Seat Leon Cupra R 225 boost leak.
Discussion
Took it back to the garage today and had them show me the part they changed, so all is good, even though it did not solve the problem. It's going in again soon for a smoke test and a good days investigation to try and get to the bottom of the problem.
This afternoon I had the fault code read again after the fault had reoccured, same code, same mystery. There are a few things that need doing for the general health of the car, a new air filter and cold air feed to go on as the one on now is knackered and on the verge of disintegrating. I'm probably going to get a Jetex kit on there. A stronger spring might be needed in the dump valve as the weaker springs can blow open on full boost, venting the turbo intake and causing the engine to s
t a brick as it fuels at a high rate and the air flow suddenly disappears, they are only £18 so I might have a go and see if that helps at all.
The option is there to have the ECU reflashed with the default Seat map for the car, removing a potentially dodgy remap. I think I will probably put this on my "to do" list, as they will do it for about £40, and it will make life easier on the engine in the long run.
I looked at the TIP today and I'm pretty sure it's a Forge one that is already on there - it had a smudged white logo that I'm sure identified it as a Forge pipe, if so then thats good news.
Total ball ache but I hope to get to the bottom of it.
This afternoon I had the fault code read again after the fault had reoccured, same code, same mystery. There are a few things that need doing for the general health of the car, a new air filter and cold air feed to go on as the one on now is knackered and on the verge of disintegrating. I'm probably going to get a Jetex kit on there. A stronger spring might be needed in the dump valve as the weaker springs can blow open on full boost, venting the turbo intake and causing the engine to s
t a brick as it fuels at a high rate and the air flow suddenly disappears, they are only £18 so I might have a go and see if that helps at all.The option is there to have the ECU reflashed with the default Seat map for the car, removing a potentially dodgy remap. I think I will probably put this on my "to do" list, as they will do it for about £40, and it will make life easier on the engine in the long run.
I looked at the TIP today and I'm pretty sure it's a Forge one that is already on there - it had a smudged white logo that I'm sure identified it as a Forge pipe, if so then thats good news.
Total ball ache but I hope to get to the bottom of it.
I feel your pain! I have a Cupra and replaced all the boost hoses with silicone and ripped out the PCV system to replce with a catch can. Its on a Revo 2 map for 6 months and ive just blown the Pre cat Lambda! grrrr!
anyways, that garage sound like a bunch of monkeys - I wouldnt leave my car there and instead get on Seatcupra.net and find a local Vag Com user to help ya out. I avoid oil air filters as they eat MAF's, and the TIP is the pipe connected from the MAF to the Turbo. Looks standard on yours. But what dumpvalve to you have? Im guessing 007p due to spring changes? anything other can throw Limp if not set up properly - im on a Split-r which cause alot of issues, but 2 yrs down - none for me!
Hope you solve it soon
but least you have a cupra in the right colour!! 
anyways, that garage sound like a bunch of monkeys - I wouldnt leave my car there and instead get on Seatcupra.net and find a local Vag Com user to help ya out. I avoid oil air filters as they eat MAF's, and the TIP is the pipe connected from the MAF to the Turbo. Looks standard on yours. But what dumpvalve to you have? Im guessing 007p due to spring changes? anything other can throw Limp if not set up properly - im on a Split-r which cause alot of issues, but 2 yrs down - none for me!
Hope you solve it soon
but least you have a cupra in the right colour!! My faith has been restored in the garage, had them unhook the sensor clip and show me the new bit underneath - to be fair, underneath that tired looking exterior there was a shiny brass ring of the new sensor.
I've ordered a Jetex red angled cone filter, rated for 250bhp, to replace the Green Cotton filter that is crumbling away.
While I suspect my engine may be generating somewhat more than 250bhp on full boost, with this fault it has been unable to drive on full boost anyway. I'll be fitting that filter at the weekend, then some time next week I'll be leaving my car at the garage again for a smoke test to root out any possible leaks in the turbo system and then a reflash of the ECU to restore the standard Seat map for the car. I know I will be sacrificing some power but 225bhp is enough for me, and it will reduce strain on the turbo and other systems too.
I decided not to go with the cold air feed kit from Jetex, it was about £95! There is a cold air feed in there already but it won't be connected up to the new filter, I think I will just pull the pipework out - it looks pretty ratty now anyway. If I'm running a standard map and not going for power I don't think I will get a great benefit from it anyway; I know heatsoak might be more of an issue on hot days when travelling at lower speeds but I think I should get on ok with just the cone filter.
Hopefully this new filter and a reflash should get the car back to regular health, and after the smoke test and any subsequent leaks that might appear have been fixed up, it should be awesome again.
I've ordered a Jetex red angled cone filter, rated for 250bhp, to replace the Green Cotton filter that is crumbling away.
While I suspect my engine may be generating somewhat more than 250bhp on full boost, with this fault it has been unable to drive on full boost anyway. I'll be fitting that filter at the weekend, then some time next week I'll be leaving my car at the garage again for a smoke test to root out any possible leaks in the turbo system and then a reflash of the ECU to restore the standard Seat map for the car. I know I will be sacrificing some power but 225bhp is enough for me, and it will reduce strain on the turbo and other systems too.
I decided not to go with the cold air feed kit from Jetex, it was about £95! There is a cold air feed in there already but it won't be connected up to the new filter, I think I will just pull the pipework out - it looks pretty ratty now anyway. If I'm running a standard map and not going for power I don't think I will get a great benefit from it anyway; I know heatsoak might be more of an issue on hot days when travelling at lower speeds but I think I should get on ok with just the cone filter.
Hopefully this new filter and a reflash should get the car back to regular health, and after the smoke test and any subsequent leaks that might appear have been fixed up, it should be awesome again.
Agreed, dont flash the map - do you know what map it is. Alot of different maps behave in different ways, so i agree with the above, contact the previous owner if you can.
Put the cold air feed in!! The open cone will just suck all that hot air from the engine STRAIGHT back into itself and cause serious heat soak!!
My bay below - rat, track slut - but works! get to know your engine and why things are there.
Put the cold air feed in!! The open cone will just suck all that hot air from the engine STRAIGHT back into itself and cause serious heat soak!!
My bay below - rat, track slut - but works! get to know your engine and why things are there.
rb5230 said:
Surely you want to be sure of what the problem is before sacrificing the remap and losing around 40horses.
I would have thought if the remap was the problem it would have been like that ever since it was done and therefore the previous owner would have taken it up with them?
I don't know what the map is, it doesn't feel like a Revo map, it's not smooth at all, it's very "1980s turbo", nothing......WHOOOSH! I would have thought if the remap was the problem it would have been like that ever since it was done and therefore the previous owner would have taken it up with them?
I will get them to do the smoke test before flashing it - if there is a boost leak and they can fix it then it might sort the car again, but they did note that even though the coolant and oil temps were in spec on the diagnostic, the engine bay of the car felt very hot and I had not even driven hard on the way there. A symptom perhaps of a poor map where boost limit and fuelling have been upped rather crudely to achieve big power?
I'd be quite happy to sacrifice a bit of power if it also meant that it could prolong the life of the turbo too - at full boost acceleration is quite savage!. At least I'd be back to a clean sheet, and if I ever wanted more power I could just get a Revo map on there.
As for the cold air feed, I might try and make it fit but tbh it looks shabby as and will probably fall to pieces when the current (s
te) air filter is removed. There is a circular heat shield around the intake pipe that sits just around the neck of the current air filter, I will try and leave that in place if possible.A new cold air feed kit from Jetex is £130 or so quid, I may put one on at some point in the future but I don't think performance will be dire without it in the meant time.
At the end of the day I'm just sick of the damn thing being broken, I would happily have a slightly more standard car, with less power if it meant I could use the power with less worrying!
Edited by Mastodon2 on Thursday 9th June 18:24
As an interesting note, I decided again tonight to test if the cut-to-limp-mode fault was 100% reproducible, it is not. Took it up to 6000rpm (above where the fault normally occurs) in 3rd and 4th gear (on a private track) and not even a stutter. Pulled like a freight train right up towards the red line. Air temp outside was 7.5 degrees, when I tried last week it was something like 13 degrees, neither time did it cut out.
So why does it only seem to happen in daylight hours? Now I am wondering what the other variables I have not considered may be - the last time it went into limp mode was about 5000rpm in third gear, outside air temp about 12.5 degrees. Perhaps the MAF has an intermittent fault - trouble dealing with the increased volume that warm air has over cold air maybe. Whatever it is, this one has stumped even the best VAG mechanics so far. The best they could suggest was a list of parts to replace, a smoke test and a reflash back to the standard map. I think I will get the reflash, if only to preserve the life of the turbo and other internals, but I'm damn near certain there are no boost leaks, the thing just feels so damn strong, and on a good day it feels so healthy. Perfect smooth idle, pulls incredibly hard on full boost etc. Drives like tonight's make me remember why I fell in love with this car in the first place!
The new air filter is going on tomorrow, so I will see if that makes a difference. I am slightly concerned about how small it looks compared to the one that is on there, I will report back with my preliminary findings after giving it a bit of a drive.
So why does it only seem to happen in daylight hours? Now I am wondering what the other variables I have not considered may be - the last time it went into limp mode was about 5000rpm in third gear, outside air temp about 12.5 degrees. Perhaps the MAF has an intermittent fault - trouble dealing with the increased volume that warm air has over cold air maybe. Whatever it is, this one has stumped even the best VAG mechanics so far. The best they could suggest was a list of parts to replace, a smoke test and a reflash back to the standard map. I think I will get the reflash, if only to preserve the life of the turbo and other internals, but I'm damn near certain there are no boost leaks, the thing just feels so damn strong, and on a good day it feels so healthy. Perfect smooth idle, pulls incredibly hard on full boost etc. Drives like tonight's make me remember why I fell in love with this car in the first place!
The new air filter is going on tomorrow, so I will see if that makes a difference. I am slightly concerned about how small it looks compared to the one that is on there, I will report back with my preliminary findings after giving it a bit of a drive.
You are running a standard turbo intake pipe and diverter valve? The standard turbo intake pipe is known to collapse at high rpm on a remapped car, and the standard diverter valves break very easily. I'd replace with a silicon pipe and and a forge stainless steel diverter valve. Might be worth replacing the MAF as well and also getting shot of that cone filter which looks fked. Have considered also replacing basic ignition parts such as spark plugs and coil packs?
ked. Have considered also replacing basic ignition parts such as spark plugs and coil packs?Fitted the new Jetex red filter this morning, slipped on easily enough. Had to A-team a mount to hold it up though, a one of those screw-tightened rings you use to hold them onto the air intake mount, fitted around the thin end of the cone, linked to a cable tie through the old mount for the airbox. Not exactly pretty but it supports the weight of the air filter.
The old cold air feed pipe is in, but I did not attempt to connect it to the air filter, it's full of crap which I don't really want blowing straight onto the filter. It's position about 2" away from the end of the cone, so there will still be cold air coming up and into the cone to a degree.
Even though the new filter is only rated for 250bhp it seemed fine at sustained full boost in third gear, in all honesty it was probably flowing a lot better than that old st one that was on there anyway. It has a more hollow growl at idle now (from the front end, the Miltek is as bassy as ever) but the induction noise is just as good when driving.
Curiously, the car ran fine even when driven hard, I averaged about 24mpg although it was a short journey, just enough time to heat the coolant and oil, put it through it's paces and then cool it before returning home. Hopefully this new air filter will have solved the fault.
The filter that came off is now in the bin, I should have taken a photo of it really. It was a dark green cone filter with a circular metal collar around it's neck, almost like a small heat shield, and a bladed plastic vortex generator thing on the tip of it's cone (I thought it had an inverse cone like the one I just got, but apparently not), and it was bloody rotten - the outside was crumbling into dust!
I am still undecided on the remap, but after this mornings drive I don't think there are any leaks in the turbo system. It's a bloody funny fault this one. It was suggested that crap from the air filter could be getting sucked over the wire element in the MAF at high boost causing it to trip to limp mode, and after fitting the new air filter this morning it certainly felt strong and healthy.
I don't think ignition or coilpacks are faulty, it starts up first time, everytime, idles perfectly and does not misfire or grumble in any fashion at lower revs, the fault was only occuring in almost identical conditions, high up the rev range, almost like crossing an imaginary line that made it go into limp mode. And now, it seems the fault has disappeared, at least for the time being!
I think I have a standard TIP, but I know I have a Forge 007P dump valve, which is supposed to be one of the best you can get.
The old cold air feed pipe is in, but I did not attempt to connect it to the air filter, it's full of crap which I don't really want blowing straight onto the filter. It's position about 2" away from the end of the cone, so there will still be cold air coming up and into the cone to a degree.
Even though the new filter is only rated for 250bhp it seemed fine at sustained full boost in third gear, in all honesty it was probably flowing a lot better than that old s
t one that was on there anyway. It has a more hollow growl at idle now (from the front end, the Miltek is as bassy as ever) but the induction noise is just as good when driving.Curiously, the car ran fine even when driven hard, I averaged about 24mpg although it was a short journey, just enough time to heat the coolant and oil, put it through it's paces and then cool it before returning home. Hopefully this new air filter will have solved the fault.
The filter that came off is now in the bin, I should have taken a photo of it really. It was a dark green cone filter with a circular metal collar around it's neck, almost like a small heat shield, and a bladed plastic vortex generator thing on the tip of it's cone (I thought it had an inverse cone like the one I just got, but apparently not), and it was bloody rotten - the outside was crumbling into dust!
I am still undecided on the remap, but after this mornings drive I don't think there are any leaks in the turbo system. It's a bloody funny fault this one. It was suggested that crap from the air filter could be getting sucked over the wire element in the MAF at high boost causing it to trip to limp mode, and after fitting the new air filter this morning it certainly felt strong and healthy.
I don't think ignition or coilpacks are faulty, it starts up first time, everytime, idles perfectly and does not misfire or grumble in any fashion at lower revs, the fault was only occuring in almost identical conditions, high up the rev range, almost like crossing an imaginary line that made it go into limp mode. And now, it seems the fault has disappeared, at least for the time being!
I think I have a standard TIP, but I know I have a Forge 007P dump valve, which is supposed to be one of the best you can get.
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