Is Quattro worth the increased weight and price?

[charge]

Quattro is a no brainer!!
After 4 quattro audis, the last two being A8's, my shock was uncontained after being given a new A6 2.0 tdi from the dealer when my two year old car ended up with no interior heating.
I will not go into the bks I have suffered with the car or dealer, but the A6 without quattro I was given as a loaner is downright bloody dangerous!
I was lulled into a false sence of security as on the move it seemed OK.
Pulling out of a roundabout was an eye opener though!
You put you foot down... Nothing, then a hideous mooing noise, it creeps away then decides to find its turbo and then traction controls it way out finally.
Who pays £40k for this?
Whoever it is, find a bit more for the quattro for christ sake! And maybe a bit more for a 3.0 litre?

[Blue62]

Greg66 said:

Having run a Torsen Quattro in one or other car for over 17 years, I'm struggling to think of a single servicing item or running cost that I had just because it was a Quattro. As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed. Tax? Ditto, if at all.

As others have said the winter tyres option doesn't really work as a "oh its snowy. I'll change the tyres before I go to work" solution. FWIW I think its everyday benefits are in the rain and on wet or greasy roads. It doesn't defy physics but it will give you more stability at speed, IMO. And obv rain is not that unusual here!

Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05

I only persist with 4WD because of where I live, but an impending move means I'm unlikely to bother again. I'm struggling to think why someone with 17 years experience would not have realised that the purchase premium, diff oil, tyre wear/tracking, tax and fuel were an issue, but maybe you don't do too many miles. I can't think of anyone stupid enough to put on winters just when it snows, the ritual starts as winter comes on and average temperatures drop to 7c, then revert back in the spring, simple really. What convinced me was time spent at the PEC a couple of years ago when the professional drivers demonstrated the stopping distances of various 911's in slippy conditions, the winter shod car stopped fully 10 metres before everything else and the final endorsement was that this mix of police, rally and racing drivers pretty much all chose to shod their own cars with winters. I like 4WD, but I genuinely believe it's over hyped and we are all paying a premium for something most only need for a fraction of the time.

[Rich_W]

Greg66 said:

annodomini2 said:

Greg66] said:

...As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed.

Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05

A Torsen Quattro should have all 4 tyres changed at the same time, same compound and tread depth within 1.5-2mm depending on the car.

Think that's a bit of an urban myth, TBH. Plenty of stuff, including from Audi, on the internet says otherwise.

Audi say 4mm difference of tread max. It's just the old "winding up the diff" thing that cars do. If 1 tyres at 2mm and the others brand new at 8mm you have different circumferences, hence different wheel speeds. Worth pointing out that most ESP systems work off wheel speeds so if ones significantly differnet to the others, expect the odd light on.

charge said:

Quattro is a no brainer!!
After 4 quattro audis, the last two being A8's, my shock was uncontained after being given a new A6 2.0 tdi from the dealer when my two year old car ended up with no interior heating.
I will not go into the bks I have suffered with the car or dealer, but the A6 without quattro I was given as a loaner is downright bloody dangerous!
I was lulled into a false sence of security as on the move it seemed OK.
Pulling out of a roundabout was an eye opener though!
You put you foot down... Nothing, then a hideous mooing noise, it creeps away then decides to find its turbo and then traction controls it way out finally.
Who pays £40k for this?
Whoever it is, find a bit more for the quattro for christ sake! And maybe a bit more for a 3.0 litre?

PH User in admitting "has no accelerator pedal control" post

It's a FWD large Diesel. Of course there's a peak of torque

[dc2rr07]

Greg66 said:

Blue62 said:

Quattro is expensive in terms of initial cost, running costs, tyres, fuel, tax and servicing.

Having run a Torsen Quattro in one or other car for over 17 years, I'm struggling to think of a single servicing item or running cost that I had just because it was a Quattro. As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed. Tax? Ditto, if at all.

As others have said the winter tyres option doesn't really work as a "oh its snowy. I'll change the tyres before I go to work" solution. FWIW I think its everyday benefits are in the rain and on wet or greasy roads. It doesn't defy physics but it will give you more stability at speed, IMO. And obv rain is not that unusual here!

Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05

Haldex oil and filter change is one extra cost that I can think off.

[Yertis]

dc2rr07 said:

Greg66 said:

Blue62 said:

Quattro is expensive in terms of initial cost, running costs, tyres, fuel, tax and servicing.

Having run a Torsen Quattro in one or other car for over 17 years, I'm struggling to think of a single servicing item or running cost that I had just because it was a Quattro. As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed. Tax? Ditto, if at all.

As others have said the winter tyres option doesn't really work as a "oh its snowy. I'll change the tyres before I go to work" solution. FWIW I think its everyday benefits are in the rain and on wet or greasy roads. It doesn't defy physics but it will give you more stability at speed, IMO. And obv rain is not that unusual here!

Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05

Haldex oil and filter change is one extra cost that I can think off.

Haldex is not quattro though, completely different can of wasps. TorSen diffs are (or at least were) sealed for life. That said it's sensible to change the oil at some point – I changed mine at the 25 year mark as precaution.

Having glanced at Blue62's profile I think the problems he's experienced are not so much with quattro per se, but with RS4s. I've done big-ish mileages in quattros (18k plus miles a year) over the last twenty years and haven't experienced any of the problems he's mentioned. I think that's because once you move from the S-models to RS you're basically moving into a more exotic realm, but the unquestioned added expense associated with RS does isn't IMO justified by shaving a few fractions of a second from the acceleration figures.

[anonymous-user]

Yertis said:

Having glanced at Blue62's profile I think the problems he's experienced are not so much with quattro per se, but with RS4s. I've done big-ish mileages in quattros (18k plus miles a year) over the last twenty years and haven't experienced any of the problems he's mentioned. I think that's because once you move from the S-models to RS you're basically moving into a more exotic realm, but the unquestioned added expense associated with RS does isn't IMO justified by shaving a few fractions of a second from the acceleration figures.

I wondered about that too. Our local Indy was keen to warn me off an RS5 because of what they considered to be the exorbitant cost of parts and consumables even compared to a S5. And on tyres, my 996 turbo had an appetite for rear tyres which was much more to do with grunt than 4WD or weight.


I'm still not won over by the winter/summer tyres rotation argument, I must admit. We have plenty of bone dry days in summer and plenty of wet or (worse) greasy days in summer.

That said, I have Vredestein Wintrac winters on the RR all year round, so what do I know!

[Adrian E]

I mainly swap our summer/winter wheels to save the 9x20 summer wheels getting destroyed by road salt in the winter months. As another poster above I picked up a set of 8.5x18 S-line 5 spokes for our S5 for £500, with x2 part worn and x2 virtually new Dunlop winter tyres fitted. They're now on their 3rd winter on the car and one pair will probably need replacing at the end of the season, but I may change all 4 if I change the model of tyre fitted.

The S5 needs to be mobile irrespective of weather - it does the school run and gets my wife to work down some potentially dodgy country lanes. The added security of grip in uncertain conditions is worth having IMO, for the type of use we make of it. I never bothered with my S8, purely because it would be left in the garage when the weather turned bad. The new owner has bought some 18s with winter tyres, but he lives in Scotland and uses the car daily so needs the traction benefit.

Not sure what to do with our Golf GTI - it has the factory Bridgestone tyres fitted and I'm not overly impressed by the traction offered. It will become the commuter car of choice next winter so I may try to pick up a set of winter wheels and tyres in the 'off' season when prices are generally cheaper.

[Blue62]

Greg66 said:

I'm still not won over by the winter/summer tyres rotation argument, I must admit. We have plenty of bone dry days in summer and plenty of wet or (worse) greasy days in summer.

That said, I have Vredestein Wintrac winters on the RR all year round, so what do I know!

It's as much to do with ambient temp as anything else, once the road temperature drops and the surface becomes wet and greasy a summer tyres' performance drops off markedly. Winter tyres will stop you more quickly in snow, ice and wet, to the point where you are a lot safer. I would recommend you change your Vreds for the summer as in warm temps they just get eaten.

[anonymous-user]

Blue62 said:

Greg66 said:

I'm still not won over by the winter/summer tyres rotation argument, I must admit. We have plenty of bone dry days in summer and plenty of wet or (worse) greasy days in summer.

That said, I have Vredestein Wintrac winters on the RR all year round, so what do I know!

It's as much to do with ambient temp as anything else, once the road temperature drops and the surface becomes wet and greasy a summer tyres' performance drops off markedly. Winter tyres will stop you more quickly in snow, ice and wet, to the point where you are a lot safer. I would recommend you change your Vreds for the summer as in warm temps they just get eaten.

Conversely a winter tyre won't stop you as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre. And as I said, we have lots of dry days in winter.

The Vreds are recommended on FFRR as being good year round. After a few summers' use, they're fine.

[dc2rr07]

Yertis said:

dc2rr07 said:

Greg66 said:

Blue62 said:

Quattro is expensive in terms of initial cost, running costs, tyres, fuel, tax and servicing.

Having run a Torsen Quattro in one or other car for over 17 years, I'm struggling to think of a single servicing item or running cost that I had just because it was a Quattro. As for tyres and fuel, if the additional cost over the 2WD equivalent is anything more than marginal I'd be amazed. Tax? Ditto, if at all.

As others have said the winter tyres option doesn't really work as a "oh its snowy. I'll change the tyres before I go to work" solution. FWIW I think its everyday benefits are in the rain and on wet or greasy roads. It doesn't defy physics but it will give you more stability at speed, IMO. And obv rain is not that unusual here!

Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 24th January 07:05

Haldex oil and filter change is one extra cost that I can think off.

Haldex is not quattro though, completely different can of wasps. TorSen diffs are (or at least were) sealed for life. That said it's sensible to change the oil at some point – I changed mine at the 25 year mark as precaution.

Having glanced at Blue62's profile I think the problems he's experienced are not so much with quattro per se, but with RS4s. I've done big-ish mileages in quattros (18k plus miles a year) over the last twenty years and haven't experienced any of the problems he's mentioned. I think that's because once you move from the S-models to RS you're basically moving into a more exotic realm, but the unquestioned added expense associated with RS does isn't IMO justified by shaving a few fractions of a second from the acceleration figures.

It was more of a general reply to the OP really, I had no idea myself until the garage said it has to be changed every three years, it is not a great cost in the grand scheme of things (think it was £65).

[Blue62]

Greg66 said:

Conversely a winter tyre won't stop you as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre. And as I said, we have lots of dry days in winter.

The Vreds are recommended on FFRR as being good year round. After a few summers' use, they're fine.

I'm not sure we are on the same wavelength here mate, a winter tyre will stop you more quickly in the wet or the dry when temps are low, that's the whole idea. I think you are possibly referring to summertime performance, but from what I understand a winter tyre is a softer compound, so expect no drop off in performance (vis-a-vis a normal tyre), but just greater wear, which is why you'd be well advised to change as temps go up. Apologies if I have misunderstood your point.

[Screechmr2]

i would recommend quattro. I have a quattro and a fwd vw with winter tyres and at junctions etc the winter tyres still scrabble for grip and you wheelspin like mad. They may help with traction but are nowhere near as good as quattro. winter tyres on the quattro would be perfect. the winter tyres are falken by the way.

[blade7]

Not a massive fan of my 2.0T A4 quattro in the dry, I'll usually take the Mrs Fiesta ST instead, but in slippery conditions the A4 is first choice every time. It's fun to 4 wheel drift it.

[silentbrown]

DUMBO100 said:

I have noticed in the specs that the Quattro does 0-60 in 8.9 while the FWD does it in 7.7 secs, the Quattro is also considerably more expensive but after loving the DSG and 4WD in the Golf R I am reluctant to go for a front driver.

I'd check the figures. Parkers has the FWD at 7.5 and the Quattro at 7.0. http://www.parkers.co.uk/audi/a4/saloon-2015/20-td...

Quattro for the win. I had a B8 2.0TFSI Quattro, now replaced with a B8 S4.

[Alucidnation]

Another vote for Quattro here.

Driven a few cars with it, and found it remarkably good in the wet or dry.

[Fort Jefferson]

Sylvaforever said:

Torsen or haldex?


https://youtu.be/sVD-OZKvgAI



https://youtu.be/CDRVTjMPK9Q

If it's a transverse engine it will be Haldex.

If it's inline engine it will be Torsen.

[Sylvaforever]

Greg66 said:

Sylvaforever said:

Hmm, been driving a old 1.8 tq rs for some 2 yrs now..I think that the main problem with appreciating Quattro (TORSEN) is if driven "properly" your cornering speed, front end turn in and drive out of bends is so far removed from ordinary driving it's difficult to 're calibrate your head at times, you keep pushing, it just keeps on getting faster....

We don't often agree (ever?) but this is bang on. In the dry the ability to get power down early on an exit from a corner is uncanny, and you can carry a ton of speed into the corner. Of course when it does all go wrong you'll be moving correspondingly faster but for 99% of people on a public road nerves will fail before you have a big off.

Some people like a car that adds drama (terror) in fast corners and some people prefer fuss free (dull) speed. Take your choice: it's all down to personal perspective.

"It just turned in" has become my catchphrase, Saying that last week abs triggered on (slow) approach to a stop junction, so for the meanwhile all shenanigans are out and Cpt sensible has the helm. Wish I'd brought the winters down now...

[Rutter]

How did the OP get on? Has he gone quattro?

[Kell]

RammyMP said:

Exactly x 2 but I change the wheels over myself. Timed myself last time, took 45 mins.

That's what I meant. Do them myself. As we have two cars, and I priced it up at £20 per wheel to do via KwikFit, I didn't fancy paying £160 twice a year just to swap them over.

[Kell]

Blue62 said:

Greg66 said:

Conversely a winter tyre won't stop you as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre. And as I said, we have lots of dry days in winter.

The Vreds are recommended on FFRR as being good year round. After a few summers' use, they're fine.

I'm not sure we are on the same wavelength here mate, a winter tyre will stop you more quickly in the wet or the dry when temps are low, that's the whole idea. I think you are possibly referring to summertime performance, but from what I understand a winter tyre is a softer compound, so expect no drop off in performance (vis-a-vis a normal tyre), but just greater wear, which is why you'd be well advised to change as temps go up. Apologies if I have misunderstood your point.

The argument for winter tyres is an entirely different thread, which has gone into hundreds of posts. But you're better off runnig winter tyres all year round than summers. In fact I read an article from Continental a few years back that said you should run the correct tyres for the season, but if you can only afford one set of tyres, buy winters.

When it's really hot and dry the winters will give you about 90% of the performance of summers - depending on brand. But when it's cold and wet, summers can give you as little 50% of the grip of winters.