Seat Leon Cupra cam belt woes

Seat Leon Cupra cam belt woes

Author
Discussion

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
Hi all
I bought a lovely Seat Leon mk2 Cupra about 4 months back. Full service history and 28k miles perfect, I thought.
However, no cam belt change yet - 2010 car meant 5 years old and despite being low mileage, I asked for the cam belt to be done before I bought it. The car dealer sent the car to Seat and it was done.
So 4 months and around 4,000 miles later, the cam belt has failed. Not snapped, but timing is completely out and engine sounds like a bag of nails.
When it happened I was just pootling along so I declutched and switched off.

Here's the question. What would you say my position is with Seat when I call them tomorrow?

I propose taking the car to an independent specialist to assess the damage then ask Seat to pay for the assessment, any work (rebuild or otherwise) plus I need a car to use while that's happening.....

Does this sound reasonable??

Thanks
Kai

DuraAce

4,240 posts

159 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
(cynic mode) was it really changed by them?any invoices to back up the work done?

What was changed? Just the belt? Or all the rollers and tensioner? Which piece has failed?

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
I guess it depends on why it failed. if it wasn't the belt itself, a pulley or something they may deny all knowledge and say it wasn't their fault.

C. Grimsley

1,364 posts

194 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
I think the best option is to take it to them directly, if you take it elsewhere they won't cover the costs should it be a fault of there's. It's like a warranty issue etc, you have to give them a chance to put it right.

Carl

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
Cheers all

So yes I have the dealer stamp and invoice for the cam belt change so I'm pretty sure it was done.

I can't take the car to them as 1) it won't even start 2) the Seat dealership is about 100 miles away from me 3) if I give it to them first, the cynic in me says they will find anything else so as NOT to have to pay..... An independent will at least tell me straight, right?

Hope that makes sense

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
Take it to your local Seat dealer.

If a genuine Seat part, fitted by a Seat dealer, has failed within the warranty period any Seat dealer should be able to sort it as a parts claim which should include the labour.

Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure about this as I have never worked at a Seat dealer BUT I did spend 25 years in various other franchise dealers and this was certainly the case in all of them.

DuraAce

4,240 posts

159 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
kaivaksdal said:
Cheers all

So yes I have the dealer stamp and invoice for the cam belt change so I'm pretty sure it was done.

I can't take the car to them as 1) it won't even start 2) the Seat dealership is about 100 miles away from me 3) if I give it to them first, the cynic in me says they will find anything else so as NOT to have to pay..... An independent will at least tell me straight, right?

Hope that makes sense
Depends what has failed though doesnt it? Were all the rollers/tensioner/water pump changed at the same time as the belt?

if they weren't, and they've failed then SEAT wont be interested unless you're paying them.

I'd contact your nearest SEAT dealer to see about a warranty claim on the new parts fitted.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
Thanks again
The dealers have comfirmed that IF it is any of the cam belt, water pump, tensioners etc that has failed then they will pay for the repairs. However, if it is anything else, anything at all, then theye will not.
This is why I'm paying an independant to verify, photograph and log everything that has occurred.
I'll let you know as it happens....
Kai

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
If you do that the dealer won't be interested. They will only entertain a possible claim if you present the vehicle as is. You get it stripped by any independent they will tell you to jog on.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
I thought that mate but I told them what I was doing and they agreed it's well within my rights to get an independent to look at it. Using that information, they will happily take it if it turns out it's their fault.
Fingers crossed.

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
Maybe so, but remember the dealer does not pay the claim, they assess the situation, and compile a list of required parts, apply the relevant labour time, report on the cause, and pass this to the manufacturer for authorisation.

Even if they agree to it that may not be the end of it, they may well request the alleged failed item returned to them for inspection and testing. Not unheard of for them to subsequently reject the claim if anything is not 100%.

Now, in your case you, potentially, have a wrecked engine if pistons have hit valves. This claim could quite easily run into thousands of pounds. The bigger the claim the more likely the manufacturer will dig deep into the details, they may even despatch someone from their Warranty dept to view it.

I repeat, do not allow an independent to strip it. No manufacturer, that I've ever been involved with and that's Nissan, Ford, Subaru, Renault and Peugeot, would entertain it. Part of the procedure in assessing any warranty claim is diagnosing the fault in house by a Master Tech or whatever title the franchise gives them. You present them with a dismantled engine this is not possible.

Seat/VW may be different but I seriously doubt it. All sorts of shenanigans would be possible if manufacturers took the word of independents. Substitution of parts being the most obvious.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Thanks again. I hear you.
The independent is only going to assess the damage, not strip it all down and fix anything so hopefully this is a happy half way house.
I'll let you know and appreciate your advice here.

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
As others have said, take it to a Seat main dealer, ideally the one who changed the cambelt. Taking it elsewhere first will slow the repair and complicate it.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Saturday 5th December 2015
quotequote all
So here's the next chapter:
The car is now back with the Dealership that originally fitted the cam belt, kit and water pump.
The wouldn't fetch it, so I've had to pay the AA 250 quid to take it to them.
The dealership has looked at it and say (quote) " something must have got into the cam belt area - like a stone or piece of metal- and damahed the belt and tensioners..."

This has caused the belt to jump 6 teeth, tear the edge of the belt and remove all tension from the tensioners. They claim that they put a new belt on and the car runs fine with no damage to head or valves.

I have NEVER heard of something getting into the cam belt area, breaking stuff and then disappearing after the event.

The dealership won't pay anything. Apparently this does not come under warranty as a foreign object is not their fault.

They want 450 for another new cam belt, kit and water pump and cannot give any guarantee that the car will be ok or not - "it might be fine..."

I've asked Seat UK fir help, the AA (who originally recovered the car) and have an independent report that says the damage was most likely caused by over tightening of the cam belt.

I am not to blame and can't / won't pay for this damage and DO NOT want a performance car that "might be ok"....

Any advice gratefully received.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 5th December 2015
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the cambelt should be protected by a plastic casing.

i would 'pay under protest' then sue them for all costs. there explanation will be there downfall.

but best place to ask is law section here

bearman68

4,643 posts

131 months

Saturday 5th December 2015
quotequote all
Hi. Firstly sorry for you woes.
I think it's unlikely the belt was over tensioned. You would hear this as a thrum-ing sound when the engine was running. My gut feel is that the tensioner has not been correctly located into the tensioning slot, and has worked out with time. Almost certainly a fitting error.
It is possible that something gets into the cam belt housing. Normally it's the auxiliary belt or parts from it. In all the ones I've ever seen, there is massive damage to the cam belt covers, and the source is pretty obvious. In which case they will be happy to bill you for the parts, and show you the old covers.
It's impossible for something sizeable to get into the cam belt without damage to the covers.

I would personally suspect they are stringing you along for a ride after making a mistake.

If the compression in the cylinders is OK, the engine will be OK, so don't worry too much about that (my view).

Best of luck OP.

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Saturday 5th December 2015
quotequote all
Interesting, likewise I`ve never heard of that happening, if the belt covers are intact and correctly fitted nothing that can do that sort of damage should be able to ingress. IMO you're being mugged off.

In your shoes I would demand all the failed parts back, pay the bill under duress and remove the car from the dealership. (Each day you leave it there could incur storage charges).

And then fight them from every angle you can, Dealer Principal, Head Office, Seat UK and ultimately go legal. (This may be tricky if you didn't pay them for the original job).




kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Saturday 5th December 2015
quotequote all
Thanks again fellow ph's

I am waiting for Seat UK to come back to me - they don't work weekends!
AA legal team said to write to the dealership and explain that I have independent advice and reports and that I am giving them one final chance to make right. If they do not, I will be taking the car back, getting it fixed at an independent garage local to me and taking this legal.

Not only do I have to think about getting the car fixed now but I'll always be worrying that it may never be 100% again. Lastly, every day without my car is costing me in public transport and just sheer "pain in the but not having a car".

I need to wAit til Monday morning to hear from Sear UK then get writing.

In the background, I spoke with my local Seat dealer who said that they have never heard of a foreign body getting in and damaging the cam belt and tensioners in over 10 years so I think that puts that to bed.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Tuesday 8th December 2015
quotequote all
SEAT UK got involved yesterday and are looking through the photographic evidence to make a decision.
The way I see it, either:
A) The dealer fitted the camblet, water pump and tensioners incorrectly which - over 4,000 miles - wore away the inside of the belt, causing it to slip
OR
B) Seat/VW have designed a car which allows large stones/pieces of metal into the cambelt area which caused the failure
OR
C) Some other parts in there were faulty when fitted or from new and should not have faileed

One way or another, I am over £500 down in personal expenses and my car still isn't fixed.

Let's see what Seat UK say later today.

kaivaksdal

Original Poster:

144 posts

229 months

Thursday 10th December 2015
quotequote all
Following on from some heated discussions and the threat of legal action, the dealership and Seat UK have gone 50/50 to repair the car. I'll be collecting it tomorrow.
I just hope that there is no long lasting damage to valves or head that don't show themselves until later on.....
Thanks for everyone's input on this.
Fingers Crossed
Kai