Golf GTi Mk5 vs Mk6 - prices converging?

Golf GTi Mk5 vs Mk6 - prices converging?

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Discussion

Naldrett

Original Poster:

154 posts

146 months

Wednesday 12th August 2015
quotequote all
I'm in the market for a rapid 5dr hatch for around £10k and have narrowed the choice down to Focus ST and Golf GTi.

I was thinking initially of a Mk5 GTi - I have later years in mind (2008/9) as I figured that they are less likely to be affected by the rust issues that seem to plague the older cars, and I believe it is easier to retrofit satnav to these cars (not many seem to have it already optioned). Mileage less of an issue than regular (ideally annual) servicing at VW or good specialist. Not really interested in Edition 30s / Pirelli's due to the apparently overly firm suspension (and they command quite a premium despite being quite numerous).

However, I have noticed that standard Mk5 GTi prices seem to be holding firm at around £6-8k depending on age / mileage - and they seem to be moving for these prices too. Whilst at the same time, the prices of Mk6's seem to me to be softening and not now that much more expensive for similar spec (and obviously newer). Am I right?

Is this because of the engine concerns surrounding the Mk6? If so, is it really that big an issue in reality or just a small percentage causing a lot of noise online?

Has anyone had both? Is it worth an extra £2-3k to stretch to a Mk6?

I much prefer the interior looks of the Mk6, even if from the outside I find it a little fussy compared with the Mk5 which I think has aged very well.

Any thoughts?

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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Glad you've asked this as I've been looking at both MK5 and MK6 GTIs recently as a perfect all-round hot hatch. I have not owned or drove any i'm afraid so i'm not really answering your questions directly. But here's my 2p on the matter.

To me, the MK5's still generally look quite fresh if they're in good nick and not chavved up to their eyeballs. I can't get on with the horrible plastic rear bumpers, they'd have to go straight away for me. The rest of the exterior is nice enough and I've got no real quibbles with the interior worth mentioning.

The only thing putting me off is the various amount of issues they seem to have. Everyone i know who has had one has spent a fortune on repairs and fixes and ended up being a complete money pit. I know they're getting on a bit now but just seems like the quality on these is not typical VW. For me it kinda defeats the object in getting one in the first place.

The MK6 is the best looking GTI out IMO. Don't see many on the roads, i prefer the exhaust set up and it just looks end feels more expensive inside and out. The interior is pretty much the same as my current Scirocco. No cambelts to worry about, although i know the main common issue with these is the cam chain failing which could end up being fatal. I think it's more of a quality VW product as it should be.

I'd probably spend that little bit more and go for a MK6. Even if it's a bit more high mileage i just think you're getting more for your money. For peace of mind you could get the timing chain replaced. It seems a bit hit and miss on the failures, some have had it happen, others haven't. I'm waiting for these to get a bit cheaper and then i'll potentially be biting the bullet i think.

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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culpz said:
Glad you've asked this as I've been looking at both MK5 and MK6 GTIs recently as a perfect all-round hot hatch. I have not owned or drove any i'm afraid so i'm not really answering your questions directly. But here's my 2p on the matter.

To me, the MK5's still generally look quite fresh if they're in good nick and not chavved up to their eyeballs. I can't get on with the horrible plastic rear bumpers, they'd have to go straight away for me. The rest of the exterior is nice enough and I've got no real quibbles with the interior worth mentioning.

The only thing putting me off is the various amount of issues they seem to have. Everyone i know who has had one has spent a fortune on repairs and fixes and ended up being a complete money pit. I know they're getting on a bit now but just seems like the quality on these is not typical VW. For me it kinda defeats the object in getting one in the first place.

The MK6 is the best looking GTI out IMO. Don't see many on the roads, i prefer the exhaust set up and it just looks end feels more expensive inside and out. The interior is pretty much the same as my current Scirocco. No cambelts to worry about, although i know the main common issue with these is the cam chain failing which could end up being fatal. I think it's more of a quality VW product as it should be.

I'd probably spend that little bit more and go for a MK6. Even if it's a bit more high mileage i just think you're getting more for your money. For peace of mind you could get the timing chain replaced. It seems a bit hit and miss on the failures, some have had it happen, others haven't. I'm waiting for these to get a bit cheaper and then i'll potentially be biting the bullet i think.
Do you know how much a new timing chain is? I do like the MK6 for the reasons you have said.

I ran a MK5 GTI a few years ago. The main issues I had were worn suspension bushes and a knackered A/C compressor. I wish I'd kept it :sad:


culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Maracus said:
Do you know how much a new timing chain is? I do like the MK6 for the reasons you have said.

I ran a MK5 GTI a few years ago. The main issues I had were worn suspension bushes and a knackered A/C compressor. I wish I'd kept it :sad:
I know they're not cheap all-in including fitting and labor etc but it'll be a lot more inexpensive than if it snaps and takes most of the engine with it. From the forums i read you can replace it with some sort of uprated or aftermarket one that no-one has had any failures with as of yet.

Glad to hear you had a fairly reliable one. I hate talking about reliability on any car because it's all subjective. I just get put off with the people i know that have had nothing but issues. You could get that with any car though, new or old.

How come you got rid?

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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culpz said:
How come you got rid?
I changed job and it was cheaper and easier to get the train (into Central Birmingham). It was well spec'd with factory Xenons, heated seats, cruise.

I'd definitely consider a MK5 or more probably a MK6 GTI again, it's the A/C compressor on the 5 and the timing chain on the 6 that seem to be the biggest issues. As well as the odd rusting arch on the MK5, mine was 100% ok at 7 years old.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Maracus said:
I changed job and it was cheaper and easier to get the train (into Central Birmingham). It was well spec'd with factory Xenons, heated seats, cruise.

I'd definitely consider a MK5 or more probably a MK6 GTI again, it's the A/C compressor on the 5 and the timing chain on the 6 that seem to be the biggest issues. As well as the odd rusting arch on the MK5, mine was 100% ok at 7 years old.
Fair enough mate. In all fairness at least most of the issues with the MK5 seem to be easily enough rectified and probably won't cost the earth. The timing chain on the MK6 is a big one and much more serious.

Maybe i'm completely wrong and it would be more worthwhile getting a newer reg MK5. I'm not very good at this advice stuff am i laugh

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
culpz said:
Fair enough mate. In all fairness at least most of the issues with the MK5 seem to be easily enough rectified and probably won't cost the earth. The timing chain on the MK6 is a big one and much more serious.

Maybe i'm completely wrong and it would be more worthwhile getting a newer reg MK5. I'm not very good at this advice stuff am i laugh
I think a lower miler, late MK5 with factory xenons would be the way to go.

zainster

440 posts

175 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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I recently had to make a choice for a new car and initially wanted an edition 30 but in the end opted for the standard gti with dsg.

I've done over 1.5k miles of driving in it, in the month I've had it and it's been faultless.

I think I'd of had to spend £5k plus to have got a similar spec and mileage mk6 gti and for me it wasn't worth it.

va1o

16,029 posts

206 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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For £10k I'd take the Mk6. It feels a lot more modern and will stand the test of time better. Trade off is the early cars are prone to timing chain issues.

Mk5 GTI used values have remained very static for the past 2-3 years as owners are reluctant to let them go for anything less than £4 - 5k. Mk6 values have significantly dropped during the same period due to the release of the Mk7 GTI.

aka_kerrly

12,415 posts

209 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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va1o said:
Mk5 GTI used values have remained very static for the past 2-3 years as owners are reluctant to let them go for anything less than £4 - 5k..
I does seem odd, the gap between a alright mk4 and mk5 is huge!!

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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Focus ST.

Drive one and I doubt you will prefer the Golf.

DrainTheSpuds

367 posts

180 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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I've had a MK6 GTI for over 4 years and it's a great piece of kit with almost no downsides. The interior quality is much improved over the MK5 and many of the exterior details are fresher too, particularly the rear diffuser/exhaust arrangement. The MK5 is still a nice car and very sought after, hence the strong values, but I'd personally pay the extra and have the later model.

The chain tensioner failure mostly affects 2009/2010-built cars. The part that fails has been revised several times by Volkswagen and I've not heard of any problems with these later versions. I had my tensioner changed for the latest version at just over 30,000 miles and added a new chain and guides for good measure. You'll probably pay sub £500 for this work at an independent, or more than that at a Volkswagen dealer - much cheaper than a new engine, which is the only solution if the tensioner lets go. Ideally, try and find a car that's already had the work done by the previous owner.

va1o

16,029 posts

206 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
va1o said:
Mk5 GTI used values have remained very static for the past 2-3 years as owners are reluctant to let them go for anything less than £4 - 5k..
I does seem odd, the gap between a alright mk4 and mk5 is huge!!
Agreed! And the gap between a Mk3 and Mk4 is very little tongue out
Prices then start to go back up for the classic GTIs with a Mk2 costing more than a Mk4, and Mk1 the same as a Mk5!

Will be interesting to see how long the Mk5 GTI is able to retain such a high value. Its similar to what's happened with the BMW E46 M3 as that has refused to drop below the £5k mark for past few years.

Maracus

4,227 posts

167 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
DrainTheSpuds said:
I've had a MK6 GTI for over 4 years and it's a great piece of kit with almost no downsides. The interior quality is much improved over the MK5 and many of the exterior details are fresher too, particularly the rear diffuser/exhaust arrangement. The MK5 is still a nice car and very sought after, hence the strong values, but I'd personally pay the extra and have the later model.

The chain tensioner failure mostly affects 2009/2010-built cars. The part that fails has been revised several times by Volkswagen and I've not heard of any problems with these later versions. I had my tensioner changed for the latest version at just over 30,000 miles and added a new chain and guides for good measure. You'll probably pay sub £500 for this work at an independent, or more than that at a Volkswagen dealer - much cheaper than a new engine, which is the only solution if the tensioner lets go. Ideally, try and find a car that's already had the work done by the previous owner.
Good to hear that from a MK6 owner re the tensioner I agree the interior is a step forward, the MK5 can be a bit rattley, although mine was ok.

I found it economical enough to use my MK5 as a daily for 18 months, it'd see 40mpg pretty easily on my 120 mile round trip commute, a mix of A road, dual carriageway and motorway. What's the MK6 like, the figures look 10% better?

dontfollowme

1,158 posts

232 months

Friday 14th August 2015
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I remember thinking I will have to have a MK5 GTI at some point. I still remember the original advert:

https://youtu.be/_hj86TnXpgE

Whenever I look for one even the 05s command strong money for what is a ten year old car. The nice ones on the specialist forums are even richer.

the-photographer

3,479 posts

175 months

Saturday 15th August 2015
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Naldrett said:
I'm in the market for a rapid 5dr hatch for around £10k and have narrowed the choice down to Focus ST and Golf GTi.

I was thinking initially of a Mk5 GTi - I have later years in mind (2008/9) as I figured that they are less likely to be affected by the rust issues that seem to plague the older cars, and I believe it is easier to retrofit satnav to these cars (not many seem to have it already optioned). Mileage less of an issue than regular (ideally annual) servicing at VW or good specialist. Not really interested in Edition 30s / Pirelli's due to the apparently overly firm suspension (and they command quite a premium despite being quite numerous).

However, I have noticed that standard Mk5 GTi prices seem to be holding firm at around £6-8k depending on age / mileage - and they seem to be moving for these prices too. Whilst at the same time, the prices of Mk6's seem to me to be softening and not now that much more expensive for similar spec (and obviously newer). Am I right?

Is this because of the engine concerns surrounding the Mk6? If so, is it really that big an issue in reality or just a small percentage causing a lot of noise online?

Has anyone had both? Is it worth an extra £2-3k to stretch to a Mk6?

I much prefer the interior looks of the Mk6, even if from the outside I find it a little fussy compared with the Mk5 which I think has aged very well.

Any thoughts?
I have driven the MK5 for 60,000+ miles, MK6/MK7 both for 2000-ish miles;

  • MK5 rust, buy on condition. The later ones will less effected simpler because they are newer, the wing problem can be fixed before it shows.
  • MK5 satnav, later models have a newer CANBUS controller, older models will need a replacement (£50) to stop the battery draining. Note fitting OEM DAB can be done, but its a right pain to replace the aerial.
  • ED30 cars have identical suspension right down to the part numbers in ETKA
  • MK6 cars in your budget will need the tensioner replaced, see posts above for price (or ensure its been done).
I didn't like the MK6 wastegate rattle, but this is now fixed, can owners confirm the clip completely stops the metallic buzzing? Otherwise it is more refined at the expense of some steering feel.

There is plenty of choice, drive both and see what you think.

You can find the odd MK5 at dealers, http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/Golf-GTI/GTD/R/2....

Edited by the-photographer on Saturday 15th August 18:48

DrainTheSpuds

367 posts

180 months

Saturday 15th August 2015
quotequote all
Maracus said:
I found it economical enough to use my MK5 as a daily for 18 months, it'd see 40mpg pretty easily on my 120 mile round trip commute, a mix of A road, dual carriageway and motorway. What's the MK6 like, the figures look 10% better?
Much the same. It never drops below 35mpg and on a run it can exceed 40.

the-photographer said:
I didn't like the MK6 wastegate rattle, but this is now fixed, can owners confirm the clip completely stops the metallic buzzing?
Yes, it stops it completely. I had mine done under warranty at the first service and haven't given it another thought since. Most cars will have had it done by now. If it hasn't (you'll hear a metallic rattle between 2-3000rpm - sounds like a vibrating heat shield) then the part is a few quid and there's a DIY video on YouTube. Compared to the tensioner, it's a minor issue.

rongagin

481 posts

135 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
DrainTheSpuds said:
The chain tensioner failure mostly affects 2009/2010-built cars. The part that fails has been revised several times by Volkswagen and I've not heard of any problems with these later versions. I had my tensioner changed for the latest version at just over 30,000 miles and added a new chain and guides for good measure. You'll probably pay sub £500 for this work at an independent, or more than that at a Volkswagen dealer - much cheaper than a new engine, which is the only solution if the tensioner lets go. Ideally, try and find a car that's already had the work done by the previous owner.
My son has a Mk6 and he had the tensioner changed (by indie) to the latest, there have been a few revisions so ensure you get the best, which isn't a straight forward job, quite a bit of dismantling. The parts are not too expensive but the labour adds a few hours.
But he was prepared to pay to get the peace of mind it gives.
He loves it and I am impressed with the finish inside.

edit to add: I think it isn't snapped chains to worry about, it is lack of tension (often on start up) which gives a 'jumped' tooth effect on the sprocket

Edited by rongagin on Sunday 16th August 15:39

Naldrett

Original Poster:

154 posts

146 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
"D30 cars have identical suspension right down to the part numbers in ETKA"

I didn't realise this - most reviews seem to slate the harsh ride - but I guess then that is just the effect of the 18s standard on the Ed30 but an option on the regular GTi.


"You can find the odd MK5 at dealers, http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/Golf-GTI/GTD/R/2....

Yes I saw that one (though I am after a 5dr). Looks nice but 12k?

the-photographer

3,479 posts

175 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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Naldrett said:
"D30 cars have identical suspension right down to the part numbers in ETKA"

I didn't realise this - most reviews seem to slate the harsh ride - but I guess then that is just the effect of the 18s standard on the Ed30 but an option on the regular GTi.


"You can find the odd MK5 at dealers, http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/Golf-GTI/GTD/R/2....

Yes I saw that one (though I am after a 5dr). Looks nice but 12k?
Try any normal GTI with 18" wheels, an ED30 will feel the same.

If it helps I can list the preventative maintenance I have just carried out on a newly acquired 2006 GTI.