Audi urS4 or urS6
Discussion
Hi guys,
this is a car I have considered in the past, but never really took it any further as they always seems pretty thin on the ground.
Once my 944S (in the classifieds
) has sold, I will be looking for another estate car, and something interesting will be needed!!
Had defaulted to settling for something like a Saab 9-5 aero, or maybe a Volvo 850R (had one before, loved it!) - but then I thought about a B5 S4. Trouble is, really, this car needs to be semi reliable, so on the fence about the S4.
Anyway, this lead me back to the urS4/S6.
I don't really know a great deal about these, other than having the lovely 5 pot Turbo, looking nice yet subtle, and being an early Audi, would assume are reasonably well built and specced.
Other than that - I know very little.
Are they a viable car for daily/winter use? Any obvious pitfalls? Are parts still difficult to find? I have looked around the usual places and not seen any for sale currently, but have seen the odd one for aorund £1500 a few months back. Is that a sensible price, or would that be a 'cheap' one?
Any info would be much appreciated
this is a car I have considered in the past, but never really took it any further as they always seems pretty thin on the ground.
Once my 944S (in the classifieds
) has sold, I will be looking for another estate car, and something interesting will be needed!!Had defaulted to settling for something like a Saab 9-5 aero, or maybe a Volvo 850R (had one before, loved it!) - but then I thought about a B5 S4. Trouble is, really, this car needs to be semi reliable, so on the fence about the S4.
Anyway, this lead me back to the urS4/S6.
I don't really know a great deal about these, other than having the lovely 5 pot Turbo, looking nice yet subtle, and being an early Audi, would assume are reasonably well built and specced.
Other than that - I know very little.
Are they a viable car for daily/winter use? Any obvious pitfalls? Are parts still difficult to find? I have looked around the usual places and not seen any for sale currently, but have seen the odd one for aorund £1500 a few months back. Is that a sensible price, or would that be a 'cheap' one?
Any info would be much appreciated
They're old enough to need regular attention and most are cheap enough to have been neglected.
They're also of an age where Audi will either have stopped making bits, run out of them or both.
I don't know any model specific forums for those cars but join as many forums as you can (SRS, RS246, Audi sport, S2 forum etc.) and keep a very close eye on the for sale sections. You might get lucky and find a genuine enthusiast parting with one. The basic mechanicals of these cars are very strong and a lot were tuned but when you're talking about something nearing 20 years old simple wear becomes an issue.
They're also of an age where Audi will either have stopped making bits, run out of them or both.
I don't know any model specific forums for those cars but join as many forums as you can (SRS, RS246, Audi sport, S2 forum etc.) and keep a very close eye on the for sale sections. You might get lucky and find a genuine enthusiast parting with one. The basic mechanicals of these cars are very strong and a lot were tuned but when you're talking about something nearing 20 years old simple wear becomes an issue.
Thanks for that Dr G. I'm a member on SRS as posted a bit over there when I was looking for a B5 S4.
I have looked on a classic audi forum, but not seen many recent posts with regard them.
As you say, probably best to just keep my eyes open and see what comes up. Just another retro Q car that caught my attention!!
I have looked on a classic audi forum, but not seen many recent posts with regard them.
As you say, probably best to just keep my eyes open and see what comes up. Just another retro Q car that caught my attention!!
They are both extremely rare these days - I saw one at Goodwood a couple of years ago, and a cooking version in Bristol last weekend that'd seen some action!
You will find it much easier to find a B5 S4 and in parts terms probably much easier going too. The S4 doesn't have to be unreliable - find a loved one that hasn't been pushed to mega power, so you're not constantly looking for boost leaks, and preferably one that's had refurbished turbos in the past. Assuming it hasn't been ragged its whole life it should be fine - good quality tyres and a lot of receipts for suspension joints are all good signs Bodywork usually holds up well too.
You will find it much easier to find a B5 S4 and in parts terms probably much easier going too. The S4 doesn't have to be unreliable - find a loved one that hasn't been pushed to mega power, so you're not constantly looking for boost leaks, and preferably one that's had refurbished turbos in the past. Assuming it hasn't been ragged its whole life it should be fine - good quality tyres and a lot of receipts for suspension joints are all good signs
Bodywork usually holds up well too.There are a couple of us on here who have big experience with these cars. I did 155,000 miles or so in mine and loved every minute (except when the clutch linkage broke). These cars have a unique character which you either 'get' or you don't. I loved mine (L924NNH) and miss it greatly.
Here is some insight based on long experience.
1 Avoid the auto - they are slow.
2 Avoid the early urS4 - gearbox issues unless fixed with later gearbox. Also early cars have wacky 'UFO' brakes which warp.
3 The clutch mechanism, either linkage or the pedal box, usually disintigrates at around 117,000 miles.
4 Coil packs and ignition stages (IIRC) go at around 150,000 miles and are expensive.
5 Tailgates get rattly and are fiddly to adjust.
Now, having got all that out of the way, I think they are massively under-rated cars and sadly being depleted by guys who rip out their innards to put in urQuattros and other lesser cars. They're fast cars in the first place (it's often suggested that Audi deliberately understated the power figures so as not to confuse the range line-up) and even a simple remap can liven things up to almost RS2 levels. All things cost however and such remaps reduce life of, for example, the coil packs. Compared to the C5 and later generation cars they're quite light, so the power counts more. I certainly also found my urS4 more nimble feeling that the RS6 I briefly drove.
The steering feel is useless until you get used to a thumb and forefinger light touch, but the handling particularly in the estate which has a rear anti-roll bar, is good. The grip is amazing, of course. Headlamps are not really up to the performance.
Engine-wise, being turbos, there are lots of little valves and wotnot that can let you down, and are a fiddle diagnose and then locate and fix. There is one particular hose, the 'Michelin Man' hose, which tears and loses you boost. Cylinder heads are good, I understand, for the low 200,000 miles but probably go on beyond that in a mildly cracked state. The basic engine is, of course, unburstable as is the transmission generally (except those early 'narrow first' gearboxes.
Any other questions I'm happy to answer.
Here is some insight based on long experience.
1 Avoid the auto - they are slow.
2 Avoid the early urS4 - gearbox issues unless fixed with later gearbox. Also early cars have wacky 'UFO' brakes which warp.
3 The clutch mechanism, either linkage or the pedal box, usually disintigrates at around 117,000 miles.
4 Coil packs and ignition stages (IIRC) go at around 150,000 miles and are expensive.
5 Tailgates get rattly and are fiddly to adjust.
Now, having got all that out of the way, I think they are massively under-rated cars and sadly being depleted by guys who rip out their innards to put in urQuattros and other lesser cars. They're fast cars in the first place (it's often suggested that Audi deliberately understated the power figures so as not to confuse the range line-up) and even a simple remap can liven things up to almost RS2 levels. All things cost however and such remaps reduce life of, for example, the coil packs. Compared to the C5 and later generation cars they're quite light, so the power counts more. I certainly also found my urS4 more nimble feeling that the RS6 I briefly drove.
The steering feel is useless until you get used to a thumb and forefinger light touch, but the handling particularly in the estate which has a rear anti-roll bar, is good. The grip is amazing, of course. Headlamps are not really up to the performance.
Engine-wise, being turbos, there are lots of little valves and wotnot that can let you down, and are a fiddle diagnose and then locate and fix. There is one particular hose, the 'Michelin Man' hose, which tears and loses you boost. Cylinder heads are good, I understand, for the low 200,000 miles but probably go on beyond that in a mildly cracked state. The basic engine is, of course, unburstable as is the transmission generally (except those early 'narrow first' gearboxes.
Any other questions I'm happy to answer.
Thanks for the info Yertis - that's great
I had started to look at B5 S4's again, but prices are still all over the price for them. There was a local one that looked nice, and would have been very tempting had my 944 have been sold, but it has now sold - so the temptation has been removed, lol!
s2boy4 - would certainly be interested in hearing some more
I had started to look at B5 S4's again, but prices are still all over the price for them. There was a local one that looked nice, and would have been very tempting had my 944 have been sold, but it has now sold - so the temptation has been removed, lol!
s2boy4 - would certainly be interested in hearing some more
Going to have a chat with Shaun about his S6 tomorrow, but in the meantime I have a few more general questions if anyone can help?
I've seen a few mentions of rust in these cars, is it generally cosmetic or do they have any weak points for structural corrosion?
With respect to parts that are NLA - is there anything specific that is often a known/common problem? If so, what are the options - breakers?
How does the general quality/spec of an Audi A6/S6 of that era compare to say an E34, Volvo 850, w124? I know current day Audi's are battling it out with BMW & Mercedes, but how were they back then?
As an example, I have had two '96 850's, a T5 CD and an R - both were well specced, nicely put together and good quality trim/interior. Can I expect something similar?
I've seen a few mentions of rust in these cars, is it generally cosmetic or do they have any weak points for structural corrosion?
With respect to parts that are NLA - is there anything specific that is often a known/common problem? If so, what are the options - breakers?
How does the general quality/spec of an Audi A6/S6 of that era compare to say an E34, Volvo 850, w124? I know current day Audi's are battling it out with BMW & Mercedes, but how were they back then?
As an example, I have had two '96 850's, a T5 CD and an R - both were well specced, nicely put together and good quality trim/interior. Can I expect something similar?
Hallsy01 said:
Going to have a chat with Shaun about his S6 tomorrow, but in the meantime I have a few more general questions if anyone can help?
I've seen a few mentions of rust in these cars, is it generally cosmetic or do they have any weak points for structural corrosion?
With respect to parts that are NLA - is there anything specific that is often a known/common problem? If so, what are the options - breakers?
How does the general quality/spec of an Audi A6/S6 of that era compare to say an E34, Volvo 850, w124? I know current day Audi's are battling it out with BMW & Mercedes, but how were they back then?
As an example, I have had two '96 850's, a T5 CD and an R - both were well specced, nicely put together and good quality trim/interior. Can I expect something similar?
I never had any problem with rust at all, surprised to read this actually but I haven't had mine for seven years now. There was some very trivial surface corrosion appearing in a couple of places on the sills when I let mine go but barely worth mentioning to be honest.I've seen a few mentions of rust in these cars, is it generally cosmetic or do they have any weak points for structural corrosion?
With respect to parts that are NLA - is there anything specific that is often a known/common problem? If so, what are the options - breakers?
How does the general quality/spec of an Audi A6/S6 of that era compare to say an E34, Volvo 850, w124? I know current day Audi's are battling it out with BMW & Mercedes, but how were they back then?
As an example, I have had two '96 850's, a T5 CD and an R - both were well specced, nicely put together and good quality trim/interior. Can I expect something similar?
I'm afraid I don't know what parts are NLA now. I had a problem getting an A/C rad after mine was damaged – Audi lent me a brand new A6 while they made some more. That was in 1999 though. Audi aren't great at supporting their older models, as is well known. Although they're trying a bit harder more recently it's fair to say. Classic Audi forum is probably the best place to hang out and ask for bits or info these days by the way.
But you won't find anything to grumble about with regard build quality I assure you. Audi definitely better than contemporary BMW IMO, esp with regard cabin quality.
I still run a stock 1996 urS6 and have little trouble finding parts - it is still very reliable. The only problems I've had are simple age related things such as corroded fuel/brake lines, MAF, struts, shocks, driver's window motor, etc. Most items (like radiators, light clusters) are still available from non-OEM suppliers.
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