Nut and Bolt rebuild - sensible mods
Discussion
Pete Mac said:
swisstoni said:
I'm also impressed with garage. Care to name-check the architect / builders? I live in Berkshire too so would be helpful to know for future ref.
Hi swisstoni, Not wanting to hi-jack this thread with the garage but most important were the builders, I brought in 3 guys from Suffolk, who have worked for my brother off and on for the last 20 years. I paid them by the hour plus b&b and managed the work myself (cheapest and best way),I bought all the materials myself and 'managing' the boys basically meant making sure all the materials were there when required. I would recommend them anytime and execution of the job was fantastic - 3 months start to finish and I am not the biggest fan of builders.Structural engineer next. There was a lot of steel and the details for the 2-post lift were very important, although in the end I more or less told him how I wanted the rest of the steel and he did the calculations.
Architect was fine but the whole concept was mine so he turned it into plans and submitted it for planning. Planning was a nightmare, partly due to me initially cutting corners on the architect.
I pretty well knew what I wanted, I used my own tanking (waterproofing) system (Firestone EPDM) - highly successful as I didn't want a pump in the basement. I started off by thinking all I needed was a hole in the floor to make a 'pit' and then very soon realised that a 2-post lift was a very viable idea as well, which led to the idea of lowering stuff into the basement.
I am happy to share contact names, drawings, costs. I have all the construction photos (surprise, surprise) etc. E-mail me and let me know what you want. We can discuss on the phone or you can come and have a look if that suits you
Couple of thoughts from a man who owned 4 Griffs and did 150,000 miles in them
1 - Galvanising is a great idea, but the heat used may distort the chassis. When I had my 3000M chassis done I had it zinc sprayed. Then I ran out of money for a while and left it in a shed which regularly floods for about 5 years, lying on its side with the water running over it. 5 years later...good as new. It's cheaper and just as good as galvanising without the heat issues
2 - Griffs have the air intake and filter just behind the number plate and on 500s the top of the front is open so - in pouring rain, the filter gets waterlogged and the engine goes into limp mode. There is (apparently) some kind of bush mechanics fix, but I'd be inclined to reposition the air filter
3 - Moving the battery to the boot is OK so long as you have a two part roof, you probably should go for that anyway so you don't wind up with a start crack in the body at axle level behind the passenger rear wheel (most Griffs have/had this and it's caused by putting the roof in the boot)
4 - I had one Griff 500 with a low fuel warning light - good idea! and the optional cold air fan which keeps the footwells cool - also a good idea if your car hasn't got it
1 - Galvanising is a great idea, but the heat used may distort the chassis. When I had my 3000M chassis done I had it zinc sprayed. Then I ran out of money for a while and left it in a shed which regularly floods for about 5 years, lying on its side with the water running over it. 5 years later...good as new. It's cheaper and just as good as galvanising without the heat issues
2 - Griffs have the air intake and filter just behind the number plate and on 500s the top of the front is open so - in pouring rain, the filter gets waterlogged and the engine goes into limp mode. There is (apparently) some kind of bush mechanics fix, but I'd be inclined to reposition the air filter
3 - Moving the battery to the boot is OK so long as you have a two part roof, you probably should go for that anyway so you don't wind up with a start crack in the body at axle level behind the passenger rear wheel (most Griffs have/had this and it's caused by putting the roof in the boot)
4 - I had one Griff 500 with a low fuel warning light - good idea! and the optional cold air fan which keeps the footwells cool - also a good idea if your car hasn't got it
Hedgehopper]asper Gilder said:
1 - Galvanising is a great idea, but the heat used may distort the chassis.
I bought one of the then new factory galvanised Lotus Europa chassis and that was distorted. Unfortunately it wasn't common knowledge at the time of purchase.
Will never know. Was it distorted before galvanized? Badly set up gigs. Lotus were never Rolls R. Methinks, galvanize outriggers the worst for rot. Good powder coat/paint etc the main chassis.I bought one of the then new factory galvanised Lotus Europa chassis and that was distorted. Unfortunately it wasn't common knowledge at the time of purchase.
swisstoni said:
Pete, thanks for the offer of info. Sounds like you had more to do with the design and build than architect / builders so I won't trouble you for their details. It's a credit to you and has given me much food for thought.
Hi swisstoni, would definitely recommend the builders, I am sure they could do you a price if that is what you want. I am happy to share my planning permission drawings if that helps. The architect wasn't bad but I reckon any architect could have done this. The structural engineer was very important and I am happy to share his drawings and calculations and I am sure he could do you another. I was concerned about the 2 post lift sitting on the steels but he reassured me by saying it was just a matter of transferring the weight of the car from 4 points (the wheels) to 2 points (the 2 posts).I may not have said but the garage has also allowed me space for a very nice sized room in the loft as well, with 3 big veluxes. Good for another bedroom & bathroom.
Happy to discuss any time. Pete
Jasper Gilder said:
Couple of thoughts from a man who owned 4 Griffs and did 150,000 miles in them
1 - Galvanising is a great idea, but the heat used may distort the chassis. When I had my 3000M chassis done I had it zinc sprayed. Then I ran out of money for a while and left it in a shed which regularly floods for about 5 years, lying on its side with the water running over it. 5 years later...good as new. It's cheaper and just as good as galvanising without the heat issues
2 - Griffs have the air intake and filter just behind the number plate and on 500s the top of the front is open so - in pouring rain, the filter gets waterlogged and the engine goes into limp mode. There is (apparently) some kind of bush mechanics fix, but I'd be inclined to reposition the air filter
3 - Moving the battery to the boot is OK so long as you have a two part roof, you probably should go for that anyway so you don't wind up with a start crack in the body at axle level behind the passenger rear wheel (most Griffs have/had this and it's caused by putting the roof in the boot)
4 - I had one Griff 500 with a low fuel warning light - good idea! and the optional cold air fan which keeps the footwells cool - also a good idea if your car hasn't got it
Jasper, thanks for the points:1 - Galvanising is a great idea, but the heat used may distort the chassis. When I had my 3000M chassis done I had it zinc sprayed. Then I ran out of money for a while and left it in a shed which regularly floods for about 5 years, lying on its side with the water running over it. 5 years later...good as new. It's cheaper and just as good as galvanising without the heat issues
2 - Griffs have the air intake and filter just behind the number plate and on 500s the top of the front is open so - in pouring rain, the filter gets waterlogged and the engine goes into limp mode. There is (apparently) some kind of bush mechanics fix, but I'd be inclined to reposition the air filter
3 - Moving the battery to the boot is OK so long as you have a two part roof, you probably should go for that anyway so you don't wind up with a start crack in the body at axle level behind the passenger rear wheel (most Griffs have/had this and it's caused by putting the roof in the boot)
4 - I had one Griff 500 with a low fuel warning light - good idea! and the optional cold air fan which keeps the footwells cool - also a good idea if your car hasn't got it
1 - There has been much made of distortion but no evidence of it ever happening. I have spoken to a number of experts including Aston Martin (the man not the car) and we discussed distortion and we both agreed that there wasn't any way the chassis could distort due to its stressed members and providing it was plunged into the zinc bath quickly. The few threads on this matter I have read all mention distortion but none of the chassis that have been galvanised have actually distorted. Aston does do hot zinc spraying but he recommended me to go ahead with the galvanizing as it was overall better than hot zinc spray. The biggest issue is the drilling of the holes to prevent the tubes exploding with the expanding air in them, however you will see on the thread that I have put above that I have done quite a lot of research on this. As for the Europa chassis, I used to have an Elan Sprint and believe the chassis is made up of large areas of folded sheet steel, which is likely to distort when heated.
2 - Good point, was even considering changing the air filter, perhaps to a cylinder type, providing it gives better air flow
3 - On balance, I think I am going to leave the battery but spend a lot of time positioning the fuse box, the relays and the ECU so they are fixed, easily accessible and generally look more tidy.
4 - I hadn't considered the low fuel light, good one. As for the cool air fan, it's got it already.
Appreciate your ideas, Pete
Here we are Sunday evening, chassis from both ends:
Chassis all stripped down. Tomorrow I need to get that bush out and those three sheared bolts from the chassis as well as push all the bushes out of the wishbones, ready for blasting.
I take back my comments about using penetrating oil spray because it has worked a treat on all those nuts and bolts.
Chassis all stripped down. Tomorrow I need to get that bush out and those three sheared bolts from the chassis as well as push all the bushes out of the wishbones, ready for blasting.
I take back my comments about using penetrating oil spray because it has worked a treat on all those nuts and bolts.
Hedgehopper said:
There was a post the other day, I think on the Cerb forum, regarding removing suspension bushes from wishbones. Rather than burn the rubber out he cut it out with a hole-saw...said it took about 20 seconds per bush, and no horrible smell. Hope it helps.
Damn, wish I had read this earlier. Burnt it out, cut the bush outer and chiselled the damn thing out. Horrible smell .......!Now struggling with drilling out sheared off stud. Unfortunately got to go to a meeting in London tomorrow to earn some money to pay for the Griff!
Wouldn't want you lot to think I was skiving.....
Pressed out all those bushes. Some made an impressive bang when they first freed up:
And sent the chassis, wishbones, cross piece and the 3 brackets holding the diff to have some severe grit blasting to see if there were any holes. Meanwhile split the gearbox and engine and put the engine on a stand, ready for the strip down:
Chassis and bits returned:
It confirmed that in general the chassis etc. was in surprisingly good nick, so there is one for the record, not every chassis is totally f
d
The only rust hole was on one of the wishbones:
Easily repairable. The front wishbones have some rust pitting so I will have a think whether to replace or not.
Nice to be able to read the chassis number:
As well as the date manufactured:
Next jobs are to get those repairs done. Add the brackets for the seats and the battery box, drill the holes in the tube and get the bits off to be galvanized. Meanwhile plenty of other jobs to be getting on with and that's before I even contemplate doing the body......
Pressed out all those bushes. Some made an impressive bang when they first freed up:
And sent the chassis, wishbones, cross piece and the 3 brackets holding the diff to have some severe grit blasting to see if there were any holes. Meanwhile split the gearbox and engine and put the engine on a stand, ready for the strip down:
Chassis and bits returned:
It confirmed that in general the chassis etc. was in surprisingly good nick, so there is one for the record, not every chassis is totally f
dThe only rust hole was on one of the wishbones:
Easily repairable. The front wishbones have some rust pitting so I will have a think whether to replace or not.
Nice to be able to read the chassis number:
As well as the date manufactured:
Next jobs are to get those repairs done. Add the brackets for the seats and the battery box, drill the holes in the tube and get the bits off to be galvanized. Meanwhile plenty of other jobs to be getting on with and that's before I even contemplate doing the body......
John, I wasn't sure how interested people actually where in the rebuild, clearly you are. I am back in Kazakhstan earning the dosh to pay for the rebuild (and two daughters at University) but will update you with photos tomorrow.
I have a bit of a dilemma right now. I think the 'Green Meanie', which was the Griff that I was keeping as the driver has blown one (or two) head gasket(s). No oil in the water but it keeps using water and there are bubbles in the water. Not sure whether to take engine out and rebuild myself or to take egine out and hand over to TVR Power for a Taraka (plus many thousands of pounds). When I return I will do some compression tests to decide way forward. Any suggestions welcome, options look like:
I will update on the rebuild tomorrow.
I have a bit of a dilemma right now. I think the 'Green Meanie', which was the Griff that I was keeping as the driver has blown one (or two) head gasket(s). No oil in the water but it keeps using water and there are bubbles in the water. Not sure whether to take engine out and rebuild myself or to take egine out and hand over to TVR Power for a Taraka (plus many thousands of pounds). When I return I will do some compression tests to decide way forward. Any suggestions welcome, options look like:
- Take out engine and replace head gasket (optimistic but minimum cost)
- Take out engine and do minimum rebuild (still optimistic and medium cost)
- Take out engine and do major rebuild (could be major cost depending on what I find)
- Take out engine and hand over to TVR Power (major cost)
- Give car to TVR Power and leave the whole lot to them (mega cost)
I will update on the rebuild tomorrow.
Ouch! As if you havn't hands full already!
Blew a water hose on mine back in June when half way up a mountain track on a very hot day. Managed to freewheel back down for almost 3 miles and then let it cool. Got some water into it from nearby river and staggered the half mile home. So far so good.
Hope that doesn't turn out any worse than gaskets. Fingers crossed for you.
Blew a water hose on mine back in June when half way up a mountain track on a very hot day. Managed to freewheel back down for almost 3 miles and then let it cool. Got some water into it from nearby river and staggered the half mile home. So far so good.
Hope that doesn't turn out any worse than gaskets. Fingers crossed for you.
carsy said:
If you are sure it is head gaskets, the heads can be taken off with engine still in the car.
Could it be the block gone porous (hope not).
I was constantly using water and I noticed a pinhole leak in the radiator. I am afraid I did a quick fix on that with k-seal but it still lost water. I made up a funnel which screwed into the swirl pot so I could properly get the air out of the system but I coud not get rid of the bubbles. The car does not appear to overheat though.Could it be the block gone porous (hope not).
I spoke to Dom at TVR Power and he reckoned that head gaskets don't blow but rather the liners slip causing exhaust gases to get into the water or water in the oil etc. If the exhaust gases get into the water then the pressure may then cause the radiator leak.....
I could do the head gasket insitu, however by the time I have taken those b
d exhaust manifold bolts out, I may as well take the engine and box out and then be able to get to everything (and probably quicker at the end of the day).I suspect what I will end up doing is strip the engine myself, get some stepped liners put in and generally upgrade the engine with whatever needs doing and it will also give me the opportunity of putting in a new clutch while I am at it.
Having had the chassis and other bits blasted I then ordered some 2mm mild steel folded into channel 35mm wide by 15mm sides. Four pieces to be welded longitudinally on the chassis to secure the seats and one laterally to secure the battery box.
I then spent quite a time chasing those threads (9/16 UNF I believe) for all the chassis and seat belt bolts. I sprayed in a load of penetrating oil and then blasted it through with an air gun to get rid of all the accumulated crap from the last 18 years - I do realise that I will have to chase them again once the chassis has been galvanized and powder coated but it was a good opportunity to clear them of all the dirt and rust.
I then proceeded to strip down the front hubs:
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/MfLGdoJo.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/crjtMas0" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/crjtMas0.jpg)
Those hub nuts are a real bd to get off. I started with a one metre breaker bar, I then tried a lump hammer and chisel but in the end an air wrench did the job but it need a lot of chuntering before they moved (photo is a rear hub):
One hub was good but the other had clearly been contaminated. Not only that but there was a rusty ball bearing beneath the dust cover:
Fk knows where that came from as the bearings are tapered roller bearings.....!
I pushed out the bushes from the rear hubs:
I even pushed out the wheel studs (a real strip down):
That 20 tonne press has paid for itself already. I recommend one for those people who do a lot of the work themselves and they are not expensive (I paid £180).
The folded channel came the day I was leaving so no chance to do anything with it. I return to UK 6th March so until then no progress but jobs will be to drop the body on the chassis, offer up the channel and tack it to the chassis then weld it, drill seat and battery box holes. Drill holes in chassis then get it off to the galvanizers. After that I need to do something about the engine for the 'Green Meanie'..... Suggestions on a postcard please.
My little present to me, whilst out here will be a blast cabinet so I can clean up all those bits and pieces. I bought a 900mm oven from fleaBay for £7.98 and I plan to do a lot of the powder coating of all the bits and pieces myself.
I am a friendly sort of bloke so if it is convenient and you think it is local enough then feel free to come and use the press etc. when I am back. I have already met up with Rob the Sparky and we had a nice blast along the road despite the local constabulary pulling out behind us....
I then spent quite a time chasing those threads (9/16 UNF I believe) for all the chassis and seat belt bolts. I sprayed in a load of penetrating oil and then blasted it through with an air gun to get rid of all the accumulated crap from the last 18 years - I do realise that I will have to chase them again once the chassis has been galvanized and powder coated but it was a good opportunity to clear them of all the dirt and rust.
I then proceeded to strip down the front hubs:
Those hub nuts are a real b
d to get off. I started with a one metre breaker bar, I then tried a lump hammer and chisel but in the end an air wrench did the job but it need a lot of chuntering before they moved (photo is a rear hub):One hub was good but the other had clearly been contaminated. Not only that but there was a rusty ball bearing beneath the dust cover:
F
k knows where that came from as the bearings are tapered roller bearings.....!I pushed out the bushes from the rear hubs:
I even pushed out the wheel studs (a real strip down):
That 20 tonne press has paid for itself already. I recommend one for those people who do a lot of the work themselves and they are not expensive (I paid £180).
The folded channel came the day I was leaving so no chance to do anything with it. I return to UK 6th March so until then no progress but jobs will be to drop the body on the chassis, offer up the channel and tack it to the chassis then weld it, drill seat and battery box holes. Drill holes in chassis then get it off to the galvanizers. After that I need to do something about the engine for the 'Green Meanie'..... Suggestions on a postcard please.
My little present to me, whilst out here will be a blast cabinet so I can clean up all those bits and pieces. I bought a 900mm oven from fleaBay for £7.98 and I plan to do a lot of the powder coating of all the bits and pieces myself.
I am a friendly sort of bloke so if it is convenient and you think it is local enough then feel free to come and use the press etc. when I am back. I have already met up with Rob the Sparky and we had a nice blast along the road despite the local constabulary pulling out behind us....
Edited by Pete Mac on Saturday 8th February 17:42
Hi,
Great thread, keep it coming.
Here is a thread on the Chimaera side about covering the Front end of the outriggers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1107773&d=11735.75850&nmt
Some more professionally than others :-)
If you were thinking of getting mapping done on the old Lucas system, I think Mark Adams is away doing a Uni Course so isn't doing mapping at the moment. So might be worth looking at the Lloyds kits http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/engine-management-kits
And that would clean up your wiring loom too.
Don't know what was different on the 500, but perhaps widening of trumpets & porting and polishing?
HTH
Mark
Great thread, keep it coming.
Here is a thread on the Chimaera side about covering the Front end of the outriggers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1107773&d=11735.75850&nmt
Some more professionally than others :-)
If you were thinking of getting mapping done on the old Lucas system, I think Mark Adams is away doing a Uni Course so isn't doing mapping at the moment. So might be worth looking at the Lloyds kits http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/engine-management-kits
And that would clean up your wiring loom too.
Don't know what was different on the 500, but perhaps widening of trumpets & porting and polishing?
HTH
Mark
Mark_S_24 said:
Hi,
Great thread, keep it coming.
Here is a thread on the Chimaera side about covering the Front end of the outriggers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1107773&d=11735.75850&nmt
Some more professionally than others :-)
If you were thinking of getting mapping done on the old Lucas system, I think Mark Adams is away doing a Uni Course so isn't doing mapping at the moment. So might be worth looking at the Lloyds kits http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/engine-management-kits
And that would clean up your wiring loom too.
Don't know what was different on the 500, but perhaps widening of trumpets & porting and polishing?
HTH
Mark
Hi MarkGreat thread, keep it coming.
Here is a thread on the Chimaera side about covering the Front end of the outriggers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1107773&d=11735.75850&nmt
Some more professionally than others :-)
If you were thinking of getting mapping done on the old Lucas system, I think Mark Adams is away doing a Uni Course so isn't doing mapping at the moment. So might be worth looking at the Lloyds kits http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/engine-management-kits
And that would clean up your wiring loom too.
Don't know what was different on the 500, but perhaps widening of trumpets & porting and polishing?
HTH
Mark
I've tried both these threads and neither of them work. Any chance of having another go.
Pete
EGB said:
Is your Green Meanie a Starmist Ocean Haze, like mine? Just curious.
Edited by EGB on Saturday 18th January 18:44
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