Audi S3 1.8t tuning by Angel tuning
Discussion
just been reading your original comments about the remap you've had done, i have found it compelling me to look into buying an s3 maybe next year at some point.
Alot of the cars in the classifieds seem to have been remapped, would you say this is something that may effect the reliability of the car or is this engine able to deal with the power gains ok? does the car eat tyres/ cost alot to maintain. in general on first inspection the costs seem very reasonable considering the performance the car will deliver with the remap. even insurance seems quite reasonable (i'm 21 but speculatively would be 22) any comment would be appreciated.
" Honestly I am so happy with it that I cannot se why anyone would go to the hassle, expense and risk of doing any more to the car?!"
I see since this post you seem to have been bitten by the power bug! haha
great thred, interesting reading!
Alot of the cars in the classifieds seem to have been remapped, would you say this is something that may effect the reliability of the car or is this engine able to deal with the power gains ok? does the car eat tyres/ cost alot to maintain. in general on first inspection the costs seem very reasonable considering the performance the car will deliver with the remap. even insurance seems quite reasonable (i'm 21 but speculatively would be 22) any comment would be appreciated.
" Honestly I am so happy with it that I cannot se why anyone would go to the hassle, expense and risk of doing any more to the car?!"
I see since this post you seem to have been bitten by the power bug! haha
great thred, interesting reading!
I'm having a few problems at the moment which are bugging me (see other tuning thread on here) but besides finding any leak, worn valve, weak part and making it worse to the point you have to change it running an S3 chipped should have very little affect on the reliability of the engine. The only thing I really think your going to strain by chipping one is the clutch because of the 4wd. Also maybe the brakes dependant on your driving style will wear faster because your always trying to scrub off more speed.
I find (if I could stop buying bloody parts for the car and getting tempted to tune it) that running the S3 is amazingly economical and I trust 100% that it will be reliable too once I've found whatever it is thats annoying the car at the moment. The cars runs smoothly, quietly and doesn't get hot at any time in traffic or driving hard. I'd say an S3 was a safe bet.
I find (if I could stop buying bloody parts for the car and getting tempted to tune it) that running the S3 is amazingly economical and I trust 100% that it will be reliable too once I've found whatever it is thats annoying the car at the moment. The cars runs smoothly, quietly and doesn't get hot at any time in traffic or driving hard. I'd say an S3 was a safe bet.
I have a 99 S3 and have recently bought a manual boost controller. It says i need to connect it between the waste gate and the turbo, but theres a pipe coming off the waste gate and goes into im guessing the stock boost controller which has a little screw on top which you can turn to adjust the boost but wont go any higher than 1bar. Does anyone have any ideas as what i need to do to plumb it in, do i unplug and remove the stock controller, leave it in and some how bypass it or.....?
If your going to do it then I would take the valve out of the system completely and plug the hole in the turbo inlet pipe. Then leave the valve somewhere secured in the engine bay still wired in so that the ECU thinks its doing its job.
I'm telling you this because you've bought it and hell anything's worth a try but I've done a lot of research since I started this thread and honestly I don't think its going to have the desired affect.
The ECU is not like the previous generation of units used in Audi / Porsche cars. Rather than adjusting fuelling to suit a boost level where the ECU is basically only doing the job of matching the air going into the engine with the correct amount of fuel to achieve the right air fuel mixture this new type ECU does a lot more.
The S3’s ECU ‘seems’ (to the best of my knowledge) to be mainly controlled by a pre-set chart of cylinder filling percentages (basically it knows how much air and fuel in needs in each cylinder to achieve a certain hp) and it adjusts the fuelling and the boost to suit given the current temperature etc. The boost level is more a result of it trying to achieve its cylinder filling than the other way round so I think if you stop it controlling the boost and fit a manual controller it will just sense there’s a problem (there’s more boost than it needs and it cant control it) and it will go into safe mode or try to reduce power some other way to be safe.
On the plus side I can advise you that the engine is capable in standard form and with the standard turbo of running WAY more than just 1.0bar (safe level on older cars) without coming into problems. I’ve read somewhere that the limit of the turbo is 1.7bar but I can tell you that both the Angel tuning and the Jabbasport re-maps are designed to hold at 1.55bar in optimum conditions (the car will adjust automatically according to the quality of the fuel and air temperature).
Compared to the approximately 0.7bar that the car runs in standard trim this explains why it feels so much more aggressive with a re-map. Such a big difference.
I'm telling you this because you've bought it and hell anything's worth a try but I've done a lot of research since I started this thread and honestly I don't think its going to have the desired affect.
The ECU is not like the previous generation of units used in Audi / Porsche cars. Rather than adjusting fuelling to suit a boost level where the ECU is basically only doing the job of matching the air going into the engine with the correct amount of fuel to achieve the right air fuel mixture this new type ECU does a lot more.
The S3’s ECU ‘seems’ (to the best of my knowledge) to be mainly controlled by a pre-set chart of cylinder filling percentages (basically it knows how much air and fuel in needs in each cylinder to achieve a certain hp) and it adjusts the fuelling and the boost to suit given the current temperature etc. The boost level is more a result of it trying to achieve its cylinder filling than the other way round so I think if you stop it controlling the boost and fit a manual controller it will just sense there’s a problem (there’s more boost than it needs and it cant control it) and it will go into safe mode or try to reduce power some other way to be safe.
On the plus side I can advise you that the engine is capable in standard form and with the standard turbo of running WAY more than just 1.0bar (safe level on older cars) without coming into problems. I’ve read somewhere that the limit of the turbo is 1.7bar but I can tell you that both the Angel tuning and the Jabbasport re-maps are designed to hold at 1.55bar in optimum conditions (the car will adjust automatically according to the quality of the fuel and air temperature).
Compared to the approximately 0.7bar that the car runs in standard trim this explains why it feels so much more aggressive with a re-map. Such a big difference.
p.s. the single best modification I've done so far though is the N249 valve bypass which is the easiest job in the world to do and totally free. There are examples of how to do it on a golf elsewhere but I can easily post one here with your exact car and some pics later if you need?
It totally removed the lag between the gears in my car now so as your accelerating through the box you can keep the car on a seemless cloud of boost, rather than the lumpy 1gear at a time dollops the car did when I bought it.
It totally removed the lag between the gears in my car now so as your accelerating through the box you can keep the car on a seemless cloud of boost, rather than the lumpy 1gear at a time dollops the car did when I bought it.
Niffty951 said:
If your going to do it then I would take the valve out of the system completely and plug the hole in the turbo inlet pipe. Then leave the valve somewhere secured in the engine bay still wired in so that the ECU thinks its doing its job.
I'm telling you this because you've bought it and hell anything's worth a try but I've done a lot of research since I started this thread and honestly I don't think its going to have the desired affect.
The ECU is not like the previous generation of units used in Audi / Porsche cars. Rather than adjusting fuelling to suit a boost level where the ECU is basically only doing the job of matching the air going into the engine with the correct amount of fuel to achieve the right air fuel mixture this new type ECU does a lot more.
The S3’s ECU ‘seems’ (to the best of my knowledge) to be mainly controlled by a pre-set chart of cylinder filling percentages (basically it knows how much air and fuel in needs in each cylinder to achieve a certain hp) and it adjusts the fuelling and the boost to suit given the current temperature etc. The boost level is more a result of it trying to achieve its cylinder filling than the other way round so I think if you stop it controlling the boost and fit a manual controller it will just sense there’s a problem (there’s more boost than it needs and it cant control it) and it will go into safe mode or try to reduce power some other way to be safe.
On the plus side I can advise you that the engine is capable in standard form and with the standard turbo of running WAY more than just 1.0bar (safe level on older cars) without coming into problems. I’ve read somewhere that the limit of the turbo is 1.7bar but I can tell you that both the Angel tuning and the Jabbasport re-maps are designed to hold at 1.55bar in optimum conditions (the car will adjust automatically according to the quality of the fuel and air temperature).
Compared to the approximately 0.7bar that the car runs in standard trim this explains why it feels so much more aggressive with a re-map. Such a big difference.
I fitted it, only took me about 2 minutes if that. Just took the pipes off the valve and put them on to the boost controller t-piece then run a pipe to the controller inside the car. Started of with it pretty much shut and it was running about 5psi which is about 0.3bar then kept turning it up until I got my original 15psi/1bar and made a note of where 1bar is. Then turned it up a couple more clicks and went down the road, it went into "limp" mode once but after that is was fine and running about 1.2bar now. I wasn't sure how much higher I can go so I stopped there.I'm telling you this because you've bought it and hell anything's worth a try but I've done a lot of research since I started this thread and honestly I don't think its going to have the desired affect.
The ECU is not like the previous generation of units used in Audi / Porsche cars. Rather than adjusting fuelling to suit a boost level where the ECU is basically only doing the job of matching the air going into the engine with the correct amount of fuel to achieve the right air fuel mixture this new type ECU does a lot more.
The S3’s ECU ‘seems’ (to the best of my knowledge) to be mainly controlled by a pre-set chart of cylinder filling percentages (basically it knows how much air and fuel in needs in each cylinder to achieve a certain hp) and it adjusts the fuelling and the boost to suit given the current temperature etc. The boost level is more a result of it trying to achieve its cylinder filling than the other way round so I think if you stop it controlling the boost and fit a manual controller it will just sense there’s a problem (there’s more boost than it needs and it cant control it) and it will go into safe mode or try to reduce power some other way to be safe.
On the plus side I can advise you that the engine is capable in standard form and with the standard turbo of running WAY more than just 1.0bar (safe level on older cars) without coming into problems. I’ve read somewhere that the limit of the turbo is 1.7bar but I can tell you that both the Angel tuning and the Jabbasport re-maps are designed to hold at 1.55bar in optimum conditions (the car will adjust automatically according to the quality of the fuel and air temperature).
Compared to the approximately 0.7bar that the car runs in standard trim this explains why it feels so much more aggressive with a re-map. Such a big difference.
Niffty951 said:
p.s. the single best modification I've done so far though is the N249 valve bypass which is the easiest job in the world to do and totally free. There are examples of how to do it on a golf elsewhere but I can easily post one here with your exact car and some pics later if you need?
It totally removed the lag between the gears in my car now so as your accelerating through the box you can keep the car on a seemless cloud of boost, rather than the lumpy 1gear at a time dollops the car did when I bought it.
What does this involve then as my car doesn't do anything until it hits 3000 when the turbo kicks in.It totally removed the lag between the gears in my car now so as your accelerating through the box you can keep the car on a seemless cloud of boost, rather than the lumpy 1gear at a time dollops the car did when I bought it.
Alex_alfa33 said:
I fitted it, only took me about 2 minutes if that. Just took the pipes off the valve and put them on to the boost controller t-piece then run a pipe to the controller inside the car. Started of with it pretty much shut and it was running about 5psi which is about 0.3bar then kept turning it up until I got my original 15psi/1bar and made a note of where 1bar is. Then turned it up a couple more clicks and went down the road, it went into "limp" mode once but after that is was fine and running about 1.2bar now. I wasn't sure how much higher I can go so I stopped there.
I would probably still plug up the holes in the N75 valve you took the vacuum lines off because i would guess the valve is not closed all the time and so could be creating a leak which allows the turbo to draw un-metered air into the system when on boost and there is a vacuum. Probably paranoid as it'll be a small amount but I hate unfinished ends.Interesting results though?? How does it feel now? Much improved?
As for the N249 it is not a miracle cure for lag but where the standard car (mine at least) lost boost when changing gears - even when well above 3000rpm - so that you had to wait a second for boost to build again in the next gear. Now if your attacking the box on full throttle it merges into one smooth acceleration with no drop off in acceleration as you change gear.
To bypass the n249 you need to add a T piece into the vacuum line which feeds the fuel pressure regulator and run a line directly into the DV valve (on top of the turbo inlet pipe above the N75 valve)
Then you block off the hose that you took off the DV valve with a bolt or similar and find the vacuum line that connects the black plastic vacuum tank on top of the engine (on the far right by the coils) and the control valve that sits on top of the engine above the coil packs (middle of engine) and block this off too. I chose to remove the T piece hose that this connects into and replace with a straight section to erase this pipe completely but another bung would service.
This would be a lot easier with pictures which I will try to add later but hopefully this might help?
Edited by Niffty951 on Friday 18th September 16:09
Hmmm I would recommend a visit to www.audi-sport.net first before your engine ends up self destructing with your tinkering lol
You dont have to worry about the bhp, its the torque that kills things....well to be precise the rods. They are only rated upto 300lbs. Anymore and you are taking a risk.
Your anti roll bars are pretty large! Usually the recomended setup is 21 front 19 back.
If you dont have one allready you should think about a fmic. The smic's have been proven do to a pretty poor job under stress from the incredibly hot k04. This tends to cause timing retard i.e loss of power.
There are also certain free mods that can be done to the induction. The standard airbox has been found to be better than a cone filter setup. Removing the fins from inside the box can help and once you get a fmic you can run a larger cold air feed to where the old smic used to reside.
Green panel filters are recommended along with a silicone TIP. Forge are a popular brand.
S3's exhausts flow perfectly well after the DP so no need changing that. But as said DP with the correct map can give a decent power. About 270bhp and 300lbs.
I would save the momey from the haldex upgraded controller and put it towards either brakes. Brembo GT jr kit is great or further suspension work. Bilstein B8 dampers and H&R -25mm springs go together liek peas and carrots..even though I dont like peas.
Anyway theres some info for you. More can be found on that Audi site.
You dont have to worry about the bhp, its the torque that kills things....well to be precise the rods. They are only rated upto 300lbs. Anymore and you are taking a risk.
Your anti roll bars are pretty large! Usually the recomended setup is 21 front 19 back.
If you dont have one allready you should think about a fmic. The smic's have been proven do to a pretty poor job under stress from the incredibly hot k04. This tends to cause timing retard i.e loss of power.
There are also certain free mods that can be done to the induction. The standard airbox has been found to be better than a cone filter setup. Removing the fins from inside the box can help and once you get a fmic you can run a larger cold air feed to where the old smic used to reside.
Green panel filters are recommended along with a silicone TIP. Forge are a popular brand.
S3's exhausts flow perfectly well after the DP so no need changing that. But as said DP with the correct map can give a decent power. About 270bhp and 300lbs.
I would save the momey from the haldex upgraded controller and put it towards either brakes. Brembo GT jr kit is great or further suspension work. Bilstein B8 dampers and H&R -25mm springs go together liek peas and carrots..even though I dont like peas.
Anyway theres some info for you. More can be found on that Audi site.
Chris,
Many thanks and I've just joined audi sport so I can have a good browse.
I am a little suspicious about some of the things you might have read though with relation to the rods. The S3 has a stronger bottom end than the 150/180bhp models and there are many 150bhp cars running 300ft/lb or more without issue.
You always get people trying to justify all the money they've spent changing parts but I've become a sceptic in this area and until someone replies to this post with pictures and a story about how their standard rods failed I'm not going to worry about mine till over 400ft/lb and even then I doubt it'll be the rods that fail!
The intercoolers well its a hard thing to measure so you always get mixed reports but with factors such as pressure drop, volume of charged air, flow patterns taken into consideration I'm happy to leave that one to audi until I actually start seeing problems with excessive intake temperature too... you'd probably get a bigger advantage from heat wrapping the charge pipes where they run above and around the turbo than from changing the intercooler.
These are all just my veiws and I've not tested anything on this car but I do tend to take a lot of other peoples assumptions on forums with a pinch of salt until I see hard evidence.
Many thanks and I've just joined audi sport so I can have a good browse.
I am a little suspicious about some of the things you might have read though with relation to the rods. The S3 has a stronger bottom end than the 150/180bhp models and there are many 150bhp cars running 300ft/lb or more without issue.
You always get people trying to justify all the money they've spent changing parts but I've become a sceptic in this area and until someone replies to this post with pictures and a story about how their standard rods failed I'm not going to worry about mine till over 400ft/lb and even then I doubt it'll be the rods that fail!
The intercoolers well its a hard thing to measure so you always get mixed reports but with factors such as pressure drop, volume of charged air, flow patterns taken into consideration I'm happy to leave that one to audi until I actually start seeing problems with excessive intake temperature too... you'd probably get a bigger advantage from heat wrapping the charge pipes where they run above and around the turbo than from changing the intercooler.
These are all just my veiws and I've not tested anything on this car but I do tend to take a lot of other peoples assumptions on forums with a pinch of salt until I see hard evidence.
Well as you can probably tell by now there are some of us who are somewhat serious about our S3's and "improving" them lol
We dont tend to guess about things and almost everything that can be done has been done and tested thoroughly. Intake temps have been logged with standard intercoolers and you would be suprised just how hot it gets. Front mount makes a huge difference.
Your right there are people with over 300lbs. Not many but there are. I would strongly recommend you dont go anywhere near 400lbs on standard rods. Most other parts your fine, pistons are cetainly good for a decet 500bhp.
See your on the audi site now. You can ask or search on there. Guy on there called badger5 has a 600bhp(approx i believe) 1.8 20v allbeit in an ibiza who runs his own company which builds big turbo 1.8T's. Sure he will add his 2p worth.
We dont tend to guess about things and almost everything that can be done has been done and tested thoroughly. Intake temps have been logged with standard intercoolers and you would be suprised just how hot it gets. Front mount makes a huge difference.
Your right there are people with over 300lbs. Not many but there are. I would strongly recommend you dont go anywhere near 400lbs on standard rods. Most other parts your fine, pistons are cetainly good for a decet 500bhp.
See your on the audi site now. You can ask or search on there. Guy on there called badger5 has a 600bhp(approx i believe) 1.8 20v allbeit in an ibiza who runs his own company which builds big turbo 1.8T's. Sure he will add his 2p worth.
Niffty951 said:
I would probably still plug up the holes in the N75 valve you took the vacuum lines off because i would guess the valve is not closed all the time and so could be creating a leak which allows the turbo to draw un-metered air into the system when on boost and there is a vacuum. Probably paranoid as it'll be a small amount but I hate unfinished ends.
Interesting results though?? How does it feel now? Much improved?
As for the N249 it is not a miracle cure for lag but where the standard car (mine at least) lost boost when changing gears - even when well above 3000rpm - so that you had to wait a second for boost to build again in the next gear. Now if your attacking the box on full throttle it merges into one smooth acceleration with no drop off in acceleration as you change gear.
To bypass the n249 you need to add a T piece into the vacuum line which feeds the fuel pressure regulator and run a line directly into the DV valve (on top of the turbo inlet pipe above the N75 valve)
Then you block off the hose that you took off the DV valve with a bolt or similar and find the vacuum line that connects the black plastic vacuum tank on top of the engine (on the far right by the coils) and the control valve that sits on top of the engine above the coil packs (middle of engine) and block this off too. I chose to remove the T piece hose that this connects into and replace with a straight section to erase this pipe completely but another bung would service.
This would be a lot easier with pictures which I will try to add later but hopefully this might help?
Yeh I blocked off the valve so no air could escape.Interesting results though?? How does it feel now? Much improved?
As for the N249 it is not a miracle cure for lag but where the standard car (mine at least) lost boost when changing gears - even when well above 3000rpm - so that you had to wait a second for boost to build again in the next gear. Now if your attacking the box on full throttle it merges into one smooth acceleration with no drop off in acceleration as you change gear.
To bypass the n249 you need to add a T piece into the vacuum line which feeds the fuel pressure regulator and run a line directly into the DV valve (on top of the turbo inlet pipe above the N75 valve)
Then you block off the hose that you took off the DV valve with a bolt or similar and find the vacuum line that connects the black plastic vacuum tank on top of the engine (on the far right by the coils) and the control valve that sits on top of the engine above the coil packs (middle of engine) and block this off too. I chose to remove the T piece hose that this connects into and replace with a straight section to erase this pipe completely but another bung would service.
This would be a lot easier with pictures which I will try to add later but hopefully this might help?
Edited by Niffty951 on Friday 18th September 16:09
It does feel faster, you can deffinately feel the difference. My mates all think I've had it remapped. Haven't timed the 0-60 yet though n seen how much a difference it makes in that factor.
I don't usually get any lag between gears when I'm above 3000, normally get wheelspin changing to 2nd when I'm on the throttle hard.
I have to say this thread is more helpful than the audi forum I'm on, I never seem to get a reply on there n when I do it's been a few weeks n I've figured it out by then. Thanks people.
Edited by Alex_alfa33 on Wednesday 23 September 23:16
Edited by Alex_alfa33 on Wednesday 23 September 23:17
To Niffty951,
My 3rd con rod after a stage 1 Custom Code remap. 70k on the clock 2003 full service history and can assure you does not get abused.
http://i43.tinypic.com/izta4x.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/5be1wy.jpg
That was "ment" to be 275BHP n 265 lbs.
So what do you think about that?
My £309 remap cost me £1700, £2200 if I didnt supply my own con rod and piston, oh, and thats £1700 after getting the map taken back off and refunded.
The guy didnt even make it to the main road to test drive it! Hit it hard to pull away and POP! Rolled back in tickin like a wind up toy.
My 3rd con rod after a stage 1 Custom Code remap. 70k on the clock 2003 full service history and can assure you does not get abused.
http://i43.tinypic.com/izta4x.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/5be1wy.jpg
That was "ment" to be 275BHP n 265 lbs.
So what do you think about that?
My £309 remap cost me £1700, £2200 if I didnt supply my own con rod and piston, oh, and thats £1700 after getting the map taken back off and refunded.
The guy didnt even make it to the main road to test drive it! Hit it hard to pull away and POP! Rolled back in tickin like a wind up toy.
Edited by StevoS3 on Sunday 21st March 14:09
StevoS3 said:
just shows it can happen though, fair enough I may have been unlucky. But I am ABSOLUTELY!! DEFINATLY!! upgrading my con rods when I get the chance as they are cheaper than the OEM rods witch I found out straight after my head was built back up 
It can happen but thank god its pretty rare for a car running a phase 1 map to throw up any major issues such as yours did. Sure, coilpack, maf and dirty throttle body issues as well as the standard boost leaks but nothing that requires wallet denting new internals.What rods are you looking at getting?
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