A4 Tdi oil pump chain woes
Discussion
Tame Technician said:
IF the chain didn't break yet and the upper gear isnt worn, you CAN just replace the chain and the tensioner and the oil pump drive gear(the one that bolts too the oil pump). Audi still sell them, I did one last week, and the week before, its a perfectly acceptable repair. !!HOWEVER!! if the upper gear on the end of the crankshaft has had its teeth worn or damaged by running with what will now be a misshaped chain, then its a really bad idea, unless your driving it straight to an auction.
Its a 50p plastic chain guide that breaks on the chain tensioner, causing the chain to rub on the metal plunger which very quickly destroys the chain. Not everyone hears the noise, chain breaks destroys all the gears and no oil pressure destroys the turbo, if not all the engine as well. Count yourself lucky you heard it.
BE WARNED, we have had a number of these where the gear would not come off the end of the crank, or the gear has broken up and made it impossible to remove from the crank, even had a technician injured by the exploding tool. These cars have had to have engines. Now I try one time to get if off with the Special audi puller, if it doesnt happen first time, I say it needs an engine. If you indy man hasn't done one before he wont like it much.
Found this guide with google. Advise you show it to your indy mechanic before he starts.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3419/BHW_Balance_Shaf...
That lumpy tick over is a bit of a 2.0TDI PD engine trait, nothing to do with the balancer shaft. You can improve it by having the injectors cleaned and new injector seals fitted at the same time, But most of the 140bhp A4's did it from new, so it will never go away completely.
HelloIts a 50p plastic chain guide that breaks on the chain tensioner, causing the chain to rub on the metal plunger which very quickly destroys the chain. Not everyone hears the noise, chain breaks destroys all the gears and no oil pressure destroys the turbo, if not all the engine as well. Count yourself lucky you heard it.
BE WARNED, we have had a number of these where the gear would not come off the end of the crank, or the gear has broken up and made it impossible to remove from the crank, even had a technician injured by the exploding tool. These cars have had to have engines. Now I try one time to get if off with the Special audi puller, if it doesnt happen first time, I say it needs an engine. If you indy man hasn't done one before he wont like it much.
Found this guide with google. Advise you show it to your indy mechanic before he starts.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3419/BHW_Balance_Shaf...
That lumpy tick over is a bit of a 2.0TDI PD engine trait, nothing to do with the balancer shaft. You can improve it by having the injectors cleaned and new injector seals fitted at the same time, But most of the 140bhp A4's did it from new, so it will never go away completely.
Edited by Tame Technician on Thursday 8th October 18:49
My car - Audi A4 2.0tdi,2005- had the same problem, but when it was open we did not see any problem with the tensioner.the chain wasn't broken but it was loose.Well, the tecnician did replace all for new pieces (chain,tensioner and the small crive gear). But When he started the engine the noise was still there...And when we turn on the AC the noise stops. Can you give same advice please.Do you think that the problem is inside the oil pump?Thanks!
The is and was nothing wrong with your engine/oil pump.
You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
Edited by Tame Technician on Sunday 4th September 23:32
Tame Technician said:
The is and was nothing wrong with your engine/oil pump.
You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
Thank you for tour help!Ah,the chain was loose but the plastic tensioner was ok.Probably I have to choose other tech...He said that he did take off the belt and the noise was still there.But he concluded that if there is noise isn't from AC...So he started to point his finguer to the oil pump...You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
Edited by Rcmf on Sunday 4th September 23:47
Edited by Rcmf on Sunday 4th September 23:57
Edited by Rcmf on Sunday 4th September 23:59
Tame Technician said:
The is and was nothing wrong with your engine/oil pump.
You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
Hi again!You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
Edited by Tame Technician on Sunday 4th September 23:32
I've new information about my problem. The tech did turn of all the belts and the noise was still there.Any ideias?
Thanks!!!
Hi anybody out there owning a 2.0 TDi Audi / Volkswagen dont worry if you have any oil pump drive problems as PowerMax Engineering from Northern Ireland have all the parts in stock to put your car back in good working condition.
We carry kits to put your engine back together without the expense of changing to the new gear kit.
First kit - Oil pump drive chain
- Oil pump sprocket
- Chain tensioner
Second kit - Oil pump drive chain
- Oil pump sprocket
- Chain tensioner
- Crankshaft sprocket ( Manufactured by ourselves )
Contact us for full details and prices -
- Email - enquiries@powermaxengineering.com
- Tel - 028 867 62073
We carry kits to put your engine back together without the expense of changing to the new gear kit.
First kit - Oil pump drive chain
- Oil pump sprocket
- Chain tensioner
Second kit - Oil pump drive chain
- Oil pump sprocket
- Chain tensioner
- Crankshaft sprocket ( Manufactured by ourselves )
Contact us for full details and prices -
- Email - enquiries@powermaxengineering.com
- Tel - 028 867 62073
Hi
I have just bought (privatly) a Dec 05 (55 plate) A4 Avant 2.0 tdi S-Line, that has a rattling noise for the engine area, along with a bit of vibration felt through the gear knob and slghtly through the s/wheel.
I did not know any thing about the oil pump drive chain issues with the 2.0 as I have owned two A4 1.9s in the past and assumed that the newer ones would be as good if not better ! Doh.
Now before I stick my head in the gas oven as I have overstretched myself to get the bloody thing is it the oil pump gear chain ?
I have read through this thred and found a lot of great info esp from 'TT' who has said that :- Build dates after 31/08/2005 Both A4 and A6 are the new gear setup. I can't tell if that includes the last few 2005 model year cars or not.
To be safe all 6 chassis cars, 2006 model year, are gear driven, ie WAUZZZ8E?6A?????? - WAUZZZ4F?6A??????
If this is correct, my engine BLB 127626 so I can assume is chain driven, but the chasis number is WAUZZZ8E46A 081??? that means that it is gear driven ?
Is this correct ? if so what noise problem ?
Regards Ian, all help including the samaritans greatfully received
I have just bought (privatly) a Dec 05 (55 plate) A4 Avant 2.0 tdi S-Line, that has a rattling noise for the engine area, along with a bit of vibration felt through the gear knob and slghtly through the s/wheel.
I did not know any thing about the oil pump drive chain issues with the 2.0 as I have owned two A4 1.9s in the past and assumed that the newer ones would be as good if not better ! Doh.
Now before I stick my head in the gas oven as I have overstretched myself to get the bloody thing is it the oil pump gear chain ?
I have read through this thred and found a lot of great info esp from 'TT' who has said that :- Build dates after 31/08/2005 Both A4 and A6 are the new gear setup. I can't tell if that includes the last few 2005 model year cars or not.
To be safe all 6 chassis cars, 2006 model year, are gear driven, ie WAUZZZ8E?6A?????? - WAUZZZ4F?6A??????
If this is correct, my engine BLB 127626 so I can assume is chain driven, but the chasis number is WAUZZZ8E46A 081??? that means that it is gear driven ?
Is this correct ? if so what noise problem ?
Regards Ian, all help including the samaritans greatfully received
Rcmf said:
Tame Technician said:
The is and was nothing wrong with your engine/oil pump.
You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
Hi again!You need and air con compressor.
Sorry you spent time and money on the other work.
To be 100% sure take the Aux drive belt off and run the engine, no noise with belt off = noise is cause by aux drive component not the engine its self.
Your tech really should have checked this before pulling the engine apart.
ETA, if the plastic bit was broken off the tensioner and the chain loose, its was a blessing that he changed it as it would have broken the chain any minute, just bad luck the A/C compressor gone also.
Edited by Tame Technician on Sunday 4th September 23:32
I've new information about my problem. The tech did turn of all the belts and the noise was still there.Any ideias?
Thanks!!!
Hi, I have recently purchased an 05 Audi A4 2.0 TDI S-Line and its done 102,000 miles and had the timing belt replaced at 80,000, and last night I had the following problems...
I was pulling away from a junction and found I had no pull in 3rd gear at 20mph for a few seconds then it kicked in. Then about 1/2 a mile up the road I had the oil pressure light. I pulled over and topped up the oil and started the car again, the pressure warning remained on and then smoke started bellowing out of the exhaust (grey smoke, stunk of burning oil). I pulled over and couldn't see anything wrong, and when I started the engine again there was no smoke, so I went to drive the remaining 2 miles home and as soon as i got up to speed the smoke started pouring out again, so I nursed the car home, and when I went to park it up I touch the brakes to find I couldn't squeeze it, there was no give in the pedal.
Any ideas??
I was pulling away from a junction and found I had no pull in 3rd gear at 20mph for a few seconds then it kicked in. Then about 1/2 a mile up the road I had the oil pressure light. I pulled over and topped up the oil and started the car again, the pressure warning remained on and then smoke started bellowing out of the exhaust (grey smoke, stunk of burning oil). I pulled over and couldn't see anything wrong, and when I started the engine again there was no smoke, so I went to drive the remaining 2 miles home and as soon as i got up to speed the smoke started pouring out again, so I nursed the car home, and when I went to park it up I touch the brakes to find I couldn't squeeze it, there was no give in the pedal.
Any ideas??
Just from that describtion sounds like you lost oil pressure, kept driving and then damaged your turbo, and possibly the rest of the engine, depending on how long and how low the oil pressure was.
But I would have expected some funny noises etc.
Brake pedal not going down suggest vac pump failed, unralated, was the engine off at this stage, you will only get one good brake application once the engine is off.
But I would have expected some funny noises etc.
Brake pedal not going down suggest vac pump failed, unralated, was the engine off at this stage, you will only get one good brake application once the engine is off.
Anthoy1and said:
No the engine was on when I lost the brakes, do you think the vacuum could have filled with oil if the turbo was spilling oil out?
No I dont think that possible.The vacuum pump is a tandem pump, pumps fuel and vacuum from the same cam drive. If the tandem pump failed in a big way, it might cause a loss of vacuum and a loss of engine power, but i cant see how it could put the oil light on and make smoke. Unless it pumped fuel straight into the sump and diluted the oil masivly, all very unlikely.
You need to have it looked at by someone that knows what there doing. I can make educated guess from your symptom / description, but without the car infront of me its very difficult to be sure of anything.
Tame Technician said:
Regarding the plastic tensioner and preventative measures, there isnt really anything you can do.
VAG replaced the entire assemblky with a chainless setup on later cars, (see the Passat link above somewhere). Its 'technically' posible to convert the older ones, but not really a cost effective, far to exspensive to do when there is absolutly nothing wrong with the chain etc.
You could put a new tensioner on if your really worried, the ones we have done have failed between 70 and 120k. But the new bit is the same as the old bit just newer, they didnt modify the tension specifically, rather updated the entire assembly eliminating the chain and tension.
I think the most important things is, not to worry to much I dont know how many 2.0TDI's there are in the world, but if we see a few fail every other month, even if we do one a week, thats still a very small percentage.
Just be aware if it ever starts making a chain like noise from the front, might be better to have it recoved than drive it home.
I just bought a 2005 A4 2.0 TDI SLINE last week from a private dealer and have just been told about this issue. The car has done 97,000 miles and had a cambelt and water pump change at 87k.VAG replaced the entire assemblky with a chainless setup on later cars, (see the Passat link above somewhere). Its 'technically' posible to convert the older ones, but not really a cost effective, far to exspensive to do when there is absolutly nothing wrong with the chain etc.
You could put a new tensioner on if your really worried, the ones we have done have failed between 70 and 120k. But the new bit is the same as the old bit just newer, they didnt modify the tension specifically, rather updated the entire assembly eliminating the chain and tension.
I think the most important things is, not to worry to much I dont know how many 2.0TDI's there are in the world, but if we see a few fail every other month, even if we do one a week, thats still a very small percentage.
Just be aware if it ever starts making a chain like noise from the front, might be better to have it recoved than drive it home.
I am now very concerned that something terrible is going to happen to the engine and all that hard earned cash I invested will be wasted (this is my first Audi and I can't tell you how pleased I was with the car up until I read all this stuff, it was a real step-up for me - or so i thought!).
Is it worth getting my local garage to put on a new tensioner to try and avoid this happening? (as you mention above)
Or is it worth just trying to get rid of the car as soon as possible while it's worth money?
I can't seem to find any information on the web on percentage of this model has problems. Is it inevitable that this is going to happen any second due to the mileage on mine? - You mention between 70 and 120k.
I've been advised by a trusted mechanic friend to get rid of the car as soon as possible - by taking it back to the dealer and hoping he won't shaft me too much on buying it back off me due to me having only had the car for a week. I spent the best part of 7k on the car, if I lose 500 on it now, I'm thinking it may cost me less in the long run.
Knocked sick by this - I really should have done my homework more before purchasing the 2.0, I was going to go for the 1.9 which i believe is a good engine.
Any thoughts on this much appreciated.
Edited by micsten on Tuesday 7th February 22:32
At that age and mileage its probably been done already and converted to the new set up.
You could ring Audi UK customer services (should be able to find the number with google) and see if they can look through the vehicles history for you. Will likely need your vin number.
Every car out there has a number or known issues, Ford, Vauxhall, BMW and Audi, its all the same. You cant worry about what MIGHT happen. Just be aware, so you know the differance between the low oil level warning and the low pressure warning for example.
You could ring Audi UK customer services (should be able to find the number with google) and see if they can look through the vehicles history for you. Will likely need your vin number.
Every car out there has a number or known issues, Ford, Vauxhall, BMW and Audi, its all the same. You cant worry about what MIGHT happen. Just be aware, so you know the differance between the low oil level warning and the low pressure warning for example.
Thanks for the quick response.
I called UK customer services and got them to check history. No record of the modification being done. Also have a lot of garage receipts that came with the car. Again, no record there of the work being carried out.
So I guess I am going to have to assume that it hasn't been done and cross my fingers that this doesn't happen. And keep an eye on the low pressure warning and listen for any odd noises.
Thanks
I called UK customer services and got them to check history. No record of the modification being done. Also have a lot of garage receipts that came with the car. Again, no record there of the work being carried out.
So I guess I am going to have to assume that it hasn't been done and cross my fingers that this doesn't happen. And keep an eye on the low pressure warning and listen for any odd noises.
Thanks
hi guys
i was wondering if you might be able to help me out.
Car is a 2005 A4 2.0 TDI which has done 110 k and has been maintained by audi since new (other than one service by a approved audi specialist). It was serviced aprox 2k ago by audi who noted that the alternator pulley was speaking (which has since stopped) and that there were faults logged with glowplugs 2, 3 and 4 (although i’ve never had any issues with car starting when cold). Neither repair was done.
I have had a rattle from the front end of my 2005 2.0 tdi for quite some time and its gradually got worse. originally my mechanic replaced one of the pulleys on the front of the car which did not fix it. we then established that it was the a/c pump which was rattling when the ac unit was not on. i did not fix this for aprox a year during which time the engine rattle got much worse. i have since had it replaced and noticed that the rattle has not stopped.
the other day whilst my wife was driving the car the low oil pressure light came on. she carried on driving the car (stupidly) and the light reset when the car was switched off. i started it up the other day and all seemed fine (other than the rattle) and I gave some gas and the oil pressure light came on again. switched it off immediately. started it up about 4 days later and no warning light. left it running for a few minutes but did not drive it or give it gas and still no oil pressure light.
The rattle is not like the broken chain rattle (vids on you tubes or forums etc) but makes the engine sounds more like a white van so its just a lot more noisy.
do i have the symptoms of the balance shaft issues and could the rattle be the issues with the chain?
i was wondering if you might be able to help me out.
Car is a 2005 A4 2.0 TDI which has done 110 k and has been maintained by audi since new (other than one service by a approved audi specialist). It was serviced aprox 2k ago by audi who noted that the alternator pulley was speaking (which has since stopped) and that there were faults logged with glowplugs 2, 3 and 4 (although i’ve never had any issues with car starting when cold). Neither repair was done.
I have had a rattle from the front end of my 2005 2.0 tdi for quite some time and its gradually got worse. originally my mechanic replaced one of the pulleys on the front of the car which did not fix it. we then established that it was the a/c pump which was rattling when the ac unit was not on. i did not fix this for aprox a year during which time the engine rattle got much worse. i have since had it replaced and noticed that the rattle has not stopped.
the other day whilst my wife was driving the car the low oil pressure light came on. she carried on driving the car (stupidly) and the light reset when the car was switched off. i started it up the other day and all seemed fine (other than the rattle) and I gave some gas and the oil pressure light came on again. switched it off immediately. started it up about 4 days later and no warning light. left it running for a few minutes but did not drive it or give it gas and still no oil pressure light.
The rattle is not like the broken chain rattle (vids on you tubes or forums etc) but makes the engine sounds more like a white van so its just a lot more noisy.
do i have the symptoms of the balance shaft issues and could the rattle be the issues with the chain?
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