Audi's MultiTronic Gearbox
Discussion
johnzo said:
Is there any way this thread could be bumped down the list onto page two, it's starting to depress me cos I have a Multitronic A4 on order with March delivery promised! I can't change the spec now, but to say that I am now nervous and not looking forward to getting the car is an understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously mate do not worry, the new B8 multi is awesome. I've put 13k on mine and its super smooth and intelligent. Should not go wrong as its in its third gen and you've got a dealer warranty for three years if it does, which it won't.Thanks for your response TT - (sorry I don't know how to format the box that refers to your post)
Yes it has had the sump off. Something about an oil supply pick-up becoming clogged and reducing oil pressure. This supposedly a standard engine problem but unusual at only 58k. What's a MAF?
I asked the service guys if it was turbo but they inclined to gearbox.
Found something on MAFs (Manifold Air Pressure sensor) - this sounds a bit less expensive to rectify.
Still think I'm going to sell the car. Wife still wants an auto so would you recommend a Quattro/Tiptronic version?
Yes it has had the sump off. Something about an oil supply pick-up becoming clogged and reducing oil pressure. This supposedly a standard engine problem but unusual at only 58k. What's a MAF?
I asked the service guys if it was turbo but they inclined to gearbox.
Edited by Craft Shank on Sunday 31st January 23:17
Found something on MAFs (Manifold Air Pressure sensor) - this sounds a bit less expensive to rectify.
Still think I'm going to sell the car. Wife still wants an auto so would you recommend a Quattro/Tiptronic version?
Edited by Craft Shank on Sunday 31st January 23:48
New shape A4 and A5 have completely revised and new version of the multi tronic, which has yet to give any propblems. Is not the same as the ones discussed here.
[/quote]
Hi Tame Technician,
What is the difference between the Multitronic box on my 53 plate A6 and the later ones? also is there any preventative maintenance that i can do to my Multi to stop it dying prematurely ? your advice is much appreciated
Cheers,
Chas.
[/quote]
Hi Tame Technician,
What is the difference between the Multitronic box on my 53 plate A6 and the later ones? also is there any preventative maintenance that i can do to my Multi to stop it dying prematurely ? your advice is much appreciated
Cheers,
Chas.
Edited by cbv8 on Monday 1st February 01:11
Craft Shank said:
Thanks for your response TT - (sorry I don't know how to format the box that refers to your post)
Yes it has had the sump off. Something about an oil supply pick-up becoming clogged and reducing oil pressure. This supposedly a standard engine problem but unusual at only 58k. What's a MAF?
I asked the service guys if it was turbo but they inclined to gearbox.
Found something on MAFs (Manifold Air Pressure sensor) - this sounds a bit less expensive to rectify.
Still think I'm going to sell the car. Wife still wants an auto so would you recommend a Quattro/Tiptronic version?
IF there has been an oil supply problem in the recent past then the noise you are hearing is almost certainly turbo. They die very quicly without oil pressure. Its not unusual on a 1.8T regardless of mileage.Yes it has had the sump off. Something about an oil supply pick-up becoming clogged and reducing oil pressure. This supposedly a standard engine problem but unusual at only 58k. What's a MAF?
I asked the service guys if it was turbo but they inclined to gearbox.
Edited by Craft Shank on Sunday 31st January 23:17
Found something on MAFs (Manifold Air Pressure sensor) - this sounds a bit less expensive to rectify.
Still think I'm going to sell the car. Wife still wants an auto so would you recommend a Quattro/Tiptronic version?
Edited by Craft Shank on Sunday 31st January 23:48
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
MAF is Mass Air Flow, or air flow meter, the electrical sensor that tell the engine ECU how much air is coming in. When they play up the engine generally idle fine and runs ok up to arround 4500rpm when it then holds back and its then hard to rev any higher.
There could well be a noise from the gearbox too, they are quite noisey if you listen undernieth with the engine running. But for all there problems multi tronics dont really wine even when there knackered.
My advise is sell the car on, its sound like a wrongen to me.
Tame Technician said:
The Quatro Tip tronics are generally bullet proof, unless your talking well over 120k miles. Then we have had one or two go wrong.
Thank you TT. I genuinely appreciate the time and expertise you bring to this forum. I'm still a bit crestfallen to have my faith in Audi so shaken.Tame Technician said:
MAF is Mass Air Flow, or air flow meter, the electrical sensor that tell the engine ECU how much air is coming in. When they play up the engine generally idle fine and runs ok up to arround 4500rpm when it then holds back and its then hard to rev any higher.
Update: Did some research on MAFs and gleaned that the quick any easy way to test if it's the MAF is to unplug it. The ECU reverts to default values (and weirdly shows a traction control warning light). If the car runs better it's a good bet that the MAF is faulty or needs cleaning. Did this and annoyingly there was no change (maybe more smokey exhaust). So I removed the MAF to clean it anyway. Having seen a photo on the net I was expecting to see a wire and a resistor clipped to the side of the centre probe. Mine has little clips and even an embossed image of where the wire and resistor should be, but no wire.Question: Have they redesigned the MAF and ditched the external wire (but not the little clips and picture??) or could this be the problem. It occurred to me that disconnecting a MAF that is totally dead might not make any difference? Any thoughts?
Tame Technician said:
The Quatro Tip tronics are generally bullet proof, unless your talking well over 120k miles. Then we have had one or two go wrong.
Interesting - so when looking for my next purchase (Auto A4 Convertible) I should make sure I get a Quattro Tip Tronic version to avoid expensive bills? Why is this box different?Also - I have Just been looking through the classifieds and all the cars in my price bracket 8/9k (52/53 plate) seem to say either Multitronic or Auto. Only one car says TIP in the ad and this happens to also be a quattro car. Did the Tiptronic box only come with Quattro models? And how can I tell the difference when asking the sellers questions over the phone about the cars?
I'm sure any trader 'in the know' will tell me its fitted with a Tiptronic box!
Thank you!
Edited by AudiSport on Tuesday 9th February 09:39
Hi, I am looking to buy a new car and currently looking at an A6 2.0TDi Sline Auto Multitronic, 39k miles, £15,000, which is on sale near me. I was researching what multitronic is and how it works and came across this brilliant thread.
TT you seem like the main man here and would appreciate your further advice.
The car is out of warranty and had three owners, a dealer, a main driver for the bulk of the miles and recent owner who had it for 6 months. Oil change at 35K miles, and car is pristine, and I honestly like it.
But simply I can't really afford the headache or repairs bills (two kids and self employed) so sounds like a very bad idea this multitronic???? So in a nutshell don't buy this car?
While I'm on can i also ask - I currently have a 1997 audi 1.9tdi 127k miles (hence the upgrade) and been having problems accelaerating around 50-70 mph and pickup can very intermitten. First thought it was the air mass meter but a change didnt work, error been identified as manifold pressure problem by local non-audi garage, is that the turbo on its way out?
Any advice from any postee would be greatfully appreciated.
TT you seem like the main man here and would appreciate your further advice.
The car is out of warranty and had three owners, a dealer, a main driver for the bulk of the miles and recent owner who had it for 6 months. Oil change at 35K miles, and car is pristine, and I honestly like it.
But simply I can't really afford the headache or repairs bills (two kids and self employed) so sounds like a very bad idea this multitronic???? So in a nutshell don't buy this car?
While I'm on can i also ask - I currently have a 1997 audi 1.9tdi 127k miles (hence the upgrade) and been having problems accelaerating around 50-70 mph and pickup can very intermitten. First thought it was the air mass meter but a change didnt work, error been identified as manifold pressure problem by local non-audi garage, is that the turbo on its way out?
Any advice from any postee would be greatfully appreciated.
Edited by teddybaker on Friday 12th February 07:26
teddybaker said:
Hi, I am looking to buy a new car and currently looking at an A6 2.0TDi Sline Auto Multitronic, 39k miles, £15,000, which is on sale near me. I was researching what multitronic is and how it works and came across this brilliant thread.
TT you seem like the main man here and would appreciate your further advice.
The car is out of warranty and had three owners, a dealer, a main driver for the bulk of the miles and recent owner who had it for 6 months. Oil change at 35K miles, and car is pristine, and I honestly like it.
But simply I can't really afford the headache or repairs bills (two kids and self employed) so sounds like a very bad idea this multitronic???? So in a nutshell don't buy this car?
While I'm on can i also ask - I currently have a 1997 audi 1.9tdi 127k miles (hence the upgrade) and been having problems accelaerating around 50-70 mph and pickup can very intermitten. First thought it was the air mass meter but a change didnt work, error been identified as manifold pressure problem by local non-audi garage, is that the turbo on its way out?
Any advice from any postee would be greatfully appreciated.
When you work on cars for a living you kinda think of auto box's as ticking bombs regardless. But with multi's there more like a granade with the pin already out. Its not gone bang, but its not going to be long. TO be fair the later ones (7 speeds in manual mode) are a lot better, dont really have the judder and pull away problems, but we still see them with failed ECU's from time to time, in much the same way as the earlier ones. I wouldnt own an automatic full stop. And definatly not a multi. But if the car is perfect exactly what you want and at the right price, only get it if you dont intend to do millions of miles. Reduces your chances of being unlucky and owning it when the granade goes off. And if you get it from an Audi centre you get at least one years propper warranty.TT you seem like the main man here and would appreciate your further advice.
The car is out of warranty and had three owners, a dealer, a main driver for the bulk of the miles and recent owner who had it for 6 months. Oil change at 35K miles, and car is pristine, and I honestly like it.
But simply I can't really afford the headache or repairs bills (two kids and self employed) so sounds like a very bad idea this multitronic???? So in a nutshell don't buy this car?
While I'm on can i also ask - I currently have a 1997 audi 1.9tdi 127k miles (hence the upgrade) and been having problems accelaerating around 50-70 mph and pickup can very intermitten. First thought it was the air mass meter but a change didnt work, error been identified as manifold pressure problem by local non-audi garage, is that the turbo on its way out?
Any advice from any postee would be greatfully appreciated.
Edited by teddybaker on Friday 12th February 07:26
See slugish thread for the turbo thing.
We seem to have opened the topic to include other auto boxes too, so I hope nobody minds me asking TT a question about my '99 A6 2.5TDI Quattro Tiptronic...
1. Once/twice a week if I'm feathering the throttle or using cruise at very light loads for more than a minute at a constant speed of around 30-45 mph (i.e. pootling around town) the gearbox will drop into limp mode - held in 3rd gear, no torque convertor lock-up, all gear positions lit up in dash display. Turning off the engine and restarting (while rolling) resets the problem, usually for the rest of the journey.
2. Very occasionally the gearbox will hold itself in 4th gear, even at 70mph. I can tip it up into 5th but it'll drop back to 4th immediately, as though it thinks I've got the throttle depressed.
The car has done this occasionally since we bought it four years ago at 120k miles but otherwise is perfect. It hasn't got better or worse over time. I've had the gearbox oil changed by a specialist. The mechanic said there was no debris in the old oil.
I drive the car gently with light and smooth throttle inputs. My wife is more on/off the throttle and these problems don't happen for her.
I've never seen anybody else online describing similar symptoms. Tame Technician, if you can offer any advice I'd be most grateful.
1. Once/twice a week if I'm feathering the throttle or using cruise at very light loads for more than a minute at a constant speed of around 30-45 mph (i.e. pootling around town) the gearbox will drop into limp mode - held in 3rd gear, no torque convertor lock-up, all gear positions lit up in dash display. Turning off the engine and restarting (while rolling) resets the problem, usually for the rest of the journey.
2. Very occasionally the gearbox will hold itself in 4th gear, even at 70mph. I can tip it up into 5th but it'll drop back to 4th immediately, as though it thinks I've got the throttle depressed.
The car has done this occasionally since we bought it four years ago at 120k miles but otherwise is perfect. It hasn't got better or worse over time. I've had the gearbox oil changed by a specialist. The mechanic said there was no debris in the old oil.
I drive the car gently with light and smooth throttle inputs. My wife is more on/off the throttle and these problems don't happen for her.
I've never seen anybody else online describing similar symptoms. Tame Technician, if you can offer any advice I'd be most grateful.
AcidReflux said:
We seem to have opened the topic to include other auto boxes too, so I hope nobody minds me asking TT a question about my '99 A6 2.5TDI Quattro Tiptronic...
1. Once/twice a week if I'm feathering the throttle or using cruise at very light loads for more than a minute at a constant speed of around 30-45 mph (i.e. pootling around town) the gearbox will drop into limp mode - held in 3rd gear, no torque convertor lock-up, all gear positions lit up in dash display. Turning off the engine and restarting (while rolling) resets the problem, usually for the rest of the journey.
2. Very occasionally the gearbox will hold itself in 4th gear, even at 70mph. I can tip it up into 5th but it'll drop back to 4th immediately, as though it thinks I've got the throttle depressed.
The car has done this occasionally since we bought it four years ago at 120k miles but otherwise is perfect. It hasn't got better or worse over time. I've had the gearbox oil changed by a specialist. The mechanic said there was no debris in the old oil.
I drive the car gently with light and smooth throttle inputs. My wife is more on/off the throttle and these problems don't happen for her.
I've never seen anybody else online describing similar symptoms. Tame Technician, if you can offer any advice I'd be most grateful.
If its going into limp home and flashing the display it will have logged a code. Gearbox ECU has seen something it doesnt like, or cant read a sensors signal etc, it will log this in its memory at the same time as it puts it into limp home. 1. Once/twice a week if I'm feathering the throttle or using cruise at very light loads for more than a minute at a constant speed of around 30-45 mph (i.e. pootling around town) the gearbox will drop into limp mode - held in 3rd gear, no torque convertor lock-up, all gear positions lit up in dash display. Turning off the engine and restarting (while rolling) resets the problem, usually for the rest of the journey.
2. Very occasionally the gearbox will hold itself in 4th gear, even at 70mph. I can tip it up into 5th but it'll drop back to 4th immediately, as though it thinks I've got the throttle depressed.
The car has done this occasionally since we bought it four years ago at 120k miles but otherwise is perfect. It hasn't got better or worse over time. I've had the gearbox oil changed by a specialist. The mechanic said there was no debris in the old oil.
I drive the car gently with light and smooth throttle inputs. My wife is more on/off the throttle and these problems don't happen for her.
I've never seen anybody else online describing similar symptoms. Tame Technician, if you can offer any advice I'd be most grateful.
First step is to have the fault memory checked to see what is says. Could be somthing simply, or it could be bad. At the main dealer, with our labour rate, its not cost effective to rebuild the ZF box's, Had the same thing as Jaguar.
If you can find a good ZF auto tranmisison specialist they would likely be able to repair the fault (speed sensor, shift solonoid etc) or rebuild the box if its terminal.
Cant remember if it was at Jag or at Audi, but I have done input and output speed sensors before, and I've definatly done the internal wiring harness on a few jags. The gearbox is basically the same for both, just no 4x4 on the jag. You can get to them with the box in the car, but have to drop the sump and maybe the valve body too, its a long time ago and my memroy is crap these days.
There is an input and output speed sensor, often the ECU logs a mismatch between the two and this can be due to speed sensor, or internal wiring harness fault. !!BUT!! Just because the ECU says speed sensor, doesnt mean thats the problem. If the ecu see's an input and output speed, that doesn't relate to the gear that the box is supposed to be in, for any other reason (slipping or mechanical failure etc) it will log the same code. So you dont know whats causing it.
Goto page 21 on this PDF, shows the speed sensors (27.020 + 27.040) and internal harness, Is the RWD BMW version of the ZF5HP, but very similar to your tip tronic. Gives you an idea why we dont take them apart at £100 per hr, and why I will never own an automatic.
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/import/zf_na/st...
There is an input and output speed sensor, often the ECU logs a mismatch between the two and this can be due to speed sensor, or internal wiring harness fault. !!BUT!! Just because the ECU says speed sensor, doesnt mean thats the problem. If the ecu see's an input and output speed, that doesn't relate to the gear that the box is supposed to be in, for any other reason (slipping or mechanical failure etc) it will log the same code. So you dont know whats causing it.
Goto page 21 on this PDF, shows the speed sensors (27.020 + 27.040) and internal harness, Is the RWD BMW version of the ZF5HP, but very similar to your tip tronic. Gives you an idea why we dont take them apart at £100 per hr, and why I will never own an automatic.
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/import/zf_na/st...
Your description of light engine loads in various gears has jogged the old memory. We used to change Torque converters in S-Type jags for a very similar fault. But the fault memory always logged a really obvious TC lock up fault code, so maybe its nothing to do with it.
I did a google. ...........
2003on S-types with 6 speed ZF 6hp26 tranmissions.
Some of the above vehicles may exhibit the MIL illuminating with Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741 (Torque Converter Clutch Stuck Open) logged in the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and Engine Control Module (ECM).
It has been found that there is a fault with the clutch lining of the torque converter. A modified torque converter is now available to resolve the concern.
....................
Perhaps where the S-types had a known batch of dodgy TC's yours has naturally worn out its clutch lining, Again I cant stress enough, you need to find a good ZF specialist. Even the best main dealer technicians & indy specialist, wont know as much as the people that do nothing else but auto box's all day.
Another happy Jaguar owner started his own website it seems. Just to prove it not just Audi's that can have problomatic auto transmissions. I've added a link.
http://www.thelurch.com/lurching_zf_transmission.h...
I did a google. ...........
2003on S-types with 6 speed ZF 6hp26 tranmissions.
Some of the above vehicles may exhibit the MIL illuminating with Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741 (Torque Converter Clutch Stuck Open) logged in the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and Engine Control Module (ECM).
It has been found that there is a fault with the clutch lining of the torque converter. A modified torque converter is now available to resolve the concern.
....................
Perhaps where the S-types had a known batch of dodgy TC's yours has naturally worn out its clutch lining, Again I cant stress enough, you need to find a good ZF specialist. Even the best main dealer technicians & indy specialist, wont know as much as the people that do nothing else but auto box's all day.
Another happy Jaguar owner started his own website it seems. Just to prove it not just Audi's that can have problomatic auto transmissions. I've added a link.
http://www.thelurch.com/lurching_zf_transmission.h...
Well, I've just chopped in my multitronic. I was pulling out of Leigh Delamare services last week when it decided off and on for a couple of minutes that it didn't recognise "drive" any more. Been fine since, but that was the last warning/straw.
I did tell the trader of the problems but he didn't seem too worried and my A6 will be coming soon to an auction near you... beware
Anyhow, bought an Alfa 156 instead so I guess I'm a glutton for punishment!!
I did tell the trader of the problems but he didn't seem too worried and my A6 will be coming soon to an auction near you... beware
Anyhow, bought an Alfa 156 instead so I guess I'm a glutton for punishment!!
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