Strange top end rattle?

[TVR Beaver]

spend said:

Eh?? do you mean the follower bores / follower cup (they also bleed oil up into the cup).

Follower bores it would appear??.... actualy does follow thru with a problem we've had at work using full synthetic oil... the damn stuff is just too slippery and I also put Slick 50 in a motor once only to see the oil pressure drop by half!!.. I suppose we are going the same way with synthetic?

Got to say I first noticed mine after running in the Stealth and changing to Silkolean Pro S 15/50 full synth....

This also ties in with a PM who had a Head Gasket go and had it changed.. the noise started from that point... could the garauge who did the work have put Fully Synthetic oil back in?...

May be the test to do is going backwards onto a mineral type oil and see if it goes.... Must say all the people who have changed the oil have tended to go for a 'better' spec??.

Edited by TVR Beaver on Thursday 14th July 13:09

[griff50tvr]

TVR Beaver said:

When I say adjusters.. I mean the hydraulic lifters.. push rods and holes in heads.. may be?.. but it does appear to come from both banks.. and I think towards to front of the engine?
But what ever it is has become more noticable over the past few thousand miles or so... only when hot.. and only on reducing rev's??
Was out with Chris52 yesterday for a blast.. his engine is at 75K and not a trace of this sound at all?

What does it sound like if the pre-load is not right or loose?.. or may be the lifters loose a bit of pressure as it comes back to tickover?.. but that said, why would it not do it at tickover?... all very strange....
..

I had an upsetting 'rattle/knocking' around tickover which was diagnosed as one or more hydraulic lifter(s) sticking. After reading about Wynns 'snake oil', I decided to try it and it worked for me. The knocking has subsided to an almost inaudible level. Don't ask me how it does it but I guess it's got something to do with the modern synthetic oil we use in what is basically a 50's engine and the additive delivers better lubrication or lubrication with staying power.

[macdeb]

Sorry, can't see a change in oil changing things, [didn't with mine] if it does however then great but remain doubtful and stand by to be corrected. Also, difficult to compare noises through words. Mine was 'rattle' on overrun running down from 1800-1200 revs.

Edited by macdeb on Thursday 14th July 22:08

[TVR Beaver]

griff50tvr said:

I had an upsetting 'rattle/knocking' around tickover which was diagnosed as one or more hydraulic lifter(s) sticking. After reading about Wynns 'snake oil', I decided to try it and it worked for me. The knocking has subsided to an almost inaudible level. Don't ask me how it does it but I guess it's got something to do with the modern synthetic oil we use in what is basically a 50's engine and the additive delivers better lubrication or lubrication with staying power.

Wow.. your the second person to mention 'Wynns Snake Oil' today!... I've never heard of it before (or is it just the Slick 50 type stuff?) so assume it's not actualy called snake oil....... must be worth a try then.... what did you actualy get?? was it the adjuster cleaner stuff?... Just wondering what hese products with suspended solids in them do to your filter however... after all, this is why your filter is there... to remove such items???

Edited by TVR Beaver on Friday 15th July 15:15

[TVR Beaver]

macdeb said:

Sorry, can't see a change in oil changing things, [didn't with mine] if it does however then great but remain doubtful and stand by to be corrected. Also, difficult to compare noises through words. Mine was 'rattle' on overrun running down from 1800-1200 revs.

Edited by macdeb on Thursday 14th July 22:08

Did you fix it in the end.. what did you do?.. or have you still got it?

[citizen smith]

TVR Beaver,
The problem may possbly down to the pre-loadbeing incorrect, this means that the variation in the push rod lengths affects the operation of the hydraulic tappets, causing the ticking sound on bleed down(engine going back down to idle).
I personally think the only solution is to fit adjustable push rods, to set the correct pre-load. But I may well be wrong!

[TVR Beaver]

Know someone who did that.. but it didn't appear to work?... but they didn't use solid lifters....?
.
It's also suggested that end float on big ends as well as causing oil pressure to drop, can also sound similar??...
.
Got to say that when you put your ear under the wing, you can may be hear it more than you can inside the engine bay??.....

[griff50tvr]

TVR Beaver said:

griff50tvr said:

I had an upsetting 'rattle/knocking' around tickover which was diagnosed as one or more hydraulic lifter(s) sticking. After reading about Wynns 'snake oil', I decided to try it and it worked for me. The knocking has subsided to an almost inaudible level. Don't ask me how it does it but I guess it's got something to do with the modern synthetic oil we use in what is basically a 50's engine and the additive delivers better lubrication or lubrication with staying power.

Wow.. your the second person to mention 'Wynns Snake Oil' today!... I've never heard of it before (or is it just the Slick 50 type stuff?) so assume it's not actualy called snake oil....... must be worth a try then.... what did you actualy get?? was it the adjuster cleaner stuff?... Just wondering what hese products with suspended solids in them do to your filter however... after all, this is why your filter is there... to remove such items???

Edited by TVR Beaver on Friday 15th July 15:15

You're right, it's not actually called 'snake oil' ! It's really Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment and I bought it at Halfords. I was really sceptical whether it would work but gambling only £8.99 (a bottle treats between 3-6 litres of oil), it seemed worth a try. But of course, if it causes major issues (which I have not experienced yet using it with Pro-R), the cost escalates with a full oil change etc!


BTW, completely O/T, I've finally got the centre caps back after painting and, with the new logos, they really look the dogs! Cheers .

[Chimpafrolic]

griff50tvr said:

You're right, it's not actually called 'snake oil' ! It's really Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment and I bought it at Halfords. I was really sceptical whether it would work but gambling only £8.99 (a bottle treats between 3-6 litres of oil), it seemed worth a try. But of course, if it causes major issues (which I have not experienced yet using it with Pro-R), the cost escalates with a full oil change etc!


BTW, completely O/T, I've finally got the centre caps back after painting and, with the new logos, they really look the dogs! Cheers .

Adding half a litre of ATF to your engine oil will have the same effect as the Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment.

Or.

Change the oil for a decent diesel engine specific oil, and run the car for 200 miles.

After 200 easy miles drop the diesel engine oil and go back to your normal brew.

Job done.

[TVR Beaver]

griff50tvr said:

You're right, it's not actually called 'snake oil' ! It's really Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment and I bought it at Halfords. I was really sceptical whether it would work but gambling only £8.99 (a bottle treats between 3-6 litres of oil), it seemed worth a try. But of course, if it causes major issues (which I have not experienced yet using it with Pro-R), the cost escalates with a full oil change etc!


BTW, completely O/T, I've finally got the centre caps back after painting and, with the new logos, they really look the dogs! Cheers .

Okay.. may have a look! But they have only done 1500 miles or so.. .why would they be blocked? (looking at this stiff it says it cleans them??)


Glad the trims are okay... are you at the Growl... would love to see them painted

Edited by TVR Beaver on Friday 15th July 21:26

[TVR Beaver]

Chimpafrolic said:

Adding half a litre of ATF to your engine oil will have the same effect as the Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment.

Or.

Change the oil for a decent diesel engine specific oil, and run the car for 200 miles.

After 200 easy miles drop the diesel engine oil and go back to your normal brew.

Job done.

Not sure I'm brave enough for that one...

[griff50tvr]

TVR Beaver said:

griff50tvr said:

You're right, it's not actually called 'snake oil' ! It's really Wynns Hydraulic Valve Lifter Treatment and I bought it at Halfords. I was really sceptical whether it would work but gambling only £8.99 (a bottle treats between 3-6 litres of oil), it seemed worth a try. But of course, if it causes major issues (which I have not experienced yet using it with Pro-R), the cost escalates with a full oil change etc!


BTW, completely O/T, I've finally got the centre caps back after painting and, with the new logos, they really look the dogs! Cheers .

Okay.. may have a look! But they have only done 1500 miles or so.. .why would they be blocked? (looking at this stiff it says it cleans them??)


Glad the trims are okay... are you at the Growl... would love to see them painted

Edited by TVR Beaver on Friday 15th July 21:26

The message I was given is that low mileage/irregular use is most likely the cause in my case (I lay up the car for 4 months every winter).


And yep, I'm planning to be at the Growl - Saturday if the weather's ok.

[TVR Beaver]

griff50tvr said:

The message I was given is that low mileage/irregular use is most likely the cause in my case (I lay up the car for 4 months every winter).


And yep, I'm planning to be at the Growl - Saturday if the weather's ok.

See ya there!... not long now!!!...

[Moycie]

TVR Beaver said:

See ya there!... not long now!!!...

TVR Beaver -
I think we were talking about this at the Growl on Fri afternoon? I had a similar noise?
The beers have pretty much killed my memory, especially with the curry and more beers afterwards
- what was the outcome, I think it was find out the current oil (on mine anyway) and replace with semi synth, like Millers 20W50?

[angry jock]

We were talking about it mate. We said to try and find out what you were running and if necessary change it to 15w 50. Opie do silkolene. I've got mobil one in mine. Other than that can't remember much else of the discussion owing to alcohol too!

[Moycie]

Great, thanks. I completely forgot the conversation until today...

I think it was post your "drop tray of beers in middle of car park". oops.

[TVR Beaver]

We did also talk... you could try the oil... but I already run 15w50 pro R and now it's doing it... I'm thinking of 20w50 semi synthetic...
but that said.. .I was to the cars on the rollers.. and a good 50% do it including FFG's etc....
I did call in at Power on the way down and they said some do and some don't.... I don't think it's anything to worry about... but would still like to get the the bottom of why it's come on!,,,

[Marty V8]

Marty V8 said:

Seems to be a common problem. My Griff 500 used to do it too - exactly the same symptoms as described by the OP. I couldnt pin it down to any one specific item but having had the motor apart recently I suspect that it was the chain on over-run as has been previously described in this thread. The duplex chains aren't tight on the cam and crank wheels when new and have no adjuster so are only taut as the crank pulls the cam. God alone knows what happens in there on the over-run. Put 50,000 miles of wear on it as well and its probable that this is a contributary factor if not the sole cause. I couldnt find any wear marks on the inside of the timing cover though so dont think its chain contact with the cover.

Havent had mine running for any length of time since nailing it all back together to tell if its been sorted during the rebuild. Wouldnt want to put money on it though.

Ive rebuilt mine with new cam, followers and adjustable pushrods so can report back once Ive got it MOT'd and a few miles on it if anyone would be interested?

I think Hexham HC are spot on - they all do that sir.

Edited by Marty V8 on Wednesday 13th July 00:18

450 miles on my rebuilt 500 motor now....yep noise is still there.

[TVR Beaver]

we'll have to have a rattle compertition at the next meeting.. see who's loudest!

is it exactly the same?.. 1200 rpm etc... if you hold this RPM does it fade or still clatter?...

O well.. at least you know it's nothing serious

[fastandcurious]

My 500 does it now after a full engine rebuild. Exactly as described just before settling at tickover. Interesting I never noticed it before the rebuild and during the first 1000 miles of running in whilst running on mineral oil. Only since changing to 10W40 semi.
Andy at APM Automotive says it's nothing to worry about and unless it gets louder, that's good enough for me.