Didn't realise VW had gotten so bad

[xjay1337]

Crafty_ said:

VAG group have been going downhill for a long time.

I've two friends in the trade, it must have been about 12 years ago that one moved to Audi. Rarely saw a head off an engine, there wasn't enough work at a major dealership to keep one person busy in the workshop.

Nowadays ? waterlogged ECUs, chocolate piston rings, rattles, poor build quality in general, coked up engines, failing flappy inlet manifolds, flywheels, you name it, its in bits.

The other friend is at Vauxhall. Are the cars fault free ? certainly not, but they haven't got ramps taken up with cars that have engines in bits or thousands of cars on the books all suffering the same manufacturing fault.

I'd suggest that VAG's reputation in the last, say 15 years or so has been more hype and overstatement than fact.

I'm sorry but you haven't named a single issue (other than the TFSI issue which effected a very small number of cars) that is specific to VW.

Many cars get waterlogged ECUs
Most cars also have rattles
Coked up engines are indicative of direct injection which many manufacturers are moving to now
inlet manifold flaps fail on many cars (look at bmw!!!)
dual mass flywheels are problematic for many cars

i would like to add for balance i have a scirocco cr170
it has done 174k
i have tuned it to within an inch of it's life, fitting large turbo, bigger fuel pump and lots of software tweaks.
it's "semi" stripped out in terms of all the carpets are in place but the rear seats have been removed and a false floor fitted.
Aside from an occasional squeak from the seats (Recaro Pole positions have really weird mountings) there are no rattles or clunks or knocks from the suspension or dash trim. Despite being built for trackdays (and getting used and abused as such) it's never broken down, does not use oil or water, and I have absolute faith in it to take me anywhere at any time.

Prior to this I had a Golf GTI Mk5 which was reliable (until I put Air ride on it and made it unreliable, that's my fault)

Prior to that I had a Mk5 Golf TDI which again I had put big turbo and injectors on and that was also reliable and rattle free.

Everyone has a bad story and that's fair enough but I swear some people over exaggerate issues in their head.


I know a few people who own Mk7s and they are very well made at their price point and mostly rattle free.
I am aware some niggly issues on early production run cars but these have been sorted out for the most part.

Maybe people are expecting Bentley quality for Beetle money.....

[Juicetin1]

I had a Mk7 GTI which rattled like crazy from the driver knee airbag and A-pillars, it was so bad and my local dealer could not fix it. I ended up part exchanging for a new Mk7 Golf R, this one too has creaks and rattles from all over the cabin. I am currently driving round with bits of foam and felt wedged in various places, in particular around the hard, creaky plastic around the gear stick and seat belt fixings.
My wife has a 15 plate Golf 1.6 TDI and there are 5 or 6 rattles which have now become unbearable, even for her and it was only recently she told me to "get a grip" when I kept moaning about rattles in my car! Hers is leased and thankfully it is going back at the end of the year.
We're not talking about slight, occasional rattles that can be put up with or silenced with the radio on, these are all major pain in the a**e rattles that are unacceptable.
On another note, my local dealer has now had 3 attempts at updating my MIB2 media system and Sat Nav and every time their computer crashes half-way through. Think I've spent 6 hours now waiting in their service area.

[stargazer30]

Meh, you VW lot complaining of rattles, just don't know you're born. Try running Jap cars! All 3 of my MR2s rattled like crazy but never broke. My current FN2 with its concrete (or complete lack of) suspension tends to shake bits of its trim loose every now and again and rattle. Thankfully the engine is bullet proof though and I have a very loud aftermarket audio system to drown the pesky things out.

[Crafty_]

xjay1337 said:

I'm sorry but you haven't named a single issue (other than the TFSI issue which effected a very small number of cars) that is specific to VW.

A small number of cars ? you've got to be fking joking? there are thousands of cars that were re-engined, or rebuilt due to the oil consumption issues.

Shall we talk about Multitronic transmissions ? TFSI cam chain tensioner failures ? How about the numerous (brand new) cars he works on because they haven't been put together properly - trim (outside and inside) fit, earth points left loose, roof aerials not attached. How about the wiring harnesses routed so tight that they chafe and eventually break ? (rear hatches are a favourite for this). Or the bootlids that don't fit properly and rub the paint off in the aperture ? (offical fix: a sticker, I st you not). How about rusty front wings in Golfs ? Do we want to carry on ?

The summary is that the average Audi isn't the car most people think it is.

And as far as "every car gets waterlogged ECUs", err, no they don't.. said Vauxhall technician hasn't seen one for years..

I can remember said friend appearing at my place clutching several sheets of A4 paper, it was a list of technical issues for the brand new A6, at that time it had been out just a few weeks.

If you seriously think that VW are in any way even slightly better than a Ford, Vauxhall, Hyundai, Kia etc you are deluding yourself.

Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 20th November 17:28

[xjay1337]

A very small number of TFSI cars produced needed a recall.

Again Rusty wings, look at e46 BMWs.

I am still an active member in the TFSI (mk5 gti) community and you rarely hear of any major issues unless people scrimp on maintenance.

[Crafty_]

You just keep telling yourself that.

[xjay1337]

I will!

Every single mechanic will say "X brand is crap" or "Y brand is crap".

I am fully aware of VAG's flaws but unlike you, it seems, don't say "well the brand is rubbish now" because of a few issues on a few cars (which all manufacturers suffer from!)

[ooid]

Just had my first annual service, 15 plate VW Beetle Turbo 2.0 TSI petrol. Great car, no issue at all. Still feels like brand new.

My first car was also mk4 Vw Golf 4 motion. 17 years old, over 100k on the clock, still on original engine and many main components are the same, only usual maintenance schedule. Gave it to my parents now, serving the retirement needs

I think all modern mass-produced contemporary cars sharing the faith of rare "bad luck" with the assembly.

Don't get me started with my Porsche though...

[PixelpeepS3]

Had a 2014 MK7 Golf R for two faultless years. Not a single squeak or rattle from anywhere - brakes were only 30% worn over 20,000 and the only time it needed to go to the garage was for a service.

However the 2016 Audi S3 that i replaced the R with has a really, REALLY annoying squeak coming from the underside of the dash by the steering wheel. I shall start punching the dash in random places once i can localise the noise.

[fatboy b]

Well the car appears to be sorted at last with the new instrument panel, as well as numerous other new bits. It has put us off the brand. VW have most definitely moved down market. Even the staff at the dealers think so as they are dealing with loads more rattle issues with customers, mainly the new Passat, but also Golfs and Tiguans. Looks like cost-down measures started a couple of years back are now being driven around . A real shame, as the car itself is great, but this sort of shabby design and manufacturing isn't going to bring us back.

[Crafty_]

xjay1337 said:

I will!

Every single mechanic will say "X brand is crap" or "Y brand is crap".

I am fully aware of VAG's flaws but unlike you, it seems, don't say "well the brand is rubbish now" because of a few issues on a few cars (which all manufacturers suffer from!)

"A few issues on a few cars"

You keep downplaying it, but I can't make it any clearer than this:
When my friend started at Audi there simply wasn't enough warranty work coming in to a major dealership to keep 1 full time technician employed. Nowadays he and a couple of other guys only ever do warranty, usually aided by pretty much everyone else in the workshop. They all hate warranty work because it makes it difficult to make bonus. They see repeated design and construction failures, simply stuff that isn't fit for purpose. The cars get patched up and sent out again.

You keep chipping in about other brands that I haven't mentioned. Are they worse than other brands ? They are probably better than some, worse than others. Please do understand that VAG are not the shining light of quality, reliability and refinement that you make them out to be.

[ooid]

fatboy b said:

Well the car appears to be sorted at last with the new instrument panel, as well as numerous other new bits. It has put us off the brand. VW have most definitely moved down market. Even the staff at the dealers think so as they are dealing with loads more rattle issues with customers, mainly the new Passat, but also Golfs and Tiguans. Looks like cost-down measures started a couple of years back are now being driven around . A real shame, as the car itself is great, but this sort of shabby design and manufacturing isn't going to bring us back.

Is your built in mexico plant? Just curious.

[xjay1337]

I am simply saying all brands have their faults.

In my experience (personal ownership experience) my 3 vws and my dads octavia have been faultless aside from my own problems with fitting air ride.

I understand not everyone has my views or experience.

I can accept vw have some silly design flaws
So do other manufacturers

Move on

[ooid]

I might be wrong but some models, being built in, let's say "less experienced" factories time to time so some models end up having quite strange issues for new owners. In my experience;

- Golf mk4, 4 motion, 2000 - built in Germany, only code I've seen on the dash in 17 years was "Bitte Tanke"
- Porsche 986, 2000 - Assembly in Finland, one of rare numbers end up there. - Great quality on the body but many engine essentials needed change in my ownership and its 17 years old age due to "sloppy" assembly.
- VW Beetle Turbo 2015 - Not sure, where it is, mexico or germany? I will yet happen to learn hopefully nothing big, even if it's not Germany, I believe VW mexico plants have been building cars for ages anyway.

[Sheepshanks]

Crafty_ said:

"A few issues on a few cars"

You keep downplaying it, but I can't make it any clearer than this:
When my friend started at Audi there simply wasn't enough warranty work coming in to a major dealership to keep 1 full time technician employed. Nowadays he and a couple of other guys only ever do warranty, usually aided by pretty much everyone else in the workshop.

A lot of that is probably technology related, which most manufacturers have issues with, although Audi seem to suffer more than most.

Talking of other marques, and more basic issues, people are rejecting the latest C Class due to wind noise and the GLC due to the AWD system making the front wheels skip sideways on turns.

[fatboy b]

ooid said:

fatboy b said:

Well the car appears to be sorted at last with the new instrument panel, as well as numerous other new bits. It has put us off the brand. VW have most definitely moved down market. Even the staff at the dealers think so as they are dealing with loads more rattle issues with customers, mainly the new Passat, but also Golfs and Tiguans. Looks like cost-down measures started a couple of years back are now being driven around . A real shame, as the car itself is great, but this sort of shabby design and manufacturing isn't going to bring us back.

Is your built in mexico plant? Just curious.

No idea.

[Buster73]

If these rattles were in VW's that were out of warranty would these owners kicking up a fuss be prepared to pay for them to be fixed at the VW dealer ?.

Yes , I didn't think so either.

[ooid]

fatboy b said:

No idea.

If you can check your VIN, (usually door side or front window) I think the first two letters shows which country it was built in. Hopefully, its all sorted soon but yeah its pretty annoying to have a brand new car that keep bringing issues!

[fatboy b]

Buster73 said:

If these rattles were in VW's that were out of warranty would these owners kicking up a fuss be prepared to pay for them to be fixed at the VW dealer ?.

Yes , I didn't think so either.

Your point?

[Buster73]

fatboy b said:

Your point?

My point is clear , some folk make a fuss about relativity minor issues because someone else is picking the bill up , however if they had to pay full price because it is out of warranty they'd not be so keen to have these relatively minor issues resolved at their expense.