crankshaft pulley wobble

[FlipFlopGriff]

griffer500 said:

I found the problem. I have a enormous play between the pulley and the crankshaft (couple of mm and at least 10 degrees when rotating) so much that the oil leaks between the key and pulley. I think the crank and pulley are scrap. For now a take a bottle of Johnny Walker and after that I go to talk with the bank manager that I need money for a new bottom end.

My pulley bolt was tight but as someone had added a shim behind the damper it wasnt pulling the damper and pulley tight enough. The shim was aluminium which isnt the best meterial and it had gone out of shape, the key had mainly disappeared (thank god for the big magnet on the oil filter), and the damper had seen better days, all contributing to the problem. Up shot - new shim, crank is OK (thankfully), new damper (SD1 so 6 x the 500 damper cost), new key designed as the standard one just kept slipping along the keyway, and as the damper assembly was slightly further out also needed a shim on the water pump pulley. No metal in the sump which is good. All new fluids/filters.
Over a grand spent but could have been much worse.
Thats 2 big bills in 12 months and I've covered about 250 miles!!
I didnt have an oil leak so yours must be worse. Good luck.
FFG

[spend]

FlipFlopGriff said:

griffer500 said:

I found the problem. I have a enormous play between the pulley and the crankshaft (couple of mm and at least 10 degrees when rotating) so much that the oil leaks between the key and pulley. I think the crank and pulley are scrap. For now a take a bottle of Johnny Walker and after that I go to talk with the bank manager that I need money for a new bottom end.

My pulley bolt was tight but as someone had added a shim behind the damper it wasnt pulling the damper and pulley tight enough. The shim was aluminium which isnt the best meterial and it had gone out of shape, the key had mainly disappeared (thank god for the big magnet on the oil filter), and the damper had seen better days, all contributing to the problem. Up shot - new shim, crank is OK (thankfully), new damper (SD1 so 6 x the 500 damper cost), new key designed as the standard one just kept slipping along the keyway, and as the damper assembly was slightly further out also needed a shim on the water pump pulley. No metal in the sump which is good. All new fluids/filters.
Over a grand spent but could have been much worse.
Thats 2 big bills in 12 months and I've covered about 250 miles!!
I didnt have an oil leak so yours must be worse. Good luck.
FFG

I worry that you may have a problem Paul, best to check with Dom + if/whoever did any frontend/cam work. IIRC 430 with std cam gear (non-vernier) has an alloy shim (about 5mm) up against the front (nearly next to main bearing cap) that the cam chain sprocket sits on. Always assumed this was a workaround with the particular crank being inbetween short/long nose for the serp changeover, never paid much attention just always made sure particular cam gear has sprockets lined up & clearing timing cover (various cams + timing gear seem to have subtle differences).

If the shim has been fitted in the wrong place it could be pretty awful on the cam chain, I'm not sure but I'd suggest checking with someone.

[FlipFlopGriff]

spend said:

I worry that you may have a problem Paul, best to check with Dom + if/whoever did any frontend/cam work. IIRC 430 with std cam gear (non-vernier) has an alloy shim (about 5mm) up against the front (nearly next to main bearing cap) that the cam chain sprocket sits on. Always assumed this was a workaround with the particular crank being inbetween short/long nose for the serp changeover, never paid much attention just always made sure particular cam gear has sprockets lined up & clearing timing cover (various cams + timing gear seem to have subtle differences).

If the shim has been fitted in the wrong place it could be pretty awful on the cam chain, I'm not sure but I'd suggest checking with someone.

Got me worried now so e-mail sent to repairer. It runs OK and seems to rev and pull better than before, but does sound a bit like it has a supercharger now with a slight whirring sound.
I thought the alloy shim was a bodge TBH.
FFG

[carsy]

My 430 doesnt have any such shim.

[spend]

carsy said:

My 430 doesnt have any such shim.

If you didn't inspect the front of the crank very closely with the cam sprocket off ~ its quite possible you wouldn't even notice it.

It's crank nose diameter & no keyway so has to be installed before the key is put in & conversely you have to get the key out to get it off (only really done if you have crank nitrided / tuftrided I'd suppose). If Pauls has been put in the wrong position they would have to cut / file a keyway so they'd know about it............. owning up being another matter, and as I said check with Dom he's the only one I'd trust to know on which particular engines they were fitted.

[FlipFlopGriff]

There wasnt much of the key left apparently and when a replacment was tried it kept sliding so a new one was made. Not my area of expertise I'm afraid.
I've asked Dom before and he told me its a standard 430 build, but probbaly couldn't be bothered to check knowing Dom.
FFG

[carsy]

spend said:

If you didn't inspect the front of the crank very closely with the cam sprocket off ~ its quite possible you wouldn't even notice it.

Stripped and rebuilt the engine Dave a couple of years ago, but pretty sure i didnt see any such shim unless i`ve forgotten You`ve got me worried now.

Anyone else seen this on a 4.3

Edited by carsy on Wednesday 21st May 18:20

[Chuffmeister]

FlipFlopGriff said:

but probbaly couldn't be bothered to check knowing Dom.
FFG

So are there issues with his work? I thought he was held in high regard. I was going to get him to balance my front crank pulley.

[griffer500]

What is the easiest way to "lock" the crank? I have the car in 1st gear, full on handbreak and my sons foot is on the breakpadle. The bold is torqued with 20kG/M. But the car stil runs forward.
Only when necessary I will remove the sump or the gearbox to lock the crank.

[FlipFlopGriff]

Chuffmeister said:

So are there issues with his work? I thought he was held in high regard. I was going to get him to balance my front crank pulley.

No issues with Doms work at all. Its just him with me - not sue if he's the same with anyone else.
FFG

[spend]

griffer500 said:

What is the easiest way to "lock" the crank? I have the car in 1st gear, full on handbreak and my sons foot is on the breakpadle. The bold is torqued with 20kG/M. But the car stil runs forward.
Only when necessary I will remove the sump or the gearbox to lock the crank.

Try it in 4th..

If your brakes aren't upto it the easiest way is to lock the flywheel by removing the starter and making a bracket up (but if you need to ask that is probably a non-starter ~ pun intended).

[griffer500]

This is how the pulley looks. The crank looks okay for now.

Edited by griffer500 on Friday 23 May 22:15

[spend]

griffer500 said:

This is how the pulley looks. The crank looks okay for now.

Edited by griffer500 on Friday 23 May 22:15

That looks like someone has attempted machining it for reason?

You should be able to get a decent engineer to have it welded up & the keyway recut so it slots in at the right place (otherwise the balance is totally out).

You may want to consider pinning the assembly, Personally I'd just replace / repair the damper (the pulley just bolts onto the damper which is what slides on the crank).