Strange top end rattle?

[TVR Beaver]

Here is a question... Is it only the newer cars that do it?.. say 1998 on?.. mine is 1999?....
There is some thought on a change of poiston supplier??.. could this be true?...
Or may be other parts.. rods for example??

From all thoes I've seen, they do tend to be 98 on??????

[dumbfunk]

My 98 Griff has the exact same rattle as your video and has done since I bought it 10 years and 50k miles ago. It's not terribly loud though and has never gotten any better or worse despite lots of different oils, new cam and replacement timing gear in that period.

I raised the point at a couple of services and Richard at Dulford told me that some do it and that I shouldn't worry as it wont break because of it. So far it looks like he's correct as usual.

[TVR Beaver]

Yes.. over 50% do it.. and they do it for ever with no detriment if would appear... but a few of us still want to know why... Small end / piston skirt / crank gaps are all suggestions... but why on some and not on others?...
Piston material / manufacturer could be one answer?.. thats why we were wondering if the cars that do it are from say 98 on?.. may be TVR changed piston supplier?.. and may be these pistons start to make the noise?....
Once you understand the problem you can start to fix it if you want... no point replacing with new parts thats going to do the same thing in 10K miles?...
.
I'm sure your right though.. its nothing to worry about... I know one car thats done it for 75K.. no issues...

[dumbfunk]

Good luck with your research! This is a fascinating thread. There have been times where that slight rattle has worried me so it's great to know that it is not uncommon.

[TVR Beaver]

We all drive modern stuff now... but I think you can get carried away making comparisons...
These engines are old and they make a lot of strange noises... You tend to forget but when I think back to my MK1 escort and Mini's... I'm sure they made a few odd noises also

[WokingWedger]

John, mines a 97

[TVR Beaver]

So.. any more thoughts on this?... May be someone has made progress with it?....

I'm about to look at the Dizzy and the top end... see if we can find anything there...
Slipping liner was suggested?.. what do they sound like... bit louder than this I would have thought?..
Piston slap tends to come up a lot?...

[Chimpafrolic]

Well I was always taught this type of noise is little ends.

Hey but what do I know?

[dumbfunk]

Beaver - it's not the dizzy I don't think. Mine is now in a box at the back of the garage and the noise is no different.

[TVR Beaver]

dumbfunk said:

Beaver - it's not the dizzy I don't think. Mine is now in a box at the back of the garage and the noise is no different.

Interesting... but they all sound passenger front... but wanted someone who had coil packs to confirm this.. so thanks for that!

So if we are talking small ends or piston slap... is it detrimental.. how long can it do it for before it causes damage (until the piston breaks in half I guess )

I can still see the honeing marks on my bores in mine.. if I got new pistons would I need to re-hone.. or will a quick lick up with wet and dry just to get any glaze off do?? (this way it can be done with the engine in or is that just being lazey )

Was asking around yesterday.. and Dulfords and I thing Raceing Green know 500's that have made this noise from new!!... and some start at 5K.. so is it worth it??

[chris52]

WokingWedger said:

John, mines a 97

Mine is also a 97 but does not make the noise. Does yours have the otter switch for the rad fans on the swirl pot or the radiator? Can't see it should make much difference but if it's a common factor and the ones with the fan switch on the rad make the noise and the ones with it on the swirl pot don't perhaps there could be link?
Chris

[WokingWedger]

chris52 said:

Mine is also a 97 but does not make the noise. Does yours have the otter switch for the rad fans on the swirl pot or the radiator? Can't see it should make much difference but if it's a common factor and the ones with the fan switch on the rad make the noise and the ones with it on the swirl pot don't perhaps there could be link?
Chris

I am not sure how this could make any differnce, unless you are suggesting they made other changes to the build standard at the same time?

My otter switch is at the bottom of the swirlpot and does make the noise.

[chris52]

I didn't think the location of the fan switch would make any difference but if the later design cars that had it on the radiator were the only ones that were making the noise it would at least given a link. But as yours is basically the same as mine then it may just be luck of the draw and as such any car from any year could do it.
Chris

[TVR Beaver]

Chris's car does run a bit cooler than mine. I can hit 90 deg when my fans come in. I know Chris's fans come on at 85 ish?

What does a loose liner sound like? Dom suggested this but I can't see it?

[WokingWedger]

How long would a loose liner run without a catastophic failure though.

I thought the world ended with a slipped liner !

I do confess that if (and I probably will) get Rob to replace my pistons I will also get top hat liners and an interal balance of the crank. (I couldnt face more engine work later)

[TVR Beaver]

May be liners can shuffle up and down for ages? But don't think its a liner noise. I'm sure that would be more of a tap?

Do you need top hats. Didn't they solve that issue by 97? Mind you, would address any porocity issues etc.

[WokingWedger]

TVR Beaver said:

Didn't they solve that issue by 97?

I didnt know they ever 'fixed it'.

I dont want to waste money !

Do you know what they did and when to prevent liner movement ?

[TVR Beaver]

WokingWedger said:

I didnt know they ever 'fixed it'.

I dont want to waste money !

Do you know what they did and when to prevent liner movement ?

I thought from some point they started pushing liners in to a small step on the bottom of thr bore to stop them droping? Not sure if this is correct on ours our from when? May be a question for Power before you start?

[ellesmereFNC]

Hi all
Just been revisiting this thread and wondering if there were any firm answers, I have the rattle at 1800-1200. Been told it could be any number of things from a slipped liner to cam wear, lifters or timing chain. I've listened all round the engine and can't pin it down but sounds like its from the top somewhere but that could be me. If it was a slipped liner would you see increased coolant usage and temp issues? It's not using any oil to speak of and pulls well enough not to let my mate in his SLK AMG 55 get away. I'm looking to sell the car but don't want to be passing on issues to any new owner but also don't want to spend £4k getting it stripped down and rebuilt if they all do it. The car is a 2001 450 chimaera with 34k on the clock and looking at some bills it had a cam change at 12k with a previous owner.

Cheers

Edited by ellesmereFNC on Sunday 6th May 06:30

[TVR Thunder]

My (97) 500 made the exact same noise in the video before I snapped the crank, and after a full re-build (new crank, cam followers etc)it still does. I'm not worrying about it, as it goes just fine!