First time Caterham buyer from an exige
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm not quite sure how or why but Saturday morning I found myself visiting the new Caterham dealership at Donnington Park. Having had my Exige for nearly 3 years my interest into a 7 is growing.
Firstly I wanted just to get a feel for one, having never sat in a 7 before I wasn't sure I would even like it..... Big mistake.
There was only a 360r available when I went but as soon as I clambered in it felt right.
My question really is for what I'm looking for what would suit me best? I thought getting a few ideas from past / current owners would be a good start. r400 /r500/ 360r / 420 etc
I'm looking to use the car mainly as a weekend / nice evening toy with the occasional track session. It would be used by myself an the wife so I think a screen / roof / doors for some protection if we get caught out in the rain. Power wise, this is the unknown. My exige is in the 280bhp area and I do enjoy the sensation of speed you get from that but obviously it weighs more . Body widths, I think I need to sit in a few. with and without the lowered floors. I'm 5"11 and around 12 stone but its more about shoulder widths I think with me.
I don't necessarily want a new one either but I thought it was the best place to start.
Here's the old girl that may get replaced
I'm not quite sure how or why but Saturday morning I found myself visiting the new Caterham dealership at Donnington Park. Having had my Exige for nearly 3 years my interest into a 7 is growing.
Firstly I wanted just to get a feel for one, having never sat in a 7 before I wasn't sure I would even like it..... Big mistake.
There was only a 360r available when I went but as soon as I clambered in it felt right.
My question really is for what I'm looking for what would suit me best? I thought getting a few ideas from past / current owners would be a good start. r400 /r500/ 360r / 420 etc
I'm looking to use the car mainly as a weekend / nice evening toy with the occasional track session. It would be used by myself an the wife so I think a screen / roof / doors for some protection if we get caught out in the rain. Power wise, this is the unknown. My exige is in the 280bhp area and I do enjoy the sensation of speed you get from that but obviously it weighs more . Body widths, I think I need to sit in a few. with and without the lowered floors. I'm 5"11 and around 12 stone but its more about shoulder widths I think with me.
I don't necessarily want a new one either but I thought it was the best place to start.
Here's the old girl that may get replaced
Edited by KieranR on Tuesday 17th May 11:51
IMHO the R400 / R420 superlight is Caterham's 'sweet spot' for a balanced mix of fast road and track driving.
R300 spec is great for both and more than enough for the road but can, especially if you're used to it, lack a bit of outright pace on circuit, albeit it depends where you go as it is a sensational car in the twisties.
R500 spec is possibly a bit too much for the road, (although the 'how much' is entirely modulated by your right foot) and epic on track
The S3 chassis is tight but that's part of its 'dynamic charm,' which makes you feel so connected to the car. Yes, things can feel cramped with a passenger, especially when elbows come in to play but it's something both parties can adjust and get used to. (Not so much of an issue with shoulders) Saying that I've never toured in the car and our evening and weekend blatting 'fixes' tend to last an hour or two tops. For info, I'm 5'11" and weigh an extra stone and a bit and I'm snug in the Tillets although not at all uncomfortable. Footwell space is also at a premium and the pedals will, if you're coming from a road car, likely feel very close together. These can usually be adjusted but I find that wearing suitable narrow footwear, race shoes or boots is pretty important. Plenty of legroom in the passenger side. Finally, it can get a bit warm in the cockpit area due to heat building up in the transmission tunnel and filtering through from the engine but you're usually having way too much fun to notice!
The SV chassis offers more space and comfort and so it then comes down to what you will primarily be using the car for and how it feels for you personally. Again, IMO, the wider chassis does not a lesser track-car make but there are many who prefer the tighter fit of the S3.
Best advice is to try both if you can before 'jumping in' but, once you've been bitten, (and it sounds like you already have), there's no turning back and whatever spec or chassis you go for, you'll be grinning from ear to ear and enjoying life regardless.
Good luck in your search.
Steve
R300 spec is great for both and more than enough for the road but can, especially if you're used to it, lack a bit of outright pace on circuit, albeit it depends where you go as it is a sensational car in the twisties.
R500 spec is possibly a bit too much for the road, (although the 'how much' is entirely modulated by your right foot) and epic on track
The S3 chassis is tight but that's part of its 'dynamic charm,' which makes you feel so connected to the car. Yes, things can feel cramped with a passenger, especially when elbows come in to play but it's something both parties can adjust and get used to. (Not so much of an issue with shoulders) Saying that I've never toured in the car and our evening and weekend blatting 'fixes' tend to last an hour or two tops. For info, I'm 5'11" and weigh an extra stone and a bit and I'm snug in the Tillets although not at all uncomfortable. Footwell space is also at a premium and the pedals will, if you're coming from a road car, likely feel very close together. These can usually be adjusted but I find that wearing suitable narrow footwear, race shoes or boots is pretty important. Plenty of legroom in the passenger side. Finally, it can get a bit warm in the cockpit area due to heat building up in the transmission tunnel and filtering through from the engine but you're usually having way too much fun to notice!
The SV chassis offers more space and comfort and so it then comes down to what you will primarily be using the car for and how it feels for you personally. Again, IMO, the wider chassis does not a lesser track-car make but there are many who prefer the tighter fit of the S3.
Best advice is to try both if you can before 'jumping in' but, once you've been bitten, (and it sounds like you already have), there's no turning back and whatever spec or chassis you go for, you'll be grinning from ear to ear and enjoying life regardless.
Good luck in your search.
Steve
Hi , I think the slight problem you have is your coming from an already very fast car , so I would say you may not find the lower powered caterhams enough , I would aim for the 200 bhp region that would keep you very happy . I bought one a year ago now and it's all true they really are amazing cars , and for 30k you will get a lovely example, I wish I had that much to spend !
Will be watching this thread with interest. I have had 2 Elise's, where I sold the last one over a year ago. I'm looking to buy early next year, same budget as you and I am also looking at R300's and R400's. I do get tempted by the supersports as you get a newer car for around 25k, however my only concern is lack of power on the straights on a trackday.
Mike
Mike
At 6ft1 the lowered floors were very easy for me, the difference between looking through the centre of the screen and almost over the top Noddy style! S3 or S5 was much more tricky, at 16 stone I was still quite happy in the S3 and in fact it felt more special being so snug but the chaps at Caterham were strongly suggesting the SV. Though it was never said I eventually worked it out to be a case of: you're not a small chap, you say you want to buy once and keep forever, you're not likely to get any smaller! 
In the end it was power that swung it for me, the fastest in the shop in my price range was an SV. One thing perhaps to think about is whether you want something with good manners or whether you're happy to drive something a bit 'difficult'. The 270S and 620R were both happy to pootle, but the NA Duratec with throttle bodies isn't the smoothest on a light throttle. I see similar comments about the even higher state of tune in the R500. It could probably be mapped out but still, 'race' engines on the road can be 'characterful'. 
Makes me laugh out loud when I drive it though!
In the end it was power that swung it for me, the fastest in the shop in my price range was an SV. One thing perhaps to think about is whether you want something with good manners or whether you're happy to drive something a bit 'difficult'. The 270S and 620R were both happy to pootle, but the NA Duratec with throttle bodies isn't the smoothest on a light throttle. I see similar comments about the even higher state of tune in the R500. It could probably be mapped out but still, 'race' engines on the road can be 'characterful'. Makes me laugh out loud when I drive it though!Edited by Dave_H34 on Tuesday 17th May 21:45
Mine was modest, 130 bhp. It was still shatteringly fast on road and kept up with bigger variants in the real world of traffic police and speed limits. An R500 is a waste on a road, and a R400 owning friend reckoned mine was a nicer drive on road, especially in town. On track it's another affair but a number of 7 owners believe that you have to be a very expert driver to need much more than 150bhp and actually use it to good effect. Maybe you are an expert, and after a 280 bhp Exige a lower power 7 might feel a bit slow under high speed overtaking conditions.
Would suggest looking at the 420 or R400 D (which is what I have) for that price bracket. S3 I think and not SV unless you are planning on doing lots of touring. At 5 11 you could easily get away with no lowered floors but they may give you a preferred driver position. I have lowere floor driver side but not passenger. If your wife is driving aswell, you need to think about relative heights....ie if she's 5ft 0 (or 6ft 4 !) then adjusting between the 2 of you may be a problem.
Even a lower powered Caterham driven well will be able to keep up with an Exige on a twisty track in the twisty bits but I fear you will miss the straight line acceleration and that feeling of a kick up the backside. As you already know, you can't safely drive a lightweight 200+ BHP car at full chat on the road except for short bursts of overtaking or a quick sprint for a few seconds.
I used to have a 1.6ss (135bhp) and thoroughly enjoyed it for 10 years. Would I go back.....possibly...but I'm sure I'd miss the feeling of acceleration, even if I could chuck the SS around more as it was more forgiving in terms of driver capability...have to be much more careful with the R400 :-)....especially in the wet ! :-0
At Abbeville track day a few years ago I was marginally quicker than a 280 Exige but mainly only due to later braking.....I think as drivers we were evenly matched judging by how things went on the day.
I think the Caterham will give you a much more engaged feeling to the driving experience. Good luck in the hunt for one !
Even a lower powered Caterham driven well will be able to keep up with an Exige on a twisty track in the twisty bits but I fear you will miss the straight line acceleration and that feeling of a kick up the backside. As you already know, you can't safely drive a lightweight 200+ BHP car at full chat on the road except for short bursts of overtaking or a quick sprint for a few seconds.
I used to have a 1.6ss (135bhp) and thoroughly enjoyed it for 10 years. Would I go back.....possibly...but I'm sure I'd miss the feeling of acceleration, even if I could chuck the SS around more as it was more forgiving in terms of driver capability...have to be much more careful with the R400 :-)....especially in the wet ! :-0
At Abbeville track day a few years ago I was marginally quicker than a 280 Exige but mainly only due to later braking.....I think as drivers we were evenly matched judging by how things went on the day.
I think the Caterham will give you a much more engaged feeling to the driving experience. Good luck in the hunt for one !
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 18th May 09:34
I've just changed engine on my Caterham, and gone from 160 to 200bhp. That 40bhp plus more torque makes a big difference 
I can't imagine you'd ever need more than that on the road. Must have's are lowered floor(s), six speed 'box (or modified five speed; first is a joke on the standard five speed) and LSD. For your budget i'd go for a Duratec R400 (or an R500K if you're feeling brave 
)
I can't imagine you'd ever need more than that on the road. Must have's are lowered floor(s), six speed 'box (or modified five speed; first is a joke on the standard five speed) and LSD. For your budget i'd go for a Duratec R400 (or an R500K if you're feeling brave )Edited by ForzaGilles on Wednesday 18th May 09:37
Anything over 160bhp in a Caterham starts to feel pretty rapido on the road.
Note I say feel, because most Caterhams are not actually that fast in real terms (vs say 911 Turbo, R8 V10 Plus, 650S etc etc).
But that's what its all about, the raw feel of speed and not actually going crazy fast but still fast enough for a lot of fun without going to prison.
R300 is where its at IMHO. Great engine, great gearbox, big brakes and a little bit rarer thus easier to sell on later.
Note I say feel, because most Caterhams are not actually that fast in real terms (vs say 911 Turbo, R8 V10 Plus, 650S etc etc).
But that's what its all about, the raw feel of speed and not actually going crazy fast but still fast enough for a lot of fun without going to prison.
R300 is where its at IMHO. Great engine, great gearbox, big brakes and a little bit rarer thus easier to sell on later.
I've recently gone from 170bhp upto 230bhp it probably is too much for the road, but what the hell
I'm just over six feet tall and weigh about 90kg and have an S3 with a lowered floor, it is tight but nothing that can't be lived with and it definitely feels like I'm strapping the whole car on
it probably is too much for the road, but what the hell I'm just over six feet tall and weigh about 90kg and have an S3 with a lowered floor, it is tight but nothing that can't be lived with and it definitely feels like I'm strapping the whole car on
I made the move from an s/c S2 Exige @255bhp to my first Caterham last year. After a lot of soul searching I decided that less is more in a Caterham and went for a Roadsport 1.6k series.
Since then, upgrade-itis has kicked in and now at 150-160bhp I love my 7!
Unless you want to be a winner at track-days I would suggest that around 160 bhp is more than enough for a very enjoyable car on the roads.
Since then, upgrade-itis has kicked in and now at 150-160bhp I love my 7!
Unless you want to be a winner at track-days I would suggest that around 160 bhp is more than enough for a very enjoyable car on the roads.
red_slr said:
Anything over 160bhp in a Caterham starts to feel pretty rapido on the road.
Note I say feel, because most Caterhams are not actually that fast in real terms (vs say 911 Turbo, R8 V10 Plus, 650S etc etc).
But that's what its all about, the raw feel of speed and not actually going crazy fast but still fast enough for a lot of fun without going to prison.
R300 is where its at IMHO. Great engine, great gearbox, big brakes and a little bit rarer thus easier to sell on later.
R300 is about 160bhp, as someone says above this is a sweet spot. These days it doesn't sound like a lot but it certainly feels it. The fancy bits like LSD, fast rack, 6 speed are probably worth more than another 30 bhp. I've not driven a 7 with big brakes. I do know that the standard Triumph Spitfire jobs will pull you up hard enough that you will be out of the seat and hanging off the harnesses, and they don't fade. They do need a good shove of the pedal, perhaps that's where big brakes come in.Note I say feel, because most Caterhams are not actually that fast in real terms (vs say 911 Turbo, R8 V10 Plus, 650S etc etc).
But that's what its all about, the raw feel of speed and not actually going crazy fast but still fast enough for a lot of fun without going to prison.
R300 is where its at IMHO. Great engine, great gearbox, big brakes and a little bit rarer thus easier to sell on later.
I've never enjoyed paying more to insure BHP that you don't use but YMMV. Moar Powaaaar is still MOAR POWAAAAERRRR and that has to be good. Drop a TVR V8 in there, that will sort the men from the boys.
The 1.6 is a sweeter engine than the 2 litre. If you are the sort who wants to ring its neck on the road probably fast enough. A bit lacking on track though. For the track an R300, 360 or 420 are a better bet. A 420 is unnecessarily quick for the road IMO, but it's perfectly tractable and manageable if you restrain your right foot. You could probably put a new 360 on the road for your budget provided you can build it yourself and don't go mad with the extras, but you'd have to go secondhand for a 420 - and there aren't many (any?) around. Bare in mind that there is a long waiting list for new cars.
I've owned a few....200 bhp is the sweet spot, more torque than R300, just enough power combined with flat torque curve to get sideways and no desire to upgrade to more power (which is what you'll want if you move from big bhp Exige).
And be warned...no one gets back the money they spend in upgrades and paradoxically, upgraded cars are harder to sell....
And be warned...no one gets back the money they spend in upgrades and paradoxically, upgraded cars are harder to sell....
Before buying my Caterham last year, I had narrowed my choice down to an Exige or a Caterham. My budget at the time was a bit lower than yours at early 20's and I ended up buying a Caterham 1.6 Sigma Supersport. It has 140bhp and most of the time, it feels fast enough and never fails to put a smile on my face. When I'm on my own it feels great, and I only wish for a bit more power when I have one of my fat mates in the passenger seat! I use mine mainly on the road, but I did do 1 track day at donington last year and have another one booked for June. Even on track if felt good and seemed to pass most other cars with relative ease. I then had a test drive in a new 360r with 182bhp and it actually surprised me that it didn't feel much faster. I drove it back to back with mine on the same roads and you could feel the extra torque and that it was a bit faster, but not much! The 2.0 is about 20kg heavier than the 1.6 so that probably has something to do with it. That made me think that if I was ever to upgrade mine, I think i would possibly go for a 420r. I've not driven a 420r yet but I think that would be quite a bit faster but without having a go, it maybe too fast to fully enjoy it on the road so who knows? I would get down to bookatrack and drive a 360 back to back with a 420 and see what you prefer.
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