Audi S3 1.8t tuning by Angel tuning
Discussion
Just had a remap and uprated panel filter (combo deal) done on my S3 by Angel tuning. Cost me £300 exactly and since I can find no other reports of Angel tuning remapping S3's on tintaweb I just thought I'd write a quick report to say how impressed I am!
Coming from a TVR cerbera (looking for a replacement I could use every day with heated seats and to save a bit of money)I had been thinking that the S3 was a bit tame and had been looking at various big turbo options to improve things. After much research and a quick look at my bank balance I desided to try a remap first and then see how I felt.
I have used Angel tuning before but only for diesels so I only really half heartedly phoned them to ask if they knew the S3 and could do anything.. turns out they are rather more able than I first thought and have done engine out testing on a full engine dyno to create their own unique map for the car.
First impressions are.. wow! What a difference! In the low gears it's gone from having a firm swell of power to an original subaru sti rivaling wallop that really snaps your head back. In the high gears (particularly 6th) it has improved the car so drematically that you never ever need to down change in normal driving. All over the rev range and in all gears it is now much smoother and more confident on even a light throttle and full throttle is enough to give effortless overtaking even in 6th from 45-50mph. The car is just infinately more relaxing to drive and seems to float up hills eating miles like a big diesel saloon rather than a little 1.8t hatch. I am now totally in love.
Better still I have found that it is genuinely now much easier to achieve higher mpg figures than the standard car. On a good long run (driving sensibly but no silly slowing down up hills, watching the mpg display etc) my car standard would average about 38mpg. Now with the exact same driving style I find the mpg seems to sit happily at just over 40mpg. Honestly I am so happy with it that I cannot se why anyone would go to the hassle, expense and risk of doing any more to the car?!
Ovarall top marks. It has made a very good car into one of the very best I've ever driven.
Just for the record my car has a full history but 103,000miles, original clutch, original turbo and is totally standard apart from the works above.
Hope anyone considering the S3 or who owns an s3 will read the above and make the right choice.. You will not be dissapointed!
Coming from a TVR cerbera (looking for a replacement I could use every day with heated seats and to save a bit of money)I had been thinking that the S3 was a bit tame and had been looking at various big turbo options to improve things. After much research and a quick look at my bank balance I desided to try a remap first and then see how I felt.
I have used Angel tuning before but only for diesels so I only really half heartedly phoned them to ask if they knew the S3 and could do anything.. turns out they are rather more able than I first thought and have done engine out testing on a full engine dyno to create their own unique map for the car.
First impressions are.. wow! What a difference! In the low gears it's gone from having a firm swell of power to an original subaru sti rivaling wallop that really snaps your head back. In the high gears (particularly 6th) it has improved the car so drematically that you never ever need to down change in normal driving. All over the rev range and in all gears it is now much smoother and more confident on even a light throttle and full throttle is enough to give effortless overtaking even in 6th from 45-50mph. The car is just infinately more relaxing to drive and seems to float up hills eating miles like a big diesel saloon rather than a little 1.8t hatch. I am now totally in love.
Better still I have found that it is genuinely now much easier to achieve higher mpg figures than the standard car. On a good long run (driving sensibly but no silly slowing down up hills, watching the mpg display etc) my car standard would average about 38mpg. Now with the exact same driving style I find the mpg seems to sit happily at just over 40mpg. Honestly I am so happy with it that I cannot se why anyone would go to the hassle, expense and risk of doing any more to the car?!
Ovarall top marks. It has made a very good car into one of the very best I've ever driven.
Just for the record my car has a full history but 103,000miles, original clutch, original turbo and is totally standard apart from the works above.
Hope anyone considering the S3 or who owns an s3 will read the above and make the right choice.. You will not be dissapointed!
hi fella,
I am often surprised by peoples veiw that the S3 is a bit tame for a 225hp 4x4 car so th review you have done is quite interesting especially that the post remap results are both more power and better economy as it is very rare for those two to go hand in hand.
Do you know roughly how much extra power and torque you now have as a result? I have heard of mixed results from 250-280hp and i suspect 280 is rather ambitious.
The next natural step would be to uprate the haldex to allow you to shift some more power to the rear for that extra grin factor ;-)
dave
I am often surprised by peoples veiw that the S3 is a bit tame for a 225hp 4x4 car so th review you have done is quite interesting especially that the post remap results are both more power and better economy as it is very rare for those two to go hand in hand.
Do you know roughly how much extra power and torque you now have as a result? I have heard of mixed results from 250-280hp and i suspect 280 is rather ambitious.
The next natural step would be to uprate the haldex to allow you to shift some more power to the rear for that extra grin factor ;-)
dave
Dave,
I totally agree that the standard car is by no means slow! But the map just breaks the barrier between a swift car and something properly quick. The standard car never feels urgent, just smooth and powerful. Best way I can describe it is that on the 225 wide p zero rosso’s on my car it definitely felt like it had more than enough grip for the power (you could use full power in 2nd in a bend for example). Now it feels like it has more power than grip and even in a straight line in 2nd it will chatter the wheels on anything but a perfectly dry surface. When turning the car will slip wide even in third if too much throttle is used. Hope this helps.
Not had the car on the dyno so can't comment on what the power really is but Angel Tuning believe a 50bhp increase is a safe figure for a remap on the 225 model. That would give approx 275bhp as a baseline if the original car was running its factory figure. Given the obvious increase in boost (given away by the now very obvious Group B style squelch, flutter, flutter sound effects – which I love – if you back off the power too quickly) and given my fairly well adjusted backside dyno I would say 280bhp feels in the right ballpark.
The closest feeling car I’ve been in to the mapped S3 is an import Subaru Sti with a bb turbo and ss exhaust which was running 280-300bhp at the time. Feels perhaps slightly faster than a standard skyline R33gtr and not as quick as a chipped one. That said it doesn’t feel noticeably faster than the new S3 which is only 260bhp and heavier, very similar but perhaps a bit more torquey in the higher gears. Very hard to tell.
The Haldex controller is the next mod on the list especially after owning a mk5 R32 which felt much better at transferring power to the rear wheels.
Marc: 40mpg is not typical for day to day driving (more like 30mpg) but on a long run driven mainly at 60-80 with a few overtakes now and then 40mpg is now definitely achievable where before you could never quite get there! I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this is mainly due to being able to stick in 6th and keep the revs down as the turbo is assisting from lower in the rev range where before on a hill you’d need to be in 5th at 50-60 to stop the car labouring.
I totally agree that the standard car is by no means slow! But the map just breaks the barrier between a swift car and something properly quick. The standard car never feels urgent, just smooth and powerful. Best way I can describe it is that on the 225 wide p zero rosso’s on my car it definitely felt like it had more than enough grip for the power (you could use full power in 2nd in a bend for example). Now it feels like it has more power than grip and even in a straight line in 2nd it will chatter the wheels on anything but a perfectly dry surface. When turning the car will slip wide even in third if too much throttle is used. Hope this helps.
Not had the car on the dyno so can't comment on what the power really is but Angel Tuning believe a 50bhp increase is a safe figure for a remap on the 225 model. That would give approx 275bhp as a baseline if the original car was running its factory figure. Given the obvious increase in boost (given away by the now very obvious Group B style squelch, flutter, flutter sound effects – which I love – if you back off the power too quickly) and given my fairly well adjusted backside dyno I would say 280bhp feels in the right ballpark.
The closest feeling car I’ve been in to the mapped S3 is an import Subaru Sti with a bb turbo and ss exhaust which was running 280-300bhp at the time. Feels perhaps slightly faster than a standard skyline R33gtr and not as quick as a chipped one. That said it doesn’t feel noticeably faster than the new S3 which is only 260bhp and heavier, very similar but perhaps a bit more torquey in the higher gears. Very hard to tell.
The Haldex controller is the next mod on the list especially after owning a mk5 R32 which felt much better at transferring power to the rear wheels.
Marc: 40mpg is not typical for day to day driving (more like 30mpg) but on a long run driven mainly at 60-80 with a few overtakes now and then 40mpg is now definitely achievable where before you could never quite get there! I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this is mainly due to being able to stick in 6th and keep the revs down as the turbo is assisting from lower in the rev range where before on a hill you’d need to be in 5th at 50-60 to stop the car labouring.
Edited by Niffty951 on Thursday 30th July 13:52
This is good to hear. I am about to get mine chipped/remapped using Revo.
Have a few mods already (forge hoses, APR R1 diverter valve, N75J to replace the standard N75, BMC CDA and full exhaust) so figure this is the logical last step.
And the haldex controller is a must have imo, transforms the handleing. Mine has one teamed with poly bushes, eibach springs and bilstein chocks.
Have a few mods already (forge hoses, APR R1 diverter valve, N75J to replace the standard N75, BMC CDA and full exhaust) so figure this is the logical last step.
And the haldex controller is a must have imo, transforms the handleing. Mine has one teamed with poly bushes, eibach springs and bilstein chocks.
Not sure about insurance but you will probably need one of these:
My 100k mile old standard item just gave up on life, couldn't take the extra pressure. It started by feeling like an extra long lag period if you changed gear too fast on boost.. now rapidly deteriorated over the last 50miles and when you floor it the car accelerates in a semi boosted state from about 3500rpm right through to over 5000rpm then at about 5500rpm it suddenly catches up with itself and boosts properly. That's the worst case scenario anyway. You can get it to work properly on occasion but I'm taking it a bit easy till my new DV valve with yellow spring arrives on tue
To the chap with all the mods I cant believe you have managed to resist this long with that list!! I'm doing the same thing in reverse (Do have the same springs though
My 100k mile old standard item just gave up on life, couldn't take the extra pressure. It started by feeling like an extra long lag period if you changed gear too fast on boost.. now rapidly deteriorated over the last 50miles and when you floor it the car accelerates in a semi boosted state from about 3500rpm right through to over 5000rpm then at about 5500rpm it suddenly catches up with itself and boosts properly. That's the worst case scenario anyway. You can get it to work properly on occasion but I'm taking it a bit easy till my new DV valve with yellow spring arrives on tue
To the chap with all the mods I cant believe you have managed to resist this long with that list!! I'm doing the same thing in reverse (Do have the same springs though
Edited by Niffty951 on Friday 31st July 12:52
ARRGG talk about un-expected bills!!! Car went into audi for an oil change today they tell me the sump plug is stripped so I need a new sump (cant 'prove' they did it so thats £200) and the front and rear anti roll bars are worn/cracked (believable) so I'm changing to super chunky 26mm front and 24mm rear \eibech ARB's £750 inc fitting :0 !!! \suddenly my oil change is over £1,000! Ouch.. hello overdraft my olf friend.
These ARB's had better be good. Maybe I need more power to justify them now?? Hmmm;)
On a different note of tuning, does anyone know if there are any swaps that can be done to upgrade the standard clutch or brakes using standard parts from another vag group car? For example the gti 150 golf owners use VR6 clutches to upgrade for minimal cost and standard like reliability/drivability.
Does the 240hp 1.8t TT have a tougher clutch for example? Or can you use the new S3/golf r32 brakes on a 99 S3?
Any knowledge would be greatfully recieved.
These ARB's had better be good. Maybe I need more power to justify them now?? Hmmm;)
On a different note of tuning, does anyone know if there are any swaps that can be done to upgrade the standard clutch or brakes using standard parts from another vag group car? For example the gti 150 golf owners use VR6 clutches to upgrade for minimal cost and standard like reliability/drivability.
Does the 240hp 1.8t TT have a tougher clutch for example? Or can you use the new S3/golf r32 brakes on a 99 S3?
Any knowledge would be greatfully recieved.
Thanks.. as this is fast becoming an open S3 tuning topic (mainly because of me sorry) what's the opinion of anyone knowledgeable (Colonial?;) ) about my latest scheme for a bit more mumbo.
I used to spend a lot of time fiddling with 944 turbo's and in that scene I learnt the best possible (cost/benefit) upgrade was to chip the car to remove the standard boost cut, add a 3bar fuel pressure regulator (in place of the 2.5bar item), then bypass the cars factory boost control system completely and map your own route of vacuum lines so that the wastegate signal runs directly off the intake through an aftermarket electronic boost controller. This seemed to yield 310+bhp and 350+ft/lb torque at the flywheel from a standard 250bhp model car far more reliably than chips alone on a dyno.
...so I started thinking. The most common upgrade for the turbo on the 1.8T is the standard K04 used on our car with a wastegate mod and better downpipe correct? This is capable of over 300hp (figures vary) and the internals crank etc are safe for 350bhp so basically if I get it to hold enough boost and still fuel correctly I should be able in principle to tweak it from 280ish flywheel hp to 300-310bhp for the cost of a fuel pressure regulator, vacuum lines and an EBC? All without changing any major mechanical components which would give me a nice place to stop tuning if it works.
I can see no reason why the standard ECU won't cope with the necessary adjustments in AF ratio because the car runs a lambda sensor in closed loop as standard, am I correct? So with the remap already giving me better spool characteristics and hopefully removing any factory safety like a boost cut (if the car goes over some set psi) I should be able to run one line off the intake to the DV valve direct, one to the fuel pressure regulator (with a non return valve maybe?), and one to the waste gate through a boost controller. Obviously I would T into the standard system first and set the boost controller to learn the current boost level before I mess around but I can't think of any good reason why this shouldn't allow me to override any weaknesses with the system/ standard wastegate and run an electronically controlled ‘higher’ boost level to higher revs.
Anything I've missed? (insert long sarcastic tuner response here)
I used to spend a lot of time fiddling with 944 turbo's and in that scene I learnt the best possible (cost/benefit) upgrade was to chip the car to remove the standard boost cut, add a 3bar fuel pressure regulator (in place of the 2.5bar item), then bypass the cars factory boost control system completely and map your own route of vacuum lines so that the wastegate signal runs directly off the intake through an aftermarket electronic boost controller. This seemed to yield 310+bhp and 350+ft/lb torque at the flywheel from a standard 250bhp model car far more reliably than chips alone on a dyno.
...so I started thinking. The most common upgrade for the turbo on the 1.8T is the standard K04 used on our car with a wastegate mod and better downpipe correct? This is capable of over 300hp (figures vary) and the internals crank etc are safe for 350bhp so basically if I get it to hold enough boost and still fuel correctly I should be able in principle to tweak it from 280ish flywheel hp to 300-310bhp for the cost of a fuel pressure regulator, vacuum lines and an EBC? All without changing any major mechanical components which would give me a nice place to stop tuning if it works.
I can see no reason why the standard ECU won't cope with the necessary adjustments in AF ratio because the car runs a lambda sensor in closed loop as standard, am I correct? So with the remap already giving me better spool characteristics and hopefully removing any factory safety like a boost cut (if the car goes over some set psi) I should be able to run one line off the intake to the DV valve direct, one to the fuel pressure regulator (with a non return valve maybe?), and one to the waste gate through a boost controller. Obviously I would T into the standard system first and set the boost controller to learn the current boost level before I mess around but I can't think of any good reason why this shouldn't allow me to override any weaknesses with the system/ standard wastegate and run an electronically controlled ‘higher’ boost level to higher revs.
Anything I've missed? (insert long sarcastic tuner response here)
Niffty951 said:
Thanks.. as this is fast becoming an open S3 tuning topic (mainly because of me sorry) what's the opinion of anyone knowledgeable (Colonial?;) ) about my latest scheme for a bit more mumbo.
I used to spend a lot of time fiddling with 944 turbo's and in that scene I learnt the best possible (cost/benefit) upgrade was to chip the car to remove the standard boost cut, add a 3bar fuel pressure regulator (in place of the 2.5bar item), then bypass the cars factory boost control system completely and map your own route of vacuum lines so that the wastegate signal runs directly off the intake through an aftermarket electronic boost controller. This seemed to yield 310+bhp and 350+ft/lb torque at the flywheel from a standard 250bhp model car far more reliably than chips alone on a dyno.
...so I started thinking. The most common upgrade for the turbo on the 1.8T is the standard K04 used on our car with a wastegate mod and better downpipe correct? This is capable of over 300hp (figures vary) and the internals crank etc are safe for 350bhp so basically if I get it to hold enough boost and still fuel correctly I should be able in principle to tweak it from 280ish flywheel hp to 300-310bhp for the cost of a fuel pressure regulator, vacuum lines and an EBC? All without changing any major mechanical components which would give me a nice place to stop tuning if it works.
I can see no reason why the standard ECU won't cope with the necessary adjustments in AF ratio because the car runs a lambda sensor in closed loop as standard, am I correct? So with the remap already giving me better spool characteristics and hopefully removing any factory safety like a boost cut (if the car goes over some set psi) I should be able to run one line off the intake to the DV valve direct, one to the fuel pressure regulator (with a non return valve maybe?), and one to the waste gate through a boost controller. Obviously I would T into the standard system first and set the boost controller to learn the current boost level before I mess around but I can't think of any good reason why this shouldn't allow me to override any weaknesses with the system/ standard wastegate and run an electronically controlled ‘higher’ boost level to higher revs.
Anything I've missed? (insert long sarcastic tuner response here)
Hmmm. Let me mull over that one for a little bit. I like thinking outside the box. If you go down that path I would recommend you consider doing the exhaust a 3" dump pipe as well though. The dump pipe is quite restrective as standard due to space requirements. I used to spend a lot of time fiddling with 944 turbo's and in that scene I learnt the best possible (cost/benefit) upgrade was to chip the car to remove the standard boost cut, add a 3bar fuel pressure regulator (in place of the 2.5bar item), then bypass the cars factory boost control system completely and map your own route of vacuum lines so that the wastegate signal runs directly off the intake through an aftermarket electronic boost controller. This seemed to yield 310+bhp and 350+ft/lb torque at the flywheel from a standard 250bhp model car far more reliably than chips alone on a dyno.
...so I started thinking. The most common upgrade for the turbo on the 1.8T is the standard K04 used on our car with a wastegate mod and better downpipe correct? This is capable of over 300hp (figures vary) and the internals crank etc are safe for 350bhp so basically if I get it to hold enough boost and still fuel correctly I should be able in principle to tweak it from 280ish flywheel hp to 300-310bhp for the cost of a fuel pressure regulator, vacuum lines and an EBC? All without changing any major mechanical components which would give me a nice place to stop tuning if it works.
I can see no reason why the standard ECU won't cope with the necessary adjustments in AF ratio because the car runs a lambda sensor in closed loop as standard, am I correct? So with the remap already giving me better spool characteristics and hopefully removing any factory safety like a boost cut (if the car goes over some set psi) I should be able to run one line off the intake to the DV valve direct, one to the fuel pressure regulator (with a non return valve maybe?), and one to the waste gate through a boost controller. Obviously I would T into the standard system first and set the boost controller to learn the current boost level before I mess around but I can't think of any good reason why this shouldn't allow me to override any weaknesses with the system/ standard wastegate and run an electronically controlled ‘higher’ boost level to higher revs.
Anything I've missed? (insert long sarcastic tuner response here)
A little more research and a lot of confusion between people as to whether our cars have 3bar or 4bar fuel pressure regulators as standard but the general picture seems to be that the S3 has bigger injectors than the golf etc so doesn't need a fpr to get over 300bhp result!! No adjustments needed to the map at all! This is just getting easier and easier.
result!! No adjustments needed to the map at all! This is just getting easier and easier.I'm going down a reverse path - have the APR R1 DV, N75j, Forge hoses, BMC CDA, 3" downpipe and other things fitted but no chip.
Really interested in a co. out of Cali called Unitronic that does both chips and custom tunes. Considering my car has some unusal mods (cams with disconnected VVT for one) they might be coming up with a very interesting custom tune through their Sydney office. Slightly different to the standard Revo/APR/Giac option.
And I got the same answer back from another mate with an S3
Really interested in a co. out of Cali called Unitronic that does both chips and custom tunes. Considering my car has some unusal mods (cams with disconnected VVT for one) they might be coming up with a very interesting custom tune through their Sydney office. Slightly different to the standard Revo/APR/Giac option.
And I got the same answer back from another mate with an S3
Niffty951 said:
Marc: 40mpg is not typical for day to day driving (more like 30mpg) but on a long run driven mainly at 60-80 with a few overtakes now and then 40mpg is now definitely achievable where before you could never quite get there! I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this is mainly due to being able to stick in 6th and keep the revs down as the turbo is assisting from lower in the rev range where before on a hill you’d need to be in 5th at 50-60 to stop the car labouring.
MrsTwo used to drive the car like a saint and only managed 35mpg tops on a long motorway cruise at 70mph. If you are getting 40mpg, you are the only person I have ever heard of who could. Don't trust the numbers on the DIS.Edited by Niffty951 on Thursday 30th July 13:52
I'm also not sure about the fluttering sound you describe. I never had that on my car, although there was a much more noticable turbo 'sucking' sound when on boost.
I think 275bhp is too optimistic for just a remap. Mine recorded 270bhp on a rolling road but even that is probably a bit too high. I think realistic numbers are around 260bhp. Some tuners have a tendancy to give out pub bragging numbers rather than something more accurate.
I agree with your description about how a new map really takes the car from being brisk to being fast. I still think it often felt faster than the S4 I have now, and I can only dream of getting 35mpg!
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