon a call and do a search through the postings on here for a recommendation. Unless there's someone else I should consider?

The chap I use for the routine stuff is good but isn't a Jaguar specialist and I'd prefer to use someone who's done this a few times before.





groomi

9,317 posts

242 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
fergus_tg said:
Ok thanks guys. I'll not be using it this weekend then..!

I'm based in Chiswick, West London so was considering giving Millenneium in Croydon a call and do a search through the postings on here for a recommendation. Unless there's someone else I should consider?

The chap I use for the routine stuff is good but isn't a Jaguar specialist and I'd prefer to use someone who's done this a few times before.
Millenium / SJC did my engine swap and have serviced my Jags for over seven years. Never had a problem, good guys.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
Unless all the chains are worn due to poor servicing it's likley you will be able to get away with just changing the secondary tensioners. Providing all the primary and secondary chains are all tight and there are no unususal wear patterns on the sprockets and slippers (guides) then it's a reasonably safe bet.

Obviously you don't know exactly what you're getting into until you or your mechanic has the cam covers off. If you're just changing the secondary tensioners it should cost no more that £3/400. Most mechanics like to play safe and change the lot - which means more money for them too, but it's well worth a thorough assesment before you go ahead.

Secondar tensioners on thier own is actually a easy job to do. You can hire the timing tools from the JEC and the parts will cost you about £100. If you're really mean like me you can usually clean up all the seals and re use them too.

Whatever you do get it done ASAP. If a tensioner fails and the chain jumps or breaks then you'll be lucky to get away without smashing valves into pistons - which is likley to put the car beyond economic repair.

P700DEE

1,107 posts

229 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
[quote=Jaguar steve]Unless all the chains are worn due to poor servicing it's likley you will be able to get away with just changing the secondary tensioners. Providing all the primary and secondary chains are all tight and there are no unususal wear patterns on the sprockets and slippers (guides) then it's a reasonably safe bet.

I would not risk it !! I have seen the amount of damaged guides that have come out of these engines. 137K miles , I think you should change primary and secondaries along with all the guides and chains. NormanD is on his third set at a similar mileage wink

sliced bread

202 posts

218 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
fergus_tg said:


I'm based in Chiswick, West London so was considering giving Millenneium in Croydon a call and do a search through the postings on here for a recommendation. Unless there's someone else I should consider?
Give Greg a ring at Luxton Independent Jaguars (Boxhill, near Leatherhead, Surrey) on 01737 844644 or 07968 208585. His mechanic Bill is a Jaguar man through and through, meticulous in his work and very competitively priced.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
P700DEE said:
Jaguar steve said:
Unless all the chains are worn due to poor servicing it's likley you will be able to get away with just changing the secondary tensioners. Providing all the primary and secondary chains are all tight and there are no unususal wear patterns on the sprockets and slippers (guides) then it's a reasonably safe bet.

I would not risk it !! I have seen the amount of damaged guides that have come out of these engines. 137K miles , I think you should change primary and secondaries along with all the guides and chains. NormanD is on his third set at a similar mileage wink
Where's the risk? If the guides and chains are seen to be worn once the cam covers are off then obviously change them. If they are all OK - anybody with engine experience should easily be able to tell - IMO leave well alone, save yourself nearly £1000 and spend the money on beer instead.

Zippyworld

795 posts

183 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
It must be the credit crunch but a Main Stealer in Wilmslow Cheshire called Royles has just quoted me £952 all in for a full fourth generation timing chain tensioner kit to be replaced.


Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
P700DEE said:
Jaguar steve said:
Unless all the chains are worn due to poor servicing it's likley you will be able to get away with just changing the secondary tensioners. Providing all the primary and secondary chains are all tight and there are no unususal wear patterns on the sprockets and slippers (guides) then it's a reasonably safe bet.

I would not risk it !! I have seen the amount of damaged guides that have come out of these engines. 137K miles , I think you should change primary and secondaries along with all the guides and chains. NormanD is on his third set at a similar mileage wink
Where's the risk? If the guides and chains are seen to be worn once the cam covers are off then obviously change them. If they are all OK - anybody with engine experience should easily be able to tell - IMO leave well alone, save yourself nearly £1000 and spend the money on beer instead.
And another thing... The secondary tensioners fail because they are a crap design and not because of wear. Either the plastic bodies split, or the slipper comes off. Either way failure causes the chain to loose tension which will allow it to jump teeth or jam completely and break.

Actual chain stretch, or severe wear on the slippers, sprockets and guides resulting in the need to replace all the components is always a result of chronic lubrication failure - have a look at the pictures of repairs in progress - the engine is invariably coated with a tarry brown gum which is a classic sign of infrequent oil changing or gross overheating.

TBH, whenever I see an engine in that filthy condition with a substantial amount of wear on the timing gear it starts me wondering what state the rest of the engine is in.

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
.....the parts will cost you about £100.
Please can you tell me who you sourced your parts from - even with discount the figure I'm seeing is several times that.

Thanks.

drummerboyXJR

189 posts

186 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
quotequote all
Probably BritishParts, you dont need a lot for doing the uppers.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
quotequote all
yes British Car Parts - around £100 for the two tensioners and new bolts. Gasket set is around £45.

IIRC Berkshire Jag Components sell the whole set for around £380.

I bought mine from the main stealer as I get a discount - came to £107.64 inc vat

groomi

9,317 posts

242 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
quotequote all
Zippyworld said:
It must be the credit crunch but a Main Stealer in Wilmslow Cheshire called Royles has just quoted me £952 all in for a full fourth generation timing chain tensioner kit to be replaced.
Fourth generation? What's the difference from the third generation and why do they need replacing? confused

P700DEE

1,107 posts

229 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
quotequote all
137K miles, I think that if you are taking the engine apart then it would make good sense to do the whole lot. I do not beleive that at this mileage there will have been no wear and with a death rattle the loose chain will most likely have scored the guides. 37K you might indeed get away with just secondaries but I would consider preventative maintenance of any chain based engine by 100K miles

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
yes British Car Parts - around £100 for the two tensioners and new bolts. Gasket set is around £45.

IIRC Berkshire Jag Components sell the whole set for around £380.

I bought mine from the main stealer as I get a discount - came to £107.64 inc vat
Do you have a phone number / web address for British Car Parts please?

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all
Customerservice@britishcarparts.co.uk

01438 354816

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
Customerservice@britishcarparts.co.uk

01438 354816
Thank you.