VW Golf MK4 R32
Discussion
rottenegg said:
Yep, get your genuine one in there. They were like £45 odd when I last did one, hence why people fitted £10 AutoDOC pattern ones instead.
208 (intake) and 209 (exhaust) shows where the ECU thinks the cams are in relation to crank position, but the numbers in 91/92 are fine. So all good there.
So long as it's driving OK, that's the main thing. As mentioned previously, the exhaust cam phasing has no impact on performance. It's just annoying it's not as it should be in terms of sensor readings. You'll have to let us know if you get to the bottom of it!
Yeah i paid just under £50 for a genuine one.208 (intake) and 209 (exhaust) shows where the ECU thinks the cams are in relation to crank position, but the numbers in 91/92 are fine. So all good there.
So long as it's driving OK, that's the main thing. As mentioned previously, the exhaust cam phasing has no impact on performance. It's just annoying it's not as it should be in terms of sensor readings. You'll have to let us know if you get to the bottom of it!
So is the second photo the 91/92 measuring blocks?
Paul-g8fwk said:
rottenegg said:
Yep, get your genuine one in there. They were like £45 odd when I last did one, hence why people fitted £10 AutoDOC pattern ones instead.
208 (intake) and 209 (exhaust) shows where the ECU thinks the cams are in relation to crank position, but the numbers in 91/92 are fine. So all good there.
So long as it's driving OK, that's the main thing. As mentioned previously, the exhaust cam phasing has no impact on performance. It's just annoying it's not as it should be in terms of sensor readings. You'll have to let us know if you get to the bottom of it!
Yeah i paid just under £50 for a genuine one.208 (intake) and 209 (exhaust) shows where the ECU thinks the cams are in relation to crank position, but the numbers in 91/92 are fine. So all good there.
So long as it's driving OK, that's the main thing. As mentioned previously, the exhaust cam phasing has no impact on performance. It's just annoying it's not as it should be in terms of sensor readings. You'll have to let us know if you get to the bottom of it!
So is the second photo the 91/92 measuring blocks?
rottenegg said:
Not sure what blocks they are. 90/91 are usually the camshaft adjustment measuring blocks where you see the actual and specified values.
Ok small update.. Replaced my coolant sensor for a genuine one. Cleared fault codes relating to the coolant sensor and it hasn't returned which is good.Something still seems to be a miss.. Last night i started the car 4 or 5 times... car started fine and idled perfectly as it does. On the following start up the car would idle like a bag of spanners on the verge of cutting out. I scanned for codes again and i had another incorrect corelation code relating to the other bank (17748 +17755) so figured thats why it was running like a bag of crap. Cleared the codes a few times started the car again and it idled and ran fine. I proceeded to start the car a good dozen times and all was good. I then had the same thing happen today.
I have ordered a couple of genuine cam sensors to see if that helps. As my readings are good on VCDS i'm not understanding why sporadically it will throw up another code and idle terribly. Surely if it was a mechanical fault it would be present the whole time and not throw up a sporadic code. As it has been the car drives perfectly but can't work out what would cause it.
PaulMoVR6 said:
Ok small update.. Replaced my coolant sensor for a genuine one. Cleared fault codes relating to the coolant sensor and it hasn't returned which is good.
Something still seems to be a miss.. Last night i started the car 4 or 5 times... car started fine and idled perfectly as it does. On the following start up the car would idle like a bag of spanners on the verge of cutting out. I scanned for codes again and i had another incorrect corelation code relating to the other bank (17748 +17755) so figured thats why it was running like a bag of crap. Cleared the codes a few times started the car again and it idled and ran fine. I proceeded to start the car a good dozen times and all was good. I then had the same thing happen today.
I have ordered a couple of genuine cam sensors to see if that helps. As my readings are good on VCDS i'm not understanding why sporadically it will throw up another code and idle terribly. Surely if it was a mechanical fault it would be present the whole time and not throw up a sporadic code. As it has been the car drives perfectly but can't work out what would cause it.
Bummer. I need to have a read through from the beginning again to remind myself of what's been done, but was the chain tensioner replaced?Something still seems to be a miss.. Last night i started the car 4 or 5 times... car started fine and idled perfectly as it does. On the following start up the car would idle like a bag of spanners on the verge of cutting out. I scanned for codes again and i had another incorrect corelation code relating to the other bank (17748 +17755) so figured thats why it was running like a bag of crap. Cleared the codes a few times started the car again and it idled and ran fine. I proceeded to start the car a good dozen times and all was good. I then had the same thing happen today.
I have ordered a couple of genuine cam sensors to see if that helps. As my readings are good on VCDS i'm not understanding why sporadically it will throw up another code and idle terribly. Surely if it was a mechanical fault it would be present the whole time and not throw up a sporadic code. As it has been the car drives perfectly but can't work out what would cause it.
Good news on the coolant sensor though. German engines aren't fond of cheapy pattern sensors, especially O2 sensors.
You can try cam sensors but if the ECU has issues with those, it switches to batch injection (fires all 6 at once) as a failsafe seamlessly. If it's physically running like a bag of spanners and misfiring, that's a mechanical timing issue. Whether it's iffy VVT behaviour, timing is off, VVT solenoids swapped round or faulty.....not sure. I think it needs going over carefully by a VR6/R32 expert near to you.
rottenegg said:
Bummer. I need to have a read through from the beginning again to remind myself of what's been done, but was the chain tensioner replaced?
Good news on the coolant sensor though. German engines aren't fond of cheapy pattern sensors, especially O2 sensors.
You can try cam sensors but if the ECU has issues with those, it switches to batch injection (fires all 6 at once) as a failsafe seamlessly. If it's physically running like a bag of spanners and misfiring, that's a mechanical timing issue. Whether it's iffy VVT behaviour, timing is off, VVT solenoids swapped round or faulty.....not sure. I think it needs going over carefully by a VR6/R32 expert near to you.
Yep it’s a weird one. My logic was if it idles fine 5 times out of 6 why would it suddenly run like poo.. that made me think it was more of an electrical issue rather than mechanical? If it’s that far off the timing surely it would run like a bag of spanner’s the whole time. Maybe not though. I started the car there a short while ago idles fine (due in for an MOT on Monday so just making sure all is good with lights etc)Good news on the coolant sensor though. German engines aren't fond of cheapy pattern sensors, especially O2 sensors.
You can try cam sensors but if the ECU has issues with those, it switches to batch injection (fires all 6 at once) as a failsafe seamlessly. If it's physically running like a bag of spanners and misfiring, that's a mechanical timing issue. Whether it's iffy VVT behaviour, timing is off, VVT solenoids swapped round or faulty.....not sure. I think it needs going over carefully by a VR6/R32 expert near to you.
Unless the variators are the actual issue even though they were fully cleaned and they were moving freely. They were then set correctly. It was a VR6 specialist that carried the work out. I have obviously spoke with them and they would be happy to take it back but I’m just trying to explore other avenues myself. They’re located over 100 miles away so want to explore options myself before taking the car back down.
PaulMoVR6 said:
Yep it’s a weird one. My logic was if it idles fine 5 times out of 6 why would it suddenly run like poo.. that made me think it was more of an electrical issue rather than mechanical? If it’s that far off the timing surely it would run like a bag of spanner’s the whole time. Maybe not though. I started the car there a short while ago idles fine (due in for an MOT on Monday so just making sure all is good with lights etc)
Unless the variators are the actual issue even though they were fully cleaned and they were moving freely. They were then set correctly. It was a VR6 specialist that carried the work out. I have obviously spoke with them and they would be happy to take it back but I’m just trying to explore other avenues myself. They’re located over 100 miles away so want to explore options myself before taking the car back down.
Yeah that is sound logic and I tend to agree, but the thorn in it's side is the persistent cam/crank correlation error and no reading in measuring block 209.Unless the variators are the actual issue even though they were fully cleaned and they were moving freely. They were then set correctly. It was a VR6 specialist that carried the work out. I have obviously spoke with them and they would be happy to take it back but I’m just trying to explore other avenues myself. They’re located over 100 miles away so want to explore options myself before taking the car back down.
These engines are very good at adapting around issues, and then they run out of options and run badly. The fact it's intermittent makes it all the harder to diagnose.
Without knowing exactly what was done 30K miles ago, it's really hard to pinpoint the issue over the internet unfortunately.
I've never seen VVT sprocket failure on an R32, or any issues with the oil supply/pressure feeding them. Try popping the VVT solenoids out and put 12V across them. You should hear a click and see the piston move slightly. If nothing happens, that could be your answer. If one or both are getting stuck intermittently due to age/wear, that will cause rough running.
You could also try just pulling the VVT solenoid connectors and see how consistently it runs then. The cams won't adjust but taking that out of the equation might help narrow it down.
rottenegg said:
Yeah that is sound logic and I tend to agree, but the thorn in it's side is the persistent cam/crank correlation error and no reading in measuring block 209.
These engines are very good at adapting around issues, and then they run out of options and run badly. The fact it's intermittent makes it all the harder to diagnose.
Without knowing exactly what was done 30K miles ago, it's really hard to pinpoint the issue over the internet unfortunately.
I've never seen VVT sprocket failure on an R32, or any issues with the oil supply/pressure feeding them. Try popping the VVT solenoids out and put 12V across them. You should hear a click and see the piston move slightly. If nothing happens, that could be your answer. If one or both are getting stuck intermittently due to age/wear, that will cause rough running.
You could also try just pulling the VVT solenoid connectors and see how consistently it runs then. The cams won't adjust but taking that out of the equation might help narrow it down.
All the hardware relating to the chains were replaced less than 500 miles ago (apart from cam variators- it was decided as they were moving freely and in good condition i never replaced them they were also £700 each from VW!) I had a faulty VVT solenoid that was replaced for a new one. Ill give that a go. If not the garage that required out the work will have to take the car back,These engines are very good at adapting around issues, and then they run out of options and run badly. The fact it's intermittent makes it all the harder to diagnose.
Without knowing exactly what was done 30K miles ago, it's really hard to pinpoint the issue over the internet unfortunately.
I've never seen VVT sprocket failure on an R32, or any issues with the oil supply/pressure feeding them. Try popping the VVT solenoids out and put 12V across them. You should hear a click and see the piston move slightly. If nothing happens, that could be your answer. If one or both are getting stuck intermittently due to age/wear, that will cause rough running.
You could also try just pulling the VVT solenoid connectors and see how consistently it runs then. The cams won't adjust but taking that out of the equation might help narrow it down.
PaulMoVR6 said:
rottenegg said:
Yeah that is sound logic and I tend to agree, but the thorn in it's side is the persistent cam/crank correlation error and no reading in measuring block 209.
These engines are very good at adapting around issues, and then they run out of options and run badly. The fact it's intermittent makes it all the harder to diagnose.
Without knowing exactly what was done 30K miles ago, it's really hard to pinpoint the issue over the internet unfortunately.
I've never seen VVT sprocket failure on an R32, or any issues with the oil supply/pressure feeding them. Try popping the VVT solenoids out and put 12V across them. You should hear a click and see the piston move slightly. If nothing happens, that could be your answer. If one or both are getting stuck intermittently due to age/wear, that will cause rough running.
You could also try just pulling the VVT solenoid connectors and see how consistently it runs then. The cams won't adjust but taking that out of the equation might help narrow it down.
All the hardware relating to the chains were replaced less than 500 miles ago (apart from cam variators- it was decided as they were moving freely and in good condition i never replaced them they were also £700 each from VW!) I had a faulty VVT solenoid that was replaced for a new one. Ill give that a go. If not the garage that required out the work will have to take the car back,These engines are very good at adapting around issues, and then they run out of options and run badly. The fact it's intermittent makes it all the harder to diagnose.
Without knowing exactly what was done 30K miles ago, it's really hard to pinpoint the issue over the internet unfortunately.
I've never seen VVT sprocket failure on an R32, or any issues with the oil supply/pressure feeding them. Try popping the VVT solenoids out and put 12V across them. You should hear a click and see the piston move slightly. If nothing happens, that could be your answer. If one or both are getting stuck intermittently due to age/wear, that will cause rough running.
You could also try just pulling the VVT solenoid connectors and see how consistently it runs then. The cams won't adjust but taking that out of the equation might help narrow it down.
tbh I would take it back rather than play at this stage. The specialist may have missed something (no one is perfect) and they sound a good garage if they have said happy to take it back and sort it out. These are old cars now and parts fail, even after spending a fortune on fixing something else, the longer you leave it the less likely the garage goodwill will stay on the table.
From what I am reading it sounds like the timing is out and it is probably those variators causing the fault. The specialist I use keeps a couple on the shelf for the 24v VR6.
From what I am reading it sounds like the timing is out and it is probably those variators causing the fault. The specialist I use keeps a couple on the shelf for the 24v VR6.
rottenegg said:
Yep variators are silly money. Was the replacement solenoid oem or a pattern one? Yeah taking it back to the garage might be the only option as the usual stuff has been checked and discussed. Good luck!
It was a genuine OEM solenoid which also wasn’t cheap. Fitted the cam sensors its only flagging up one code the original 17755 code. It can only be the variator in my opinion so I’ll probably just bite the bullet and replace them. Good thing is the gear box doesn’t need to come off to replace them. I’ve seen a German firm on eBay manufacture them and are about £350 each compared to VWs £700 odd!VeeReihenmotor6 said:
tbh I would take it back rather than play at this stage. The specialist may have missed something (no one is perfect) and they sound a good garage if they have said happy to take it back and sort it out. These are old cars now and parts fail, even after spending a fortune on fixing something else, the longer you leave it the less likely the garage goodwill will stay on the table.
From what I am reading it sounds like the timing is out and it is probably those variators causing the fault. The specialist I use keeps a couple on the shelf for the 24v VR6.
Yeah process of elimination I think it can only be the variators. It’s just a sickener the cost of them but it can only be them I’m thinking. There is a German firm on eBay who manufacture them for half the cost of genuine ones so this might be an option.From what I am reading it sounds like the timing is out and it is probably those variators causing the fault. The specialist I use keeps a couple on the shelf for the 24v VR6.
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