Is Quattro worth the increased weight and price?
Discussion
Torsen Quattro is my preferred option - full time 4wd over 2wd that switches to 4wd if blah blah blah.
However I believe as of very soon ALL new quattros will be haldex which is a sad fact.
For those of you who experienced wheelspin in fwd 2.0tdi's I recommend winter tyres - my wife has a Passat and winter tyres fixed the traction problems mentioned by others.
Winter tyres aren't specifically for snow - they are for winter conditions e.g. Cold slimey
Roads where a soft compound, lots of sipes to disperse water/slush/snow, and more sideways water channels give you way more traction than a summer tyre which need temps of 6+C to work and have continual channels around the tyre which provide no bite when a dusting of snow or frost turn up.
However I believe as of very soon ALL new quattros will be haldex which is a sad fact.
For those of you who experienced wheelspin in fwd 2.0tdi's I recommend winter tyres - my wife has a Passat and winter tyres fixed the traction problems mentioned by others.
Winter tyres aren't specifically for snow - they are for winter conditions e.g. Cold slimey
Roads where a soft compound, lots of sipes to disperse water/slush/snow, and more sideways water channels give you way more traction than a summer tyre which need temps of 6+C to work and have continual channels around the tyre which provide no bite when a dusting of snow or frost turn up.
I'm intrigued by you guys who say winter tyres are a better option than quattro. Do you check the weather before every journey then fit tyres accordingly? Most of the year the main advantage is traction and grip on roads wet or dry – the advantage in snow hardly comes into it and I agree that steering and stopping a quattro on snow in summer tyres is no better than any other car similarly equipped. I've been to a few field-based events where summer rain has turned the venue into a quagmire. Quattro had no trouble getting away but everyone with only two powered wheels – or even cheap 4WD alternatives – spinning/stuck/pulled out by the guy with the tractor. Winter tyres would have been bugger-all use in those circumstances.
Sad if true that quattro is going to become a solely Haldex based option. As it is the system has been progressively diluted over the years – IMO the first gen TorSen cars with locking diffs were best in snow, and C5 AllRoad not a patch the early Quattro with two lockable diffs.
Sad if true that quattro is going to become a solely Haldex based option. As it is the system has been progressively diluted over the years – IMO the first gen TorSen cars with locking diffs were best in snow, and C5 AllRoad not a patch the early Quattro with two lockable diffs.
Yertis said:
I'm intrigued by you guys who say winter tyres are a better option than quattro. Do you check the weather before every journey then fit tyres accordingly? Most of the year the main advantage is traction and grip on roads wet or dry – the advantage in snow hardly comes into it and I agree that steering and stopping a quattro on snow in summer tyres is no better than any other car similarly equipped. I've been to a few field-based events where summer rain has turned the venue into a quagmire. Quattro had no trouble getting away but everyone with only two powered wheels – or even cheap 4WD alternatives – spinning/stuck/pulled out by the guy with the tractor. Winter tyres would have been bugger-all use in those circumstances.
Indeed, my driveway is particularly tricky in snowy conditions due to inclination, angle of 'attack' from the (narrow) road, length, surface etc. and my RWD cars have never really managed it. Wife's FWD cars can sometimes do it but not only did my old A3 (Haldex) get up there in 3" of snow on packed ice with (worn) summer tyres, it also managed to pull the Wife's Galaxy up there when it got stuck on the same day, albeit with all 4 wheels spinning on the way up.Yet to experience snow with the S4 and hopefully it will do the business due to it's 'better' AWD despite having wider tyres?, but all this switching between summer/winter tyres malarkey would be a right PITA, especially because any advantage would only be on the odd few days, because whilst (as we are constantly told) winter tyres are not just for snow, do they really make so much difference on a typical English winter day that it is worth the bother, expense and indeed the experience of driving on them on the many days when they're not really necessary?
I've driven cars with snow chains fitted (both FWD and RWD) and they make a huge difference in snow, I doubt conventional winter tyres are as effective in deep snow and anything studded really isn't suited to UK climate with our 1" of snow, once a year that melts in a couple of hours, so I'll take quattro everytime for both winter and summer use.
Winter tyres are also much better in the wet due to the deeper tread.
If you need snow chains for the conditions, winter tyres will probably not help.
Studded tyres help with icy conditions, which we do get, but they can also tear up the road surface. They are not illegal in the UK, but you are only supposed to have them on the car in snowy or icy conditions.
I have Torsen Quattro on my A6, do I specifically need the Quattro, probably not, but I do like a bit of 4 wheel drift occasionally.
It's all about relative traction, in wintery conditions winter tyres are better, for braking and cornering in addition to acceleration (as has been stated).
A 4WD vehicle with Winter tyres is going to be in the best position, but a 2WD car on Winters is probably safer generally getting about that a 4wd car on winters.
Is it worth it, my position would be, depends where you live, north of Manchester or on top of hills. probably, South of that I doubt it.
If you need snow chains for the conditions, winter tyres will probably not help.
Studded tyres help with icy conditions, which we do get, but they can also tear up the road surface. They are not illegal in the UK, but you are only supposed to have them on the car in snowy or icy conditions.
I have Torsen Quattro on my A6, do I specifically need the Quattro, probably not, but I do like a bit of 4 wheel drift occasionally.
It's all about relative traction, in wintery conditions winter tyres are better, for braking and cornering in addition to acceleration (as has been stated).
A 4WD vehicle with Winter tyres is going to be in the best position, but a 2WD car on Winters is probably safer generally getting about that a 4wd car on winters.
Is it worth it, my position would be, depends where you live, north of Manchester or on top of hills. probably, South of that I doubt it.
Hmm, been driving a old 1.8 tq rs for some 2 yrs now..I think that the main problem with appreciating Quattro (TORSEN) is if driven "properly" your cornering speed, front end turn in and drive out of bends is so far removed from ordinary driving it's difficult to 're calibrate your head at times, you keep pushing, it just keeps on getting faster....
Blue62 said:
Quattro is expensive in terms of initial cost, running costs, tyres, fuel, tax and servicing.
Having run a Torsen Quattro in one or other car for over 17 years, I'm struggling to think of a single servicing item or running cost that I had just because it was a Quattro. As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed. Tax? Ditto, if at all. As others have said the winter tyres option doesn't really work as a "oh its snowy. I'll change the tyres before I go to work" solution. FWIW I think its everyday benefits are in the rain and on wet or greasy roads. It doesn't defy physics but it will give you more stability at speed, IMO. And obv rain is not that unusual here!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th January 07:05
Sylvaforever said:
Hmm, been driving a old 1.8 tq rs for some 2 yrs now..I think that the main problem with appreciating Quattro (TORSEN) is if driven "properly" your cornering speed, front end turn in and drive out of bends is so far removed from ordinary driving it's difficult to 're calibrate your head at times, you keep pushing, it just keeps on getting faster....
We don't often agree (ever?) but this is bang on. In the dry the ability to get power down early on an exit from a corner is uncanny, and you can carry a ton of speed into the corner. Of course when it does all go wrong you'll be moving correspondingly faster but for 99% of people on a public road nerves will fail before you have a big off. Some people like a car that adds drama (terror) in fast corners and some people prefer fuss free (dull) speed. Take your choice: it's all down to personal perspective.
Greg66 said:
Blue62 said:
...As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed.
A Torsen Quattro should have all 4 tyres changed at the same time, same compound and tread depth within 1.5-2mm depending on the car.Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05
A 2WD car you should only need to change each axle.
Fuel is because there is additional mechanical drag due to the extra components and the extra weight.
Just t ocounter the expense of running winter tyres argument:
I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
annodomini2 said:
Greg66] said:
...As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed.
A Torsen Quattro should have all 4 tyres changed at the same time, same compound and tread depth within 1.5-2mm depending on the car.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th January 07:05
Kell said:
Just t ocounter the expense of running winter tyres argument:
I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
Exactly I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
We just store the summer tyres in the shed from December to March - they do no miles during that time lol
Meanwhile the winter tyres will last about 4 years of 3/4 months active service per year.
And in the meantime all it has cost is fitting every year.
Greg66 said:
annodomini2 said:
Greg66] said:
...As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed.
A Torsen Quattro should have all 4 tyres changed at the same time, same compound and tread depth within 1.5-2mm depending on the car.Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05
P.S. Same compound loooooool!
When I had the Mk2 TTS I often thought it would be better as just FWD, purely because the quattro system was so front drive bias as it is.
The quattro system has its benefits in wet weather with being able to get the power down cleanly, but for me Audi do FWD better than they do 4WD, so I don't think it's worth the increased price/weight.
Using the TT as an example the FWD version is the sweet spot.
The quattro system has its benefits in wet weather with being able to get the power down cleanly, but for me Audi do FWD better than they do 4WD, so I don't think it's worth the increased price/weight.
Using the TT as an example the FWD version is the sweet spot.
Yertis said:
My dealer was trying to lead me down the S4 road but fuel bills worried me. I got a 3.0Tdi quattro avant with all the trimmings instead, and have to say it's the best car I've owned by miles. Effortless performance (I think 0-60 in about 5.5 or thereabouts I'm not counting) great mid-range, all the other quattro benefits and about 50mpg on a run. It even sounds not to shabby for a diesel.
I was thinking about an RS4 or RS6 (we have the latter at work) but having driven a 3.0TDI Avant I went for that. The opportunities to utilise the true performance of the RS variants on public roads are so few that they just didn't make sense to me. I've had the 3.0TDI re-mapped by a REVO outlet. If you want the sound of the throaty V8 in a diesel you can try the Audi Active Sound Exhaust. I haven't......yet!Personally I think that the Quattro is absolutely the way ahead. I have a spare set of OEM wheels fitted with winter tyres and they're on the car now. I don't believe you really feel the benefit in a Quattro unless you're driving extremely quickly, you're on snow/ice or experience an emergency situation.
Edited by Skier on Tuesday 24th January 18:37
hman said:
Kell said:
Just t ocounter the expense of running winter tyres argument:
I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
Exactly I've been running winters for about 7-8 years now after I got stuck on our drive in our old E61 530d.
Winter tyres made such a difference it was unreal. More so when it comes to cornering and stopping. I bought a SH set of genuine BMW wheels and the correct tyres for £450. I swapped them over in November and swapped them back in March. Took less than an hour each time.
When I sold the car, I sold the wheels and tyres (replacement) for £420.
You can't run two sets of tyres at once, so your summers last longer and so do your winters.
So it's not like it costs any extra really in money or hassle.
We just store the summer tyres in the shed from December to March - they do no miles during that time lol
Meanwhile the winter tyres will last about 4 years of 3/4 months active service per year.
And in the meantime all it has cost is fitting every year.
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