Audi S3 - does it get any better?

[JonRB]

phlap said:

Someone buying a recent S3 is unlikely to consider a Corrado VR6 as the newest is 12 years old and most are now nails. Fully agree it's a superb car but very hard to find a nice one these days.

A very fair point. Even mine is starting to feel its age, despite having had a small fortune spent on it mechanically. Well, I say small fortune, more like several times more than the car is worth.

[agent006]

Welshbeef said:

Given the very high purchase price of the S3 you may as well buy a Leon Cupra R, effectively the same car.

Given the high purchase price of a Cupra R, you may as well buy a Leon 1.6 SE, they're effectively the same car.

[dibbly_dobbler]

agent006 said:

Welshbeef said:

Given the very high purchase price of the S3 you may as well buy a Leon Cupra R, effectively the same car.

Given the high purchase price of a Cupra R, you may as well buy a Leon 1.6 SE, they're effectively the same car.

Tee-Hee and agreed. Sorry Beefy that's tosh.

[Dr G]

The R is very capable I'll agree but it really isn't a patch on a well kept S3, chum!

[Welshbeef]

phlap said:

IMHO it's a bit pointless bringing up different cars as a 'better' choice. The OP has a nice car that he likes. Good for him.
All the alternatives suggested here are equally fine depending on circumstances, requirements and whatever floats your boat.

Someone buying a recent S3 is unlikely to consider a Corrado VR6 as the newest is 12 years old and most are now nails. Fully agree it's a superb car but very hard to find a nice one these days.

The S3 does tick a lot of boxes as an allrounder. I dont own one or aspire to own one. Its just a perfectly decent car.

One fault is the 4wd its not needed 95% of the time in the UK and thus is just extra weight to carry around which blunts performance on the move and harms fuel economy.
Ditto RWD in most situations in the UK you just dont need RWD is extra weight so you need more power vs the equivalent FWD to maintain the same power to weight ratio yes it might be quicker off the line but then on the move same power RWD vs same power FWD the FWD will be quicker due to less weight.

Also the rwd is quicker off the line ditto 4wd but how many people launch their cars off the line every time and in reality your only gaining maybe a car length or less unless your "challenging" a far lesser powered car then you will beat them easily but that of course questions the point in "challening" lesser cars its a a willy waving exercise IMHO. You either have a fast car and if so dont need to demonstrate its performance to all or you dont then you do try to beat far better cars than your own then get all smug that every now & then you beat someone (eve though they might not be trying or just pulling away normally wondeing what this chav is doing next to them in the overtaking lane).

[mel]

Well that lot just makes you sound like you would be perfectly suited to a Cupra R, I think it's an ideal car for you and perfect for your needs, maybe you could come back and look at an S3 when you grow up a little and your needs mature, good luck.

[marctwo]

[Welshbeef]

mel said:

Well that lot just makes you sound like you would be perfectly suited to a Cupra R, I think it's an ideal car for you and perfect for your needs, maybe you could come back and look at an S3 when you grow up a little and your needs mature, good luck.

So lets clarify here - your stating that Mature = lots of off the line starts & not enjoyuing a higher power to weight where in the real world it matters more than off the line rubbish.

If of course that is the generic attitude of S3 owners I think I'd like not to venture on that boat. Out of interest do you or have you actually owned either of these cars or are you just adding to the topic from other peoples experiance of the cars not your own?
My points are very valid cost, performance, weight, cost of debt. Not the pathetic "when you mature rubbish" you spouted in that previous post.

Also interesting point you make - when you mature you may consider the S3 even more - do I take it this means long after you have had kids (as the boot is smaller and the opening tighter than the Golf & Leon) so based upon that your indicating the S3 is an Old mans car? Please clarify.

[Robatr0n]

I have never been bothered by a cupra R either in gear or off the starting blocks.

I think it's a well suited car to someone who only knows how to drive fast in a straight line on occasions as from what I gather from owners its not exactly the best handling car in the world.

That said I do like Cupras, but I don't buy this rubbish about it being better than RWD and 4wd 95% of the time.

[mel]

Welshbeef said:

Also the rwd is quicker off the line ditto 4wd but how many people launch their cars off the line every time and in reality your only gaining maybe a car length or less unless your "challenging" a far lesser powered car then you will beat them easily but that of course questions the point in "challening" lesser cars its a a willy waving exercise IMHO. You either have a fast car and if so dont need to demonstrate its performance to all or you dont then you do try to beat far better cars than your own then get all smug that every now & then you beat someone (eve though they might not be trying or just pulling away normally wondeing what this chav is doing next to them in the overtaking lane).

Well it appears you've totally missed the point, all the talk above about, gaining a cars length, beating far better cars and beating chavs away from lights without trying to me just says "tosser" it implies road racing, it creates the image of the local town centre one way system grand prix (or is that grand pricks) and sounds to me like someone who needs to grow up with their motoring enjoyment, or someone who has a pure desire to get the fastest they can for the pounds they spend which suits the Cupra R perfectly and why I say it's the ideal car. The S3 is just so much more than that, yes I have owned 2 infact, both a 210 & a 225 varient and was touch and go about buying the latest version before in the end going for a S4, The S3 is not an old mans cars I never said that, it a car for people who want a nice all round performance package, with a touch of class, understatement, taste, and quality. The Cupra is a perfectly capable car and indeed very similar, but is compromised in so many ways to build it down to the budget, those compromises are on the refinements of the car, the quality, the feel, the luxury and the general overall package. Again we go back to the Bentley/Phaeton comparison fundementally they are the same car but my god do they sell to different markets.

[Welshbeef]

Robatr0n said:

I have never been bothered by a cupra R either in gear or off the starting blocks.

I think it's a well suited car to someone who only knows how to drive fast in a straight line on occasions as from what I gather from owners its not exactly the best handling car in the world.

That said I do like Cupras, but I don't buy this rubbish about it being better than RWD and 4wd 95% of the time.

Well thats the great thing about choice.


If the S3 driver & Cupra R driver were in the same gear at the same speed then due to the lower weight of the Leon it would pull away (not by much granted but it would be ahead) off the line traction and weight tfr helps RWD and 4WD offers even high levels of grip so same Power to weight a 4wd & rwd should always beat a FWD off the line.

Handling - well for my driving I spend 95% of the time on M ways/Dual carridgeways/A roads too congested to overtake and then the very odd 5% of amazing B roads in North Wales through the national park. Clearly it depends on where you live but for me ave speed commuting is very low and no matter what car you drive it wouldnt make any difference.

[Robatr0n]

Welshbeef said:

Well thats the great thing about choice.


If the S3 driver & Cupra R driver were in the same gear at the same speed then due to the lower weight of the Leon it would pull away (not by much granted but it would be ahead) off the line traction and weight tfr helps RWD and 4WD offers even high levels of grip so same Power to weight a 4wd & rwd should always beat a FWD off the line.

Handling - well for my driving I spend 95% of the time on M ways/Dual carridgeways/A roads too congested to overtake and then the very odd 5% of amazing B roads in North Wales through the national park. Clearly it depends on where you live but for me ave speed commuting is very low and no matter what car you drive it wouldnt make any difference.

I completely agree with you which is why I find it a little odd that you suggested the Cupra R over the S3 as they are virtually the same. Maybe I misread it as opinionated instead of offering a helpful alternative?

For the daily driving I do, fwd would be fine but for weekend driving I have to have 4wd, especially when trying to keep up with the thames valley lot on their hoons.

Alot of it is down to driver too! I know a few people who can get a slower car to go alot quicker than a faster car in a straight line (S3 vs Cupra R in gear?) but thats not really a talent is it?

Anyway, as you say its all down to choice.

[Fort Jefferson]

[phlap]

Robatr0n said:

Welshbeef said:

Well thats the great thing about choice.

If the S3 driver & Cupra R driver were in the same gear at the same speed then due to the lower weight of the Leon it would pull away (not by much granted but it would be ahead) off the line traction and weight tfr helps RWD and 4WD offers even high levels of grip so same Power to weight a 4wd & rwd should always beat a FWD off the line.

Handling - well for my driving I spend 95% of the time on M ways/Dual carridgeways/A roads too congested to overtake and then the very odd 5% of amazing B roads in North Wales through the national park. Clearly it depends on where you live but for me ave
speed commuting is very low and no matter what car you drive it wouldnt make any difference.

I completely agree with you which is why I find it a little odd that you suggested the Cupra R over the S3 as they are virtually the same. Maybe I misread it as opinionated instead of offering a helpful alternative?

For the daily driving I do, fwd would be fine but for weekend driving I have to have 4wd, especially when trying to keep up with the thames valley lot on their hoons.

Alot of it is down to driver too! I know a few people who can get a slower car to go alot quicker than a faster car in a straight line (S3 vs Cupra R in gear?) but thats not really a talent is it?

Anyway, as you say its all down to choice.

Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer choice!

However, Im having difficulty accepting that front drive is somehow better than 4wd even accepting the weight and small performance disadvantages that this brings. The performance differences between an S3 and Cupra R are hardly convincing enough to justify the Seat on that alone.
IMHO 4wd brings advantages when you nail it out of a side road, nip into a gap in traffic, enter a slippery roundabout or this week, climbing icy untreated roads. Its nothing to do with willy waving at the lights.

Id be quite happy with a Cupra, but Id also quite happily trade a few tenths against the clock for the other advantages of 4wd.

[Welshbeef]

Well I live in the S.E. and frankly down here maybe 2 -4 days a year are what would be considered dangerous conditions so those trips are driven at very very slow speeds (and then you see some idiot flying past in their range rover in the fast lane!!) thats when 4wd would certainly be beneficial to me.

The downsides are clearly more weight = curbs performance, lower fuel economy and more to go wrong

Upsides as you state - so its then down to how much you beleieve those advantages are worth as a premium over the Cupra.

If there was a Fwd S3 and say a £3k more 4wd S3 which would you go for everything else being equal?

[mel]

I am honestly struggling to believe that you have ever driven a 4wd performance car let alone owned one to be able to make comments like that, to say that there are maybe 2-4 days/year when 4wd would be a noticable advantage it frankly tosh, if you'd have said 2-4 months when the roundabouts and roads are greasey and a fwd hot hatch breaks traction and understeers with alarming regularity then I'd have thought you'd be about right but believe me it doesn't have to have a dusting of snow to make 4wd a noticable advantage on real world UK roads.

My other half drives a MINI Cooper S which is renowned for being one of the best handling go cart like fwd super minis on the market it's handling has been raved about by the motoring press and on a dry track/road it can indeed carry more corner speed and hold a tighter line than an S3 but the moment the conditions become less than perfect (and lets be honest on the road you never know what's round the corner) the Audi's 4wd makes it the far more stable and solid car, it won't be thrown off line by pot holes, diesel, or generally ropey camber anywhere near as badly as the fwd equivalent.

[Pooh]

I have a 1999 Top Gear mag where they tested the S3 against the Lotus Elise and Alfa GTV V6 and they said that the S3 did not handle very well because the 4wd system kept swapping the power backwards and forwards between the front and back wheels.

[mel]

I'd agree 100% and the S3 is a shockingly poor track day car for exactly those reasons, however in the real world hit a pot hole mid greasey roundabout in either of the other two (actually that's a guess on the Alfa as I haven't driven one) and they will jump and skip wide, the lump of lard S3 with the advantage of 4wd will simply hold the line which in my book makes it a better, more practical and safer everyday car.

[JonRB]

What mel says. And you can shave his boocks if it isn't true.

Again.

[Welshbeef]

No I have not driven a high powered 4wd.
However I do drive a high powered Fwd and I do not suffer the under steer you mention on roundabouts etc.

What you can do is firstly learn the way your car handles then adapt your driving style to get the best out of the car remember slow in fast out is far better than fast in slow slow out.

Also if your going thhat fast round a round a bout say a cyclist pulls out you have no chance of stopping take it slower its safer and note Reading to Cardiff if you drive at 70mph v 85mph you will arrive a mere 15 mins earlier ... and thats long distance 110miles go shorterdistance and then you will gain less time.

Note this morning in a 40mph there was a Black Seat Ibiza Cupra (looked the latest shape) on its roof now the road wasnt greasy it was normal and its a clear blue sky day here. Now Ive had "moments" in the past but 40mph with no dips in the road just a 75degree+ corner = either he had a blow out and was going way too fast as if he was going 40mph with a sudden blow out he would simply oversteer into the shrubs on the other side of the road Or some other bizarre reason either way speed certainly was involved in the accident.