A4 technic Stop Start problem
Discussion
Miki, I see where your coming from , I will put this forward as to date I am not at all convinced that the software is that reliable there are just to many oddities and inconsistencies in the operation of the car or is it me?
I get dam well fed up as we'll with not being able to make my own decisions but having some pip squeak from Germany telling me not to leave the car with the engine running or one not letting me start with seat belt of and the next day it's ok I DONT NEED THIS I CAN MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS THANK YOU, MR DAM AUDI, I see today they have announced more In their drive to driverless cars , god help us all the pile of scrap with an Audi in the middle will be an interesting thing to see , they are busy lobbying governments to allow us to have this 1984 scenario inflicted upon us , hope Lloyd's of London has very deep pockets when all the claims come poring in
I get dam well fed up as we'll with not being able to make my own decisions but having some pip squeak from Germany telling me not to leave the car with the engine running or one not letting me start with seat belt of and the next day it's ok I DONT NEED THIS I CAN MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS THANK YOU, MR DAM AUDI, I see today they have announced more In their drive to driverless cars , god help us all the pile of scrap with an Audi in the middle will be an interesting thing to see , they are busy lobbying governments to allow us to have this 1984 scenario inflicted upon us , hope Lloyd's of London has very deep pockets when all the claims come poring in
And why the hell are we having to tell Audi how to sort out their cars , after all their diagnostics say it's all OK and in their Teutonic little heads this what they have to rely on , it's beyond them to see beyond what's been written down , they are stymied when a bit of thinking outside of the envelope is required.
I think my comments would apply to other manufacturers as we'll , going back to driverless cars , until now I have resisted Sat Nav , and if the Audi one is typical of the offerings I will certainly not worry about it again . It has no idea how to nav in London I confound her all the time , recent trips further afield are no better offering the most ridiculous routes , it has become fun seeing what nonsense she comes up with next , and here is the rub with the driverless car it will be covered In Sensors etc , but it will not have a human brain , there will be no intuition , perception , foresight or intelligence to over come the plethora of problems we all solve every minute when driving. My Sat Nav if turned on seems to like me to "stay right " when I do not need to , if this were part of the driverless system there would be queues of cars in Lane 3 on motorways at junctions , keep thinking this happens now with numpties blindly following sat nav instruction in any case , A13 into London is a case in point , maybe that's why lane 3 is always empty.
I think my comments would apply to other manufacturers as we'll , going back to driverless cars , until now I have resisted Sat Nav , and if the Audi one is typical of the offerings I will certainly not worry about it again . It has no idea how to nav in London I confound her all the time , recent trips further afield are no better offering the most ridiculous routes , it has become fun seeing what nonsense she comes up with next , and here is the rub with the driverless car it will be covered In Sensors etc , but it will not have a human brain , there will be no intuition , perception , foresight or intelligence to over come the plethora of problems we all solve every minute when driving. My Sat Nav if turned on seems to like me to "stay right " when I do not need to , if this were part of the driverless system there would be queues of cars in Lane 3 on motorways at junctions , keep thinking this happens now with numpties blindly following sat nav instruction in any case , A13 into London is a case in point , maybe that's why lane 3 is always empty.
Chippo
I share your sentiments about Audi uk - enough said... but back to your problem.
Computer programs/diagnostics are only as good as the people who "program" them - I could go right off on a tangent here but... modern mechanics troubleshooting skills are becoming diluted by crappy computers and their diagnostics systems.
Suggest you post where you are located roughly in the country - and ask for someone on here to recommend an independent who likes a "challenge"
So... again getting back to my points
1.) Get it to an independent Audi specialist - will save you stress & you will get an unbiased opinion -
I had to get a problem fixed on my passat (now my wifes car) previously that no one could diagnose - but an independent did - the fault code threw up something completely different to what it was.
2.) Have you taken on the my point about trying your spare keyfob?? - Long shot but worth a go?
As I think I've already said all my cars have always been serviced by independents - there is a reason for that...
I share your sentiments about Audi uk - enough said... but back to your problem.
Computer programs/diagnostics are only as good as the people who "program" them - I could go right off on a tangent here but... modern mechanics troubleshooting skills are becoming diluted by crappy computers and their diagnostics systems.
Suggest you post where you are located roughly in the country - and ask for someone on here to recommend an independent who likes a "challenge"
So... again getting back to my points
1.) Get it to an independent Audi specialist - will save you stress & you will get an unbiased opinion -
I had to get a problem fixed on my passat (now my wifes car) previously that no one could diagnose - but an independent did - the fault code threw up something completely different to what it was.
2.) Have you taken on the my point about trying your spare keyfob?? - Long shot but worth a go?
As I think I've already said all my cars have always been serviced by independents - there is a reason for that...
Edited by mikiesb on Monday 24th March 21:45
Miki , we have been down this route for months now with Audi UK both my self and the MD of my company and we just get the same reply from them , we have a stack of e mails.
They insist that if the computer "says no" then that's it as far as they are concerned , it really is as sad as that , would be funny like Little Britain if it were not so serious , but i am out for a drive with a dealer tomorrow , I have already asked and if i can demonstrate the fault they will consider doing something. But of course with the limited capabilities of Audi to fault find conventionally i wont hold my breath when waiting for them to find a solution, because diagnostics will not show a fault !
Can't wait for the driverless cars !!!!, out of interest when they are in the center of a pile of scrap who will be liable ? The passenger ( er sorry driver ) or Audi !
They insist that if the computer "says no" then that's it as far as they are concerned , it really is as sad as that , would be funny like Little Britain if it were not so serious , but i am out for a drive with a dealer tomorrow , I have already asked and if i can demonstrate the fault they will consider doing something. But of course with the limited capabilities of Audi to fault find conventionally i wont hold my breath when waiting for them to find a solution, because diagnostics will not show a fault !
Can't wait for the driverless cars !!!!, out of interest when they are in the center of a pile of scrap who will be liable ? The passenger ( er sorry driver ) or Audi !
Chippo1 said:
The problem is out there not common but there .
God am I going to enjoy it when they finally have to concede there is a problem
On another issue does any one find the starting procedure to be a bit of a lottery , I know it looks at any number of parameters before it allows the engine to start , most of them there for uninformed mechanically un sympathetic drivers, but to date I find the whole affair pretty inconsistent , some times I have to wait and get the nice little "engine starting". Message and others it starts immediately , this all on cold starts in the morning exterior temp low single figures , just seems like there are software issues or errors and it doesn't really know what it's doing . The doors shut seat belt on parameters seem to be lottery to , some times needed others not
Hi. Are you sure this isn't just the delay while the glowplugs are working? I have this too. In previous diesel cars I had, you could start before the light had gone out and it would splutter and struggle. With this car, it's actually programmed to only start the engine when the light has gone out no matter when the key has been pressed.God am I going to enjoy it when they finally have to concede there is a problem
On another issue does any one find the starting procedure to be a bit of a lottery , I know it looks at any number of parameters before it allows the engine to start , most of them there for uninformed mechanically un sympathetic drivers, but to date I find the whole affair pretty inconsistent , some times I have to wait and get the nice little "engine starting". Message and others it starts immediately , this all on cold starts in the morning exterior temp low single figures , just seems like there are software issues or errors and it doesn't really know what it's doing . The doors shut seat belt on parameters seem to be lottery to , some times needed others not
Starting a Diesel car with glowplugs is pretty much always the same procedure though, you are supposed to wait until the light goes out before starting the engine, but this car actually forces you to wait, and won't start until it's ready.
Glowplugs are only used in cold weather, so this should get better when the weather starts getting warmer.
Edited by gregpot2000 on Thursday 27th March 12:56
gregpot2000 said:
Chippo1 said:
The problem is out there not common but there .
God am I going to enjoy it when they finally have to concede there is a problem
On another issue does any one find the starting procedure to be a bit of a lottery , I know it looks at any number of parameters before it allows the engine to start , most of them there for uninformed mechanically un sympathetic drivers, but to date I find the whole affair pretty inconsistent , some times I have to wait and get the nice little "engine starting". Message and others it starts immediately , this all on cold starts in the morning exterior temp low single figures , just seems like there are software issues or errors and it doesn't really know what it's doing . The doors shut seat belt on parameters seem to be lottery to , some times needed others not
Hi. Are you sure this isn't just the delay while the glowplugs are working? I have this too. In previous diesel cars I had, you could start before the light had gone out and it would splutter and struggle. With this car, it's actually programmed to only start the engine when the light has gone out no matter when the key has been pressed.God am I going to enjoy it when they finally have to concede there is a problem
On another issue does any one find the starting procedure to be a bit of a lottery , I know it looks at any number of parameters before it allows the engine to start , most of them there for uninformed mechanically un sympathetic drivers, but to date I find the whole affair pretty inconsistent , some times I have to wait and get the nice little "engine starting". Message and others it starts immediately , this all on cold starts in the morning exterior temp low single figures , just seems like there are software issues or errors and it doesn't really know what it's doing . The doors shut seat belt on parameters seem to be lottery to , some times needed others not
Starting a Diesel car with glowplugs is pretty much always the same procedure though, you are supposed to wait until the light goes out before starting the engine, but this car actually forces you to wait, and won't start until it's ready.
Glowplugs are only used in cold weather, so this should get better when the weather starts getting warmer.
Edited by gregpot2000 on Thursday 27th March 12:56
Greg , I am aware of the function and requirements of glow plug operation, my comments relate to the inconsistency of the system to decide if they should be heated and therefore delay in cranking the engine , this in near identical conditions one day to the next . The old light on the dash with timer worked ok for me , but now of course we are all Siena's dummies and have the decision to fully turn the key taken away from us !
Any way car ran ok today when I drove around with Audi for 2 hours . Sod's law , so on we go , dearer admitted the cost of new clutch linear pot is only about £60 , but 4 to 5 hours labour , wow. Also it was clear dealer needs to read the users manual as to how and when the car starts itself after a SS cycle , which is my problem. They stated it was maybe me moving the gear stick before the engine started cycle started , clearly drivel tried that one any number of times it work fine . They also suggested does not restart until clutch is fully down , again nonsense , that only applies to initial start on key , the clutch linear pot measures clutch position and initiates the SS cycle immediately the clutch pedal is touched , so by time it is down and 1st gear engaged engine has fired up and car ready to go
So Audi UK have no idea and nor do their dealers , I am afraid it's very much a case of little Britain, I am stymied now , can some one please run over the dam car in an artic and destroy the thing
Any way car ran ok today when I drove around with Audi for 2 hours . Sod's law , so on we go , dearer admitted the cost of new clutch linear pot is only about £60 , but 4 to 5 hours labour , wow. Also it was clear dealer needs to read the users manual as to how and when the car starts itself after a SS cycle , which is my problem. They stated it was maybe me moving the gear stick before the engine started cycle started , clearly drivel tried that one any number of times it work fine . They also suggested does not restart until clutch is fully down , again nonsense , that only applies to initial start on key , the clutch linear pot measures clutch position and initiates the SS cycle immediately the clutch pedal is touched , so by time it is down and 1st gear engaged engine has fired up and car ready to go
So Audi UK have no idea and nor do their dealers , I am afraid it's very much a case of little Britain, I am stymied now , can some one please run over the dam car in an artic and destroy the thing
Well Audi have said tough , they are like little britain , computor says no and that's it , so good luck all with any problems that do not show up as fault on dianostics, because they wont or cant do any other form of fault finding its seems.
Latest fiasco is the last dealer to look at the probem, the master tech didnt even know how the system worked , i suggested he took five mins to read the hand books and maybe some more trianing was in order , it beggars belief. He was of the opinion that the clutch need needs to be fully depressed for the SS system to start an engine start cycle , when clearly this is notthe case , the system only needs to see clutch movement which is deteced by the linear potentiometer on the clutch peddle so i beleive. The only time the clutch needs to be fully depressed is for a start with the ignition key from scratch thereby reducing starter motor loads when cold.
Oh any one had this one , MMI screen flashing like a flamming light house , I can see this as being the same out come , computor says no .!
Latest fiasco is the last dealer to look at the probem, the master tech didnt even know how the system worked , i suggested he took five mins to read the hand books and maybe some more trianing was in order , it beggars belief. He was of the opinion that the clutch need needs to be fully depressed for the SS system to start an engine start cycle , when clearly this is notthe case , the system only needs to see clutch movement which is deteced by the linear potentiometer on the clutch peddle so i beleive. The only time the clutch needs to be fully depressed is for a start with the ignition key from scratch thereby reducing starter motor loads when cold.
Oh any one had this one , MMI screen flashing like a flamming light house , I can see this as being the same out come , computor says no .!
I've been trying to avoid this thread but I just have to ask. . . .
Have you managed to demonstate the fault to the technician at the dealership you are dealing with?
It is not an Audi policy to not investigate if the diag computer says there is no fault. Any switch that doesnt work for example wont log a code as it simply thinks it hasnt been pressed.
It is however an Audi Warranty policy that a technician must "confirm the fault" that is witness it occur and agree it is a fault and not a characteristic or the cars normal behavior,
e.g 1 my R8 exhaust is really loud when i start from cold, I can confirm this occurs, but its not a fault it is normal operation.
e.g 2 my timing chain has a horrable rattle when i start from cold, I can confirm this and it isnt right, we will investigate and fix it.
Trying to piece together exactly what the car is doing when the fault occurs, so it can be replicated time and time again, is what it key here. Pretty sire CEO of Audi UK has no idea how to do this.
Have you managed to demonstate the fault to the technician at the dealership you are dealing with?
It is not an Audi policy to not investigate if the diag computer says there is no fault. Any switch that doesnt work for example wont log a code as it simply thinks it hasnt been pressed.
It is however an Audi Warranty policy that a technician must "confirm the fault" that is witness it occur and agree it is a fault and not a characteristic or the cars normal behavior,
e.g 1 my R8 exhaust is really loud when i start from cold, I can confirm this occurs, but its not a fault it is normal operation.
e.g 2 my timing chain has a horrable rattle when i start from cold, I can confirm this and it isnt right, we will investigate and fix it.
Trying to piece together exactly what the car is doing when the fault occurs, so it can be replicated time and time again, is what it key here. Pretty sire CEO of Audi UK has no idea how to do this.
Tame Technician said:
Trying to piece together exactly what the car is doing when the fault occurs, so it can be replicated time and time again, is what it key here
Perhaps if the OP has access to a camera he could record a 'cockpit view' of a few journeys when hopefully the fault will occur, that might help in identifying any particular conditions which are present and contributing to the problem?Frankly the attitude of Audi stinks , they refuse point blank to accept any evidence be it video or sworn statements from other's who have witnessed the problem.
They will only take notice if the ESN car washer from a dealer ship witnesness the problem
I am quite aware of the limitations of the Audi diagnostic system in that if there is a sensor fault and that sensor operation in its self is not monitored then no fault will register , the system does not record events, i believe you can get an OBD recorder which will record all events and fault over time , but Audi do not use them so I am told by Audi UK , and on that basis the sytem does not even log the engine turning over and failing to start , which happens often .
The fault remains intermittant , didnt do it today at all for example , but on friday during a very similar driving cycle it failed approx 10 times and to date i have not been able to demonstrate the problem toand Audi dealer , one dealer tech not even knowing how the SS system actually functions!!
There are other instances of this happenng recorded on the net
And many poeple who find problems witht the SS system and just turn it off
My wifes little Jazz has SS , it works perfectly and totally unobtrusivally , where as when it works in the Audi re-starting the oil burner means the car shakes its self to life , and when it fails to start and just cranks your fillings nearly fall out. THe fuel ecomony is so far removed from the Audi claims that every bit of saved fuel counts esp as i drive in London a lot , so i dont see why i should the dam system off
They will only take notice if the ESN car washer from a dealer ship witnesness the problem
I am quite aware of the limitations of the Audi diagnostic system in that if there is a sensor fault and that sensor operation in its self is not monitored then no fault will register , the system does not record events, i believe you can get an OBD recorder which will record all events and fault over time , but Audi do not use them so I am told by Audi UK , and on that basis the sytem does not even log the engine turning over and failing to start , which happens often .
The fault remains intermittant , didnt do it today at all for example , but on friday during a very similar driving cycle it failed approx 10 times and to date i have not been able to demonstrate the problem toand Audi dealer , one dealer tech not even knowing how the SS system actually functions!!
There are other instances of this happenng recorded on the net
And many poeple who find problems witht the SS system and just turn it off
My wifes little Jazz has SS , it works perfectly and totally unobtrusivally , where as when it works in the Audi re-starting the oil burner means the car shakes its self to life , and when it fails to start and just cranks your fillings nearly fall out. THe fuel ecomony is so far removed from the Audi claims that every bit of saved fuel counts esp as i drive in London a lot , so i dont see why i should the dam system off
Hi, I have a 59 plate audi a4 sline and my car did exactly the same. The other week I must have tried starting it like 20 times to no avail. Then it finally started. I kid u not the only difference I did was press the clutch harder. Only way I can Describe it is I was only pressing your clutch 95% ever since I been pressing it 100% it has stopped doing it. Don't know if this is a coincidence or a correlation but it's doing the trick for now. Will keep you posted if it stops starting again...
Nsand777 said:
Hi, I have a 59 plate audi a4 sline and my car did exactly the same. The other week I must have tried starting it like 20 times to no avail. Then it finally started. I kid u not the only difference I did was press the clutch harder. Only way I can Describe it is I was only pressing your clutch 95% ever since I been pressing it 100% it has stopped doing it. Don't know if this is a coincidence or a correlation but it's doing the trick for now. Will keep you posted if it stops starting again...
Did the starter spin over the the car not fire, or the starter didnt spin?Correct me if I am wrong , the clutch only needs full depression for a start from scratch not on a SS start , an SS start takes place as the clutch begins to move this is detected by the clutch movement sensor and not the sensors for the full depressed position .
I have 2 stages of failure , 1 , there is no attempt to start the engine , 2 , the engine cranks and fails to start , neither condition appears to be logged by the ecu,s . And hence Audi,s little Britain response of computer says no !
The worst thing is the problem has slowly improved , why , I have slowly amended my driving style to over come this latent defect , keeping foot on clutch at lights etc . Which I am now thoroughly annoyed about as I am doing it in the other 2 cars I drive regularly.
What with this and the abortion of an electronic parking brake you will never catch me in one of these piles manure ever again. And why oh why didn't i do my research properly , any studies you care to mention show Audi as just about the worst of the major players for reliability let alone customer services , nice interior plastics though , great marketing too , well every body believes it it seems .
The last dealer visit for service they tried to charge for a previously agreed warranty repair and the charge for engine oil was beyond a joke , so next time will supply our own oil , £90 for 5 litres of bog standard Castol in bottle with professional label what a joke when they buy the stuff in 45 gallon drums at serious discount from Castrol , it is a standard oil full stop with a nice label , once place this is confirmed is on the Opie oils website.
I have 2 stages of failure , 1 , there is no attempt to start the engine , 2 , the engine cranks and fails to start , neither condition appears to be logged by the ecu,s . And hence Audi,s little Britain response of computer says no !
The worst thing is the problem has slowly improved , why , I have slowly amended my driving style to over come this latent defect , keeping foot on clutch at lights etc . Which I am now thoroughly annoyed about as I am doing it in the other 2 cars I drive regularly.
What with this and the abortion of an electronic parking brake you will never catch me in one of these piles manure ever again. And why oh why didn't i do my research properly , any studies you care to mention show Audi as just about the worst of the major players for reliability let alone customer services , nice interior plastics though , great marketing too , well every body believes it it seems .
The last dealer visit for service they tried to charge for a previously agreed warranty repair and the charge for engine oil was beyond a joke , so next time will supply our own oil , £90 for 5 litres of bog standard Castol in bottle with professional label what a joke when they buy the stuff in 45 gallon drums at serious discount from Castrol , it is a standard oil full stop with a nice label , once place this is confirmed is on the Opie oils website.
Had a ride in a Seat Alhambra taxi this morning , pleasant experience .
But why I mention this is that it totally confirmed my opinion of Audi and VAG cars in general , a triumph of marketing over substance with the 4 brands sharing so much .
Looking around the interior of the seat it was obvious just how many common trim parts there are and where they are not identical they are clearly made in the same factory using the same material , even down to the A Pillar trims.
The economies of shared parts and manufacturing are just so evident , and hence the dumbing down to enable the cheaper brands to remain economic to manufacture.
I wonder here the Audi brand will go , unless of course the acolytes continue to be slaves to the marketing !
But why I mention this is that it totally confirmed my opinion of Audi and VAG cars in general , a triumph of marketing over substance with the 4 brands sharing so much .
Looking around the interior of the seat it was obvious just how many common trim parts there are and where they are not identical they are clearly made in the same factory using the same material , even down to the A Pillar trims.
The economies of shared parts and manufacturing are just so evident , and hence the dumbing down to enable the cheaper brands to remain economic to manufacture.
I wonder here the Audi brand will go , unless of course the acolytes continue to be slaves to the marketing !
I Am having problems with my A5 10' with the start/stop function. it turns on while driving at any speed(intermittently)and continuously tries to function through the fault by going on and off for about 15 seconds before completely switching off the car(coming to a halt).Very dangerous on a hill as power steering turns off mid drive.
Initially the car would start up straight away, but the last couple of times it is unable to start and from experience, requires a few minutes to rest before it starts up again, similar to a dead car battery.
Regards,
Alex
Initially the car would start up straight away, but the last couple of times it is unable to start and from experience, requires a few minutes to rest before it starts up again, similar to a dead car battery.
Regards,
Alex
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff