Audi S3 1.8t tuning by Angel tuning

[Niffty951]

marctwo said:

Niffty951 said:

Marc: 40mpg is not typical for day to day driving (more like 30mpg) but on a long run driven mainly at 60-80 with a few overtakes now and then 40mpg is now definitely achievable where before you could never quite get there! I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that this is mainly due to being able to stick in 6th and keep the revs down as the turbo is assisting from lower in the rev range where before on a hill you’d need to be in 5th at 50-60 to stop the car labouring.

Edited by Niffty951 on Thursday 30th July 13:52

MrsTwo used to drive the car like a saint and only managed 35mpg tops on a long motorway cruise at 70mph. If you are getting 40mpg, you are the only person I have ever heard of who could. Don't trust the numbers on the DIS.

I'm also not sure about the fluttering sound you describe. I never had that on my car, although there was a much more noticable turbo 'sucking' sound when on boost.

I think 275bhp is too optimistic for just a remap. Mine recorded 270bhp on a rolling road but even that is probably a bit too high. I think realistic numbers are around 260bhp. Some tuners have a tendancy to give out pub bragging numbers rather than something more accurate.

I agree with your description about how a new map really takes the car from being brisk to being fast. I still think it often felt faster than the S4 I have now, and I can only dream of getting 35mpg!

Should have stated those consumption figures came from the digital display not scientifically proven, once tested the display on my Mk5 R32 though and it was suprisingly accurate! Agreed with my maths to whithin 1mpg. Figured it must run off the mileometer signal rather than the speedo as the speedo was a steady 10% out. I will test the s3 at the end of this full tank and report. Other than that, figures can vary from car to car and I'm very careful with throttle when trying to be economical. Only got 37.7 on the display last motorway drive though tbh

I'm guessing you have the 2.7tt S4? I had the A4 2.8 Quattro and by god could it upset me with its figures I've heard even though its a lot less powerful, figures are similar to the S4 for normal driving! Went for the S3 over the S4 which I prefer in terms of interior purely on the fact that I need to do lots of miles and don't have a never ending wallet!

Totally agree on tuner figures and will not say with any confidence what my car is running until it's been on a dyno. Does feel very possitive though. I think 280bhp from a map could be achievable from some cars. Just depends on the condition and original build of the engine I suppose. I remember a totally standard 250bhp 944 which was well over 100,000miles old and produced 285hp on a dyno day where some modified 944's wouldn't even reach their factory 250 figure!

[The Walrus]

Be carefull the ECU and MAF on VAG cars are very sensitive to airflow and tinkering with this will cause you problems.

As for 300 + BHP there has been many discussions regarding achieving this on the standard turbo, the harsh truth of the matter is that on standard fuels etc the turbo can not push enough air to make these figure's, a lot and I mean a lot of tuners have stated they make 300 bhp but VAG car's being as they are it can be very easy to over read on the DYNO due to the conversion factors used.

If you want more power concentrate on the exhaust in combination with a larger TIP you will get better spool up and power, beyond that you are into BT territory, have a check on seatcupra.net and audisport for a bit more info on what can be done on the standard turbo and block.

HTH

[Niffty951]

Colonial said:

I'm going down a reverse path - have the APR R1 DV, N75j, Forge hoses, BMC CDA, 3" downpipe and other things fitted but no chip.

Really interested in a co. out of Cali called Unitronic that does both chips and custom tunes. Considering my car has some unusal mods (cams with disconnected VVT for one) they might be coming up with a very interesting custom tune through their Sydney office. Slightly different to the standard Revo/APR/Giac option.

And I got the same answer back from another mate with an S3

The 3" downpipe I will probably fit before I start. Just sounds like a safe option to avoid a build up of heat from all that extra pressure.

Very interested in your choice to change cams. I know that with the standard s3 they opted for a different cam to the 2wd cars to help torque low down for the 4wd which made it less rev happy. I have wondered whether changing to a golf cam would be a benefit now the car has extra boost and so plenty of torque low down but not sure if I'd be going backwards?

[Niffty951]

The Walrus said:

Be carefull the ECU and MAF on VAG cars are very sensitive to airflow and tinkering with this will cause you problems.

As for 300 + BHP there has been many discussions regarding achieving this on the standard turbo, the harsh truth of the matter is that on standard fuels etc the turbo can not push enough air to make these figure's, a lot and I mean a lot of tuners have stated they make 300 bhp but VAG car's being as they are it can be very easy to over read on the DYNO due to the conversion factors used.

If you want more power concentrate on the exhaust in combination with a larger TIP you will get better spool up and power, beyond that you are into BT territory, have a check on seatcupra.net and audisport for a bit more info on what can be done on the standard turbo and block.

HTH

Thank you. are their discussions mainly relating to the K03 from the 150-180bhp engines or the k04 option fitted to the 210-240bhp engines though? Given my experience with tuners (almost all bad!) I would very much like to limit the parts I change and therefore how reliant I am on them.

Big turbo kits whilst hugely tempting on paper sound like trouble to me. If the K04 really can't produce those peak figures then I suppose I'll just have to try and get BIG torque figures and be happy.

[marctwo]

Niffty951 said:

Should have stated those consumption figures came from the digital display not scientifically proven, once tested the display on my Mk5 R32 though and it was suprisingly accurate! Agreed with my maths to whithin 1mpg. Figured it must run off the mileometer signal rather than the speedo as the speedo was a steady 10% out. I will test the s3 at the end of this full tank and report. Other than that, figures can vary from car to car and I'm very careful with throttle when trying to be economical. Only got 37.7 on the display last motorway drive though tbh

I'm guessing you have the 2.7tt S4? I had the A4 2.8 Quattro and by god could it upset me with its figures I've heard even though its a lot less powerful, figures are similar to the S4 for normal driving! Went for the S3 over the S4 which I prefer in terms of interior purely on the fact that I need to do lots of miles and don't have a never ending wallet!

Totally agree on tuner figures and will not say with any confidence what my car is running until it's been on a dyno. Does feel very possitive though. I think 280bhp from a map could be achievable from some cars. Just depends on the condition and original build of the engine I suppose. I remember a totally standard 250bhp 944 which was well over 100,000miles old and produced 285hp on a dyno day where some modified 944's wouldn't even reach their factory 250 figure!

It's the 4.2 V8 and I have got a maximum of 29.7mpg at 70mph with cruise control. Driving 'normally' I'll get around 26mpg on a run and 16mpg in town. Eeek.

[Traveller]

The cupra R has the same engine as the S3, and it is very unlikely you are getting 300+ without a turbo change. Been a few hybrid turbos that have rung up the 300 mark and some big turbo conversion getting 450 and above, but no map and tuning bits is going to get you into the 300 club.

Best tuning options I have seen for BAM motor is an upgraded TIP, custom map, exhaust and FPR. Which should get you into the 275 BHP region. Anything more, and you are into new turbo and expensive bits territory or NOS. Lots of tuning advice for this motor on the seatcupra.net website. If you are looking for brakes, then the Cupra R Brembos are a good option, but you will need 18" rims to clear the callipers.

Edited by Traveller on Tuesday 4th August 11:25

[The Walrus]

Niffty951 said:

The Walrus said:

Be careful the ECU and MAF on VAG cars are very sensitive to airflow and tinkering with this will cause you problems.

As for 300 + BHP there has been many discussions regarding achieving this on the standard turbo, the harsh truth of the matter is that on standard fuels etc the turbo can not push enough air to make these figure's, a lot and I mean a lot of tuners have stated they make 300 bhp but VAG car's being as they are it can be very easy to over read on the DYNO due to the conversion factors used.

If you want more power concentrate on the exhaust in combination with a larger TIP you will get better spool up and power, beyond that you are into BT territory, have a check on seatcupra.net and audisport for a bit more info on what can be done on the standard turbo and block.

HTH

Thank you. are their discussions mainly relating to the K03 from the 150-180bhp engines or the k04 option fitted to the 210-240bhp engines though? Given my experience with tuners (almost all bad!) I would very much like to limit the parts I change and therefore how reliant I am on them.

Big turbo kits whilst hugely tempting on paper sound like trouble to me. If the K04 really can't produce those peak figures then I suppose I'll just have to try and get BIG torque figures and be happy.

That would be the BAM engine and the other one can't remember the code off the top of my head, KO4 turbo with the lower compression strengthened block.

You may not get more torque in total numbers but you will get a better spread of it with the down pipe and earlier spool up, if you think the map transforms the car trust me the down pipe is similar it really makes a difference

[Colonial]

Niffty951 said:

Colonial said:

I'm going down a reverse path - have the APR R1 DV, N75j, Forge hoses, BMC CDA, 3" downpipe and other things fitted but no chip.

Really interested in a co. out of Cali called Unitronic that does both chips and custom tunes. Considering my car has some unusal mods (cams with disconnected VVT for one) they might be coming up with a very interesting custom tune through their Sydney office. Slightly different to the standard Revo/APR/Giac option.

And I got the same answer back from another mate with an S3

The 3" downpipe I will probably fit before I start. Just sounds like a safe option to avoid a build up of heat from all that extra pressure.

Very interested in your choice to change cams. I know that with the standard s3 they opted for a different cam to the 2wd cars to help torque low down for the 4wd which made it less rev happy. I have wondered whether changing to a golf cam would be a benefit now the car has extra boost and so plenty of torque low down but not sure if I'd be going backwards?

I'm not sold on the cam yet to be honest. It was fitted whilst the head was off (needed the timing chain tensioner replaced) and they were sitting on the shelf. It's got a lot more power from about 4000+ but the trade off is it is a lot more laggy down low. Basically my mechanic is a race engine builder first and he just likes playing with my car. I'm half thinking of reverting back to stock for driveability on a daily basis. I used cams that came from the US that were designed for a TT, so the same basic engine.

[HighlandBling]

Greendubber said:

I'd say that the 1.8T is one of the most 'remapable' engines there is

When I had mine done I couldnt get over how much better it is

i would agree with that statement, even my bog standard 150 variant went like a bat out of hell afterwards, did need a new N75J and TT225 DV in time.
The power increase was good, but it wasnt the top end BHP figure that made it, it was how early the torque came in and for how long.

Edited by HighlandBling on Tuesday 4th August 12:09

[Matt_N]

The Walrus said:

Niffty951 said:

The Walrus said:

Be careful the ECU and MAF on VAG cars are very sensitive to airflow and tinkering with this will cause you problems.

As for 300 + BHP there has been many discussions regarding achieving this on the standard turbo, the harsh truth of the matter is that on standard fuels etc the turbo can not push enough air to make these figure's, a lot and I mean a lot of tuners have stated they make 300 bhp but VAG car's being as they are it can be very easy to over read on the DYNO due to the conversion factors used.

If you want more power concentrate on the exhaust in combination with a larger TIP you will get better spool up and power, beyond that you are into BT territory, have a check on seatcupra.net and audisport for a bit more info on what can be done on the standard turbo and block.

HTH

Thank you. are their discussions mainly relating to the K03 from the 150-180bhp engines or the k04 option fitted to the 210-240bhp engines though? Given my experience with tuners (almost all bad!) I would very much like to limit the parts I change and therefore how reliant I am on them.

Big turbo kits whilst hugely tempting on paper sound like trouble to me. If the K04 really can't produce those peak figures then I suppose I'll just have to try and get BIG torque figures and be happy.

That would be the BAM engine and the other one can't remember the code off the top of my head, KO4 turbo with the lower compression strengthened block.

AMK in the Cupra isnt it?

[Traveller]

Matt_N said:

AMK in the Cupra isnt it?

AMK is the early 210 BHP Cupra R, BAM is the 225 model, basic difference is the engine map, otherwise the identical engine.

[Niffty951]

Traveller said:

The cupra R has the same engine as the S3, and it is very unlikely you are getting 300+ without a turbo change. Been a few hybrid turbos that have rung up the 300 mark and some big turbo conversion getting 450 and above, but no map and tuning bits is going to get you into the 300 club.

Best tuning options I have seen for BAM motor is an upgraded TIP, custom map, exhaust and FPR. Which should get you into the 275 BHP region. Anything more, and you are into new turbo and expensive bits territory or NOS. Lots of tuning advice for this motor on the seatcupra.net website. If you are looking for brakes, then the Cupra R Brembos are a good option, but you will need 18" rims to clear the callipers.

I will try my best to prove popular theory wrong on getting to 300hp with the standard unit because I don't believe they do that much to make their 'hybrid' k04's but in the end I'd be very pleased/pleasantly surprised if my experiment succeeded.

Thankyou VERY much on the brakes. You have just solved one of my biggest concerns ..why didn't I think of that?! That will be what I go for next month unless I somehow find an aftermarket kit I prefer in the near future.

Edited by Niffty951 on Tuesday 4th August 13:52

[Niffty951]

ps Very interesting comments on the downpipe. Thats the third independant source saying it makes a big difference (including a mechanic at VW). It will be done.

Edited by Niffty951 on Tuesday 4th August 13:55

[Niffty951]

Colonial said:

I'm not sold on the cam yet to be honest. It was fitted whilst the head was off (needed the timing chain tensioner replaced) and they were sitting on the shelf. It's got a lot more power from about 4000+ but the trade off is it is a lot more laggy down low. Basically my mechanic is a race engine builder first and he just likes playing with my car. I'm half thinking of reverting back to stock for driveability on a daily basis. I used cams that came from the US that were designed for a TT, so the same basic engine.

Cam to be avoided. Money saved. This thread is turning out to be very helpful thanks to all.

[The Walrus]

Niffty951 said:

Traveller said:

The cupra R has the same engine as the S3, and it is very unlikely you are getting 300+ without a turbo change. Been a few hybrid turbos that have rung up the 300 mark and some big turbo conversion getting 450 and above, but no map and tuning bits is going to get you into the 300 club.

Best tuning options I have seen for BAM motor is an upgraded TIP, custom map, exhaust and FPR. Which should get you into the 275 BHP region. Anything more, and you are into new turbo and expensive bits territory or NOS. Lots of tuning advice for this motor on the seatcupra.net website. If you are looking for brakes, then the Cupra R Brembos are a good option, but you will need 18" rims to clear the callipers.

I will try my best to prove popular theory wrong on getting to 300hp with the standard unit because I don't believe they do that much to make their 'hybrid' k04's but in the end I'd be very pleased/pleasantly surprised if my experiment succeeded.

Thankyou VERY much on the brakes. You have just solved one of my biggest concerns ..why didn't I think of that?! That will be what I go for next month unless I somehow find an aftermarket kit I prefer in the near future.

Edited by Niffty951 on Tuesday 4th August 13:52

The other option is the brembo junior kit very similar to the Leon Cupra kit but you do not need such a high offset to clear the callipers as you do on the Leon Cupra, plus you get the carriers for the junior kit rather than having to source the other bits separately.

The other option's are the R32 mk4 or TT MK1 V6 calipers, carriers and discs and they fit in 17's as do the juniors from brembo, plus the boxster S kit can be had from places like awesome GTI in kit form for not too much money.

But you could also just try upgrading the pad compound and brake fluid as that can also make a big difference to fade performance and is a lot cheaper if you only do the odd trackday.

[Niffty951]

The Walrus said:

But you could also just try upgrading the pad compound and brake fluid as that can also make a big difference to fade performance and is a lot cheaper if you only do the odd trackday.

A most informative post. Thanks again. Judging on the size of the cloud of smoke pouring out of my arches last time the car was driven competatively, I think I'm going to have to look at something with a bit more surface area though. I have some roomy looking 18inch BBS wheels which came with the car so should be ok to use most kits. Where would you recommend looking for the necessary caliper adapters? Also can anyone comment on how much this affects brake ballance and what upgrades are available for the rear of the car. I had smoke bellowing out from all four arches so I think its safe to say the rears are in need of an upgrade too.

[The Walrus]

The two websites mentioned by me and another member are good places to start as you will no doubt find someone selling the parts you are looking for. I can't access them from work just this place for some reason ?

The rear's are a bit of a black art so to speak, I have had both friends and acquaintances using the uprated 308mm ECS Tuning rear kit, it uses the standard calliper but with different carrier and large floating disc, the feedback I heard was it did not seem to make a great deal of difference but bear in mind in all cases they had uprated fronts to either a mk4 R32 set up or Porsche 4 pots of some description.

ECS tuning have a fair bit of stuff on their website tailored to wards all options of brake upgrade whether it be complete or partial upgrades have a look as it might answer some of your questions.

[Niffty951]

The Walrus said:

ECS tuning have a fair bit of stuff on their website tailored to wards all options of brake upgrade whether it be complete or partial upgrades have a look as it might answer some of your questions.

Oh dear you evil person! That ECS website is probably more dangerous / as dangerous as a 1 day, drive in drive out 400hp conversion for £4k!

[The Walrus]

Niffty951 said:

The Walrus said:

ECS tuning have a fair bit of stuff on their website tailored to wards all options of brake upgrade whether it be complete or partial upgrades have a look as it might answer some of your questions.

Oh dear you evil person! That ECS website is probably more dangerous / as dangerous as a 1 day, drive in drive out 400hp conversion for £4k!

JBR Performance are on of the UK importers

[Niffty951]

Car back today with new anti roll bars fitted by audi and 4 wheel alignment done. Parts were suplied by DPM:

http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/eibach-26mm-front-...

Who did very well to get them delivered in under 20hours for me So thumbs up to Damion who I spoke to.

First impressions are that it now feels remarkably similar to drive to my old Mk5 R32.. which is high praise. VERY firm, no roll. The difference is immediately noticable (although this is possible partly due to the fact that the old ones were knackered). I will report back further once I've had a chance to drive the car a little more enthusiastically