A4 Tdi oil pump chain woes
Discussion
My mate has suggested we try ourselves, he is into cars and has almost same car i.e passat TDi. he has most tools and also says "I think you should buy the new sprocket regardless with the amount of dismantling involved. I would be inclined to change it with the cheaper original item than shelling out for the conversion (unlikely you'll ever need to change again). You're car is likely to do the same number of miles it's already covered before the problem is repeated (by which time you'll have sold it probably). If there is no measurable difference between the new and old sprocket then we'd leave the old one be and you could put the new one on ebay...., he also says I have a high output blow torch and pullers so I'd imagine we'd get the sprocket off no bother, main work will be removing parts from engine, gaining access, and following instructions re timing belt in workshop manual so as timing is not screwed up.."
Any commment TT, it seems to me that buying the sprocket, in case the teeth are worn is logical, but is the sprocket really that hard to get off? and, are we talking with glass half full???
if we did the work ourselves I would need to get a garage to do work and I dont have one, so alternatively I could end up letting my local indi tackle it in same way, he says he is up for it
PARTS
My mate reckoned that we would need "new timing belt, belt tensioner or pulley (what ever is the service part on your car), new water pump, new crank oil seal, new engine oil and sump plug seal, gaskets for water pump and the oil pump chain assembly, sump gasket, instant gasket and gasket sealer, oil filter, oil pump chain, sprocket, tensioner...might as well change coolant while in there...without the workshop manual hard to know if there are any additional items that'll definitely need changed, but would expect that to be it...", again TT you seem to have done this a few times, any comments?. I know you listed the three parts earlier i.e "IF your going for a new chain tensioner and lower gear the part numbers are Chain - 03G 115 230; Gear - 03G 103 333 E; and Tensioner - 03G 115 124 D.." But if we do the work, it will be over long weekend and will need to have all parts before we start, hence reason I am asking this question
PS - has any one got any tips on where to get other parts such as timming belt kit, or do you have part nos?
PS if this seems a bit of a Saga to read but i dont have cash to repair at Audi, and have to limit loss as much as posssible hence me looking at all options.
Any commment TT, it seems to me that buying the sprocket, in case the teeth are worn is logical, but is the sprocket really that hard to get off? and, are we talking with glass half full???
if we did the work ourselves I would need to get a garage to do work and I dont have one, so alternatively I could end up letting my local indi tackle it in same way, he says he is up for it
PARTS
My mate reckoned that we would need "new timing belt, belt tensioner or pulley (what ever is the service part on your car), new water pump, new crank oil seal, new engine oil and sump plug seal, gaskets for water pump and the oil pump chain assembly, sump gasket, instant gasket and gasket sealer, oil filter, oil pump chain, sprocket, tensioner...might as well change coolant while in there...without the workshop manual hard to know if there are any additional items that'll definitely need changed, but would expect that to be it...", again TT you seem to have done this a few times, any comments?. I know you listed the three parts earlier i.e "IF your going for a new chain tensioner and lower gear the part numbers are Chain - 03G 115 230; Gear - 03G 103 333 E; and Tensioner - 03G 115 124 D.." But if we do the work, it will be over long weekend and will need to have all parts before we start, hence reason I am asking this question
PS - has any one got any tips on where to get other parts such as timming belt kit, or do you have part nos?
PS if this seems a bit of a Saga to read but i dont have cash to repair at Audi, and have to limit loss as much as posssible hence me looking at all options.
Maybe I havnt been clear.
!!You cant get the old crankshaft sproket!! Its no longer available from Audi.
Even if he can remove it, and its sounds like he's clued up, so he might be able to, heat is the key.
Thats why the options are,
(A) The cheap repair, new chain, tension and lower sproket, the small one that drives the oil pump (you have the part numbers) , A perfectly good repair if the crank sproket isnt worn, thats the point you can only go down that road if the sproket ok, because you cant get a replacement sprocket.
or
(B) The conversion.
Or if your really unlucky and cant get the sproket off.
(C) Short block (or crankshaft actually), we use a block because with labour charges its cheaper, if your doing the work and there's no labour to think about, then change the crank.
Tools and stuff.
You need an engine brace that goes between the tops of the wings to hold the engine up while you have the subframe down to get the sump off.
You need the locking pins and crank holding tool to do the cambelt.
Ball ended 5mm or 6mm allen key for the two sump bolts hidden in the bell housing.
You need somthing to lock the flywheel with while you undo the masivly thight crankshaft bolt. A really fat screw driver and a breaker bar and a scafold pole should do it.
(To get the pulley off if you decide to convert)
Gas touch and various pullers, maybe an air chisle, fire extinguisher and some one to drive you to A & E for when the red hot sproket shaters and the metal pieces go in your face. (this is highly unlikely but I've seen it happen with my own eyes)
Cambelt kit and water pump available from any motorfactors or your Audi dealer. I used Euro car parts if not using genuin bits.
!!You cant get the old crankshaft sproket!! Its no longer available from Audi.
Even if he can remove it, and its sounds like he's clued up, so he might be able to, heat is the key.
Thats why the options are,
(A) The cheap repair, new chain, tension and lower sproket, the small one that drives the oil pump (you have the part numbers) , A perfectly good repair if the crank sproket isnt worn, thats the point you can only go down that road if the sproket ok, because you cant get a replacement sprocket.
or
(B) The conversion.
Or if your really unlucky and cant get the sproket off.
(C) Short block (or crankshaft actually), we use a block because with labour charges its cheaper, if your doing the work and there's no labour to think about, then change the crank.
Tools and stuff.
You need an engine brace that goes between the tops of the wings to hold the engine up while you have the subframe down to get the sump off.
You need the locking pins and crank holding tool to do the cambelt.
Ball ended 5mm or 6mm allen key for the two sump bolts hidden in the bell housing.
You need somthing to lock the flywheel with while you undo the masivly thight crankshaft bolt. A really fat screw driver and a breaker bar and a scafold pole should do it.
(To get the pulley off if you decide to convert)
Gas touch and various pullers, maybe an air chisle, fire extinguisher and some one to drive you to A & E for when the red hot sproket shaters and the metal pieces go in your face. (this is highly unlikely but I've seen it happen with my own eyes)
Cambelt kit and water pump available from any motorfactors or your Audi dealer. I used Euro car parts if not using genuin bits.
Thanks TT, sorry, I think the important bit I missed what that "You cant get the old crankshaft sproket anymore".
And what a Bummer.
Can only hope it is not worn!!!!!.
It will be a few weeks before I deicide how I am going to take this further. I am still waiting for news on my goodwill application from Audi!!!!.
My mate does seem to know cars but I may just have to take it to my indy guy unless I can find a decent garage to do work in.
He also seems to have most of the bits and also the Heat etc. But unless i am converting, there may not be any need for this.
And what a Bummer.
Can only hope it is not worn!!!!!.
It will be a few weeks before I deicide how I am going to take this further. I am still waiting for news on my goodwill application from Audi!!!!.
My mate does seem to know cars but I may just have to take it to my indy guy unless I can find a decent garage to do work in.
He also seems to have most of the bits and also the Heat etc. But unless i am converting, there may not be any need for this.
I'm definitely thinking of just buying a new chain, car has done 47k so hopefully everything will be in order. I'm going to try and tackle the dealer but there apparently isn't anything official regards this issue and from the searching I've done, is only cropping up in minor cases so the dealer/Audi are likely to get away with it.
Still not sure whether to attempt this chain swap myself. TT: Would you recommend the dealer does it? How long just for the straight swapover?
Still not sure whether to attempt this chain swap myself. TT: Would you recommend the dealer does it? How long just for the straight swapover?
As suspected, Audi UK reduced goodwill. I will park this for just now.
Now looking to see if i can get parts, i sent off 7 email requests to part companies yesterday, one was a amin dealer as I suspect indy part companies may not have them.
The conversion parts FYI are about 780 plus vat from Audi.
So to change the system you need
HOUSING A03G 103 295 L - this is £700!
SEAL A038 103 085 E
BOLT AN 909 775 02
BOLT AN 911 213 01
GEAR A03G 105 212 D
GEAR A03G 103 105 C
Would like to think that i can just swap chain and gear etc. And am loooking to source these bits in the above requests.
Incidentally I spoke to an Indy Audi garage yesterday, they quoted £1500 plus vat, this was a bit cheaper than Audi, and they would include the trimming belt and water pump as well. So may even go down this route. I will first see if I can get the parts. The guy said he has done a number of conversions and knows the crank sprocket is hardest part of the job, but has a system to get off. he was not so positive about changing like for like but I am still keen to go this way, especially if my mate helps me do it ourselves.
will keep you posted.
Now looking to see if i can get parts, i sent off 7 email requests to part companies yesterday, one was a amin dealer as I suspect indy part companies may not have them.
The conversion parts FYI are about 780 plus vat from Audi.
So to change the system you need
HOUSING A03G 103 295 L - this is £700!
SEAL A038 103 085 E
BOLT AN 909 775 02
BOLT AN 911 213 01
GEAR A03G 105 212 D
GEAR A03G 103 105 C
Would like to think that i can just swap chain and gear etc. And am loooking to source these bits in the above requests.
Incidentally I spoke to an Indy Audi garage yesterday, they quoted £1500 plus vat, this was a bit cheaper than Audi, and they would include the trimming belt and water pump as well. So may even go down this route. I will first see if I can get the parts. The guy said he has done a number of conversions and knows the crank sprocket is hardest part of the job, but has a system to get off. he was not so positive about changing like for like but I am still keen to go this way, especially if my mate helps me do it ourselves.
will keep you posted.
Hi TT, still not decided what to do yet LOL, although I think will replace the chain. Funny enough when i phoned Audi to get parts (which they have) I had a discussion with parts man and he admitted it is an engine problem with this BLB engine. Funny how Audi UK said in my goodwill application that there is "no known problem".
I was researching the US TDi site and refered back to this thread in it for potential claim.
Someone sent you a tip about the puller for sprocket, but i am sure you probably know this.
[i]I read your thread. http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a... %20oil%20pump%20chain%20woes&mid=0
Tame Technician mentioned there that he has a high percentage of breaking the crankshaft pulley. He might be using the VW puller T40001. But a better puller is out there - T10392, and with a little modification, will less likely shatter the pulley. You might want to mention this to him and this link.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...ft_module2....
Which shows a picture of the tool about midway down the page. [/i]
The thread it came from was http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2779992...
I was researching the US TDi site and refered back to this thread in it for potential claim.
Someone sent you a tip about the puller for sprocket, but i am sure you probably know this.
[i]I read your thread. http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a... %20oil%20pump%20chain%20woes&mid=0
Tame Technician mentioned there that he has a high percentage of breaking the crankshaft pulley. He might be using the VW puller T40001. But a better puller is out there - T10392, and with a little modification, will less likely shatter the pulley. You might want to mention this to him and this link.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...ft_module2....
Which shows a picture of the tool about midway down the page. [/i]
The thread it came from was http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2779992...
Interesting this one.
As far as I know, all the 2.0TDI's before the update to gear drive, have the same chain tensioner layout. But so far we have only seen failures on the A4, never the A3, perhaps they are different, a parts person may have a better idea than me on this.
BLB/BNA/BRE/BRF/BVG are all listed on the sticker on the new engine blocks, so presumably they are all the same.
Sorry dont know for sure.
As far as I know, all the 2.0TDI's before the update to gear drive, have the same chain tensioner layout. But so far we have only seen failures on the A4, never the A3, perhaps they are different, a parts person may have a better idea than me on this.
BLB/BNA/BRE/BRF/BVG are all listed on the sticker on the new engine blocks, so presumably they are all the same.
Sorry dont know for sure.
Edited by Tame Technician on Thursday 10th December 23:39
Tame Technician said:
Interesting this one.
As far as I know, all the 2.0TDI's before the update to gear drive, have the same chain tensioner layout. But so far we have only seen failures on the A4, never the A3, perhaps they are different, a parts person may have a better idea than me on this.
BLB/BNA/BRE/BRF/BVG are all listed on the sticker on the new engine blocks, so presumably they are all the same.
Sorry dont know for sure.
When was the update to gear drive started?As far as I know, all the 2.0TDI's before the update to gear drive, have the same chain tensioner layout. But so far we have only seen failures on the A4, never the A3, perhaps they are different, a parts person may have a better idea than me on this.
BLB/BNA/BRE/BRF/BVG are all listed on the sticker on the new engine blocks, so presumably they are all the same.
Sorry dont know for sure.
Edited by Tame Technician on Thursday 10th December 23:39
Doovde said:
Cheers for the reply TT,
My car is actually a Golf 2.0 GT TDI (55 plate), and I just presumed that's it's the same 2.0 TDI(140) power plant in the A3 as the A4\A6 2.0 TDI (140's).
Is the BKD engine only in the A3\Golf's and not in the A4 and above?
Cheers
BKD is only in the transversly mounted cars. A3 for us but probably a load of other VW and skoda stuff too. My car is actually a Golf 2.0 GT TDI (55 plate), and I just presumed that's it's the same 2.0 TDI(140) power plant in the A3 as the A4\A6 2.0 TDI (140's).
Is the BKD engine only in the A3\Golf's and not in the A4 and above?
Cheers
Although we think the block etc are the same, the manifolds and some of the engine managent controls are different so it gets a different number.
Its odd that the failure are always A4/A6 and we have never seen it on an A3 with seemingly the same engine internals.
Edited by Tame Technician on Wednesday 23 December 15:23
Tame Technician said:
Badmutha said:
When was the update to gear drive started?
Trying to find out, The master tech and I though it was 2007 model year (cars built after sept 2006) but the parts info show it sooner than that.
Trying to get a definitive anser for you. I'll be back.
Tame Technician said:
Build dates after 31/08/2005 Both A4 and A6 are the new gear setup.
I cant tell if that includes the last few 2005 model year cars or not.
(to be safe all 6 chassis cars, 2006 model year, are gear driven)
WAUZZZ8E?6A??????
WAUZZZ4F?6A??????
For hose of you who are new to this sie and have just experienced oil chain woes, there is another site where someone is setting up a campaign with Audi and the likes of watchdog.I cant tell if that includes the last few 2005 model year cars or not.
(to be safe all 6 chassis cars, 2006 model year, are gear driven)
WAUZZZ8E?6A??????
WAUZZZ4F?6A??????
If you have already sorted out your problems, then feel free toadd your details, the more the better.
Check out the following link
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81997-...
I saw a broken link to my site, here is the correct link:
part1
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/b5/balan...
part2
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/b5/balan...
It's shown on a 2005 b5.5 VW Passat with BHW 2.0L TDI engine. If you click around you can also find a background FAQ on the oil chain problem. If you search youtube you can find videos of cars with noisy chains. Keep in mind that the chain just makes more noise vs. the gears so you have to take that into account when listening to before and after videos.
part1
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/b5/balan...
part2
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/b5/balan...
It's shown on a 2005 b5.5 VW Passat with BHW 2.0L TDI engine. If you click around you can also find a background FAQ on the oil chain problem. If you search youtube you can find videos of cars with noisy chains. Keep in mind that the chain just makes more noise vs. the gears so you have to take that into account when listening to before and after videos.
Hi TT and all.
Just to let you now I have been working on the car on sun and today. My friend knows about cars so he lead the work and we decided to change the chain as well as the timing belt. Fairly big job, it took 4 to 6 hours to get the front end off, ( there lots of things in the way to even gert this off so you need to be patient and strip things one by one) I am glad my pal was this good!!! I would have no chance.
For any one thinking about the work this is quick summary.
We had to take the sub frame off to get access to the sum, this meant an engine lift. Trouble was the one we hired was broken on Sun, it kept dropping, we had to give upon Sun. It took 2 hrs this morning to get the right one, we lifted engine and eventually exposed and striped timing belt and changed the water pump, this allowed us to get the sump of, Note there is 2 bolts at back of engine that took a long time to get off, you need special allen 5mm key with ball end to remove, but it has to be long,( we wanted an hour buying this). We got off exposing the chain. yes the tensioner was broken, just like previous TT's pictures seen, plastic bit broken off and located in the drained sump oil. The chain was slack and could be removed off the the two cogs, but we could not get the new chain over these cogs, so this shows the stretch of old, hence the rattle. I guess this could break causing serious damage. The bottom cog was worn but we had a new one, the top cog ( the difficult one to remove was fine).
I have photos, but not sure how to add on site.
The problem we then had was that the 4 bolts holding the cog in place were utter rubbish, we split the head with wrench of each one, really soft metal. I called Audi and they had 2 bolts in stock!!!. 35 p each!!, ordered 8 and will try to complete next week. We abandened the work, bolted up engine so i can de-hire the £38 engine lift per day.
And will try to finish next week. Will have to grind off the 4 bolts, bugger, may have to tap them!. But this cog has to go , it's worn
After thatI gues the work next week will be, sump back on, then complete timing belt, then put everything back together incl wishbones, sub frame etc. The front end and trays and wheel arch inner linings. Lights, radiator and coolant unit then bumper, re connect all cables and tubes. I wonder if we will get this done in a day!!! Lets hope we have not lost bits.
Note you need new engine coolant &, engine oil say £65, also the air conditioning unit needs re-charged with gas, I am told about £50. Also power steering fluid, this is about £18. Plus timing belt kit the various tools bought. I guess about £500. incl engine lift hire
You also need patience, and time. And a pal that was brilliant,
Just to let you now I have been working on the car on sun and today. My friend knows about cars so he lead the work and we decided to change the chain as well as the timing belt. Fairly big job, it took 4 to 6 hours to get the front end off, ( there lots of things in the way to even gert this off so you need to be patient and strip things one by one) I am glad my pal was this good!!! I would have no chance.
For any one thinking about the work this is quick summary.
We had to take the sub frame off to get access to the sum, this meant an engine lift. Trouble was the one we hired was broken on Sun, it kept dropping, we had to give upon Sun. It took 2 hrs this morning to get the right one, we lifted engine and eventually exposed and striped timing belt and changed the water pump, this allowed us to get the sump of, Note there is 2 bolts at back of engine that took a long time to get off, you need special allen 5mm key with ball end to remove, but it has to be long,( we wanted an hour buying this). We got off exposing the chain. yes the tensioner was broken, just like previous TT's pictures seen, plastic bit broken off and located in the drained sump oil. The chain was slack and could be removed off the the two cogs, but we could not get the new chain over these cogs, so this shows the stretch of old, hence the rattle. I guess this could break causing serious damage. The bottom cog was worn but we had a new one, the top cog ( the difficult one to remove was fine).
I have photos, but not sure how to add on site.
The problem we then had was that the 4 bolts holding the cog in place were utter rubbish, we split the head with wrench of each one, really soft metal. I called Audi and they had 2 bolts in stock!!!. 35 p each!!, ordered 8 and will try to complete next week. We abandened the work, bolted up engine so i can de-hire the £38 engine lift per day.
And will try to finish next week. Will have to grind off the 4 bolts, bugger, may have to tap them!. But this cog has to go , it's worn
After thatI gues the work next week will be, sump back on, then complete timing belt, then put everything back together incl wishbones, sub frame etc. The front end and trays and wheel arch inner linings. Lights, radiator and coolant unit then bumper, re connect all cables and tubes. I wonder if we will get this done in a day!!! Lets hope we have not lost bits.
Note you need new engine coolant &, engine oil say £65, also the air conditioning unit needs re-charged with gas, I am told about £50. Also power steering fluid, this is about £18. Plus timing belt kit the various tools bought. I guess about £500. incl engine lift hire
You also need patience, and time. And a pal that was brilliant,
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