Wildcat Rover V8 in Mod Griffith chassis
Discussion
Hi Mac
What selector mod are you referring to?
The carbon lining in the blocking rings (synchros) acts as a brake and helps the blocking rings match the speed of the spinning gear assembly on the main shaft allowing quick gear changes.
Well that's the theory. I will have to wait a while to find out what it is like in reality
wildcat600
What selector mod are you referring to?
The carbon lining in the blocking rings (synchros) acts as a brake and helps the blocking rings match the speed of the spinning gear assembly on the main shaft allowing quick gear changes.
Well that's the theory. I will have to wait a while to find out what it is like in reality
wildcat600
Hi Rik
Nice addition to the thread. Any chance you could add a photo of the Cobra with your Wildcat engine.
Could you tell me where you got the roller lifters from?
Are they hydraulic or solid roller lifter?
What valve springs are you using with your roller cam and where did you get them from?
Thanks in advance
wildcat600
Nice addition to the thread. Any chance you could add a photo of the Cobra with your Wildcat engine.
Could you tell me where you got the roller lifters from?
Are they hydraulic or solid roller lifter?
What valve springs are you using with your roller cam and where did you get them from?
Thanks in advance
wildcat600
Hi Rik
I believe Roland will have 47mm throttle bodies available in the future.
I had Ian sleeve my throttle bodies down to 45mm when I bought them.
I agree the later spec Stage 1 perform as well as the Stage 2 a low valve lift.
From my research an engine built to produce over 500hp naturally aspirated will need a pair of Stage 2 Wildcat Heads.
Also the stage 2 heads are perfect for Forced induction or a Nitrous engine.
wildcat600
I believe Roland will have 47mm throttle bodies available in the future.
I had Ian sleeve my throttle bodies down to 45mm when I bought them.
I agree the later spec Stage 1 perform as well as the Stage 2 a low valve lift.
From my research an engine built to produce over 500hp naturally aspirated will need a pair of Stage 2 Wildcat Heads.
Also the stage 2 heads are perfect for Forced induction or a Nitrous engine.
wildcat600
Here's the latest
Back in December 2014, I commissioned someone to sort out a Griffith body that will fit my modified Griffith chassis. The estimated time frame given was six months. Currently the work is 55% complete. Hoping to get the modified body back later this year. I'm still motivated and visit the workshop in question twice a month.
wildcat600
Back in December 2014, I commissioned someone to sort out a Griffith body that will fit my modified Griffith chassis. The estimated time frame given was six months. Currently the work is 55% complete. Hoping to get the modified body back later this year. I'm still motivated and visit the workshop in question twice a month.
wildcat600
I read with interest the information on TA heads. When carrying out some of my own research, I was lucky enough to locate a pair of TA Heads to compare with a pair of Wildcat heads. I was surprised to find how similar the TA heads are to Wildcat. Given Wildcat started producing these heads for the Rover V8 in 1995 and TA Performance versions came to market around 2009 /2010, it would appear Ian Richardson's brain child 'Wildcat heads' are the original game changer
I have also noticed that a certain tuner in Australia is no longer promoting Wildcat products, instead he is now selling TA Heads as his product.
Some photos showing the Wildcat cylinder head on the left, TA version on the right.
I quote 'Imitation is the highest form of flattery'
Wildcat600
I have also noticed that a certain tuner in Australia is no longer promoting Wildcat products, instead he is now selling TA Heads as his product.
Some photos showing the Wildcat cylinder head on the left, TA version on the right.
I quote 'Imitation is the highest form of flattery'
Wildcat600
Dan Jones said:
> I was surprised to find how similar the TA heads are to Wildcat.
As I understand it, the Wildcat heads were based upon Buick Stage I and Stage II V6 aftermarket cylinder heads. TA makes their own version of the Buick V6 Stage I heads and based their Rover heads on those. The original Buick V6 heads were much like the Buick 215/Rover heads. The Buick 215 aluminum V8 was introduced in 1961 and the 198 cast iron V6 was introduced a year later. Smokey Yunick redesigned the Buick V6 heads for 1979 but was constrained by what could be produced using existing production tooling. Buick introduced a "Stage I" performance version of the redesigned Buick V6 heads and a higher performance "Stage II" race head.
The Stage 1 heads were produced on production tooling and shared the OEM style combustion chamber. The Stage II got the kidney bean shaped combustion chambers. Given the popularity of the turbocharged Buick Grand National, there were several aftermarket versions of the Buick V6 Stage I heads including those from Champion and TA Performance.
> Given Wildcat started producing these heads for the Rover V8 in 1995 and TA Performance versions came to market around 2009 /2010, it would appear Ian Richardson's brain child 'Wildcat heads' are the original game changer
I think you'll find the TA Performance Buick V6 heads pre-date the Wildcat heads and the Stage I Buick V6 heads pre-date both of those.
> I have also noticed that a certain tuner in Australia is no longer promoting Wildcat products, instead he is now selling TA Heads as his product.
If you are referring to Triumph Rover Spares, TRS was the launch customer for the TA Rover heads and got the first batch of cylinder heads made. My assembled TA Rover heads have the TRS logo on them while the unassembled set do not.
> Some photos showing the Wildcat cylinder head on the left, TA version on the right.
Given that both the Wildcat and TA Rover heads are based upon the Buick V6 Stage series of heads, it's not surprising they look quite similar. The intake ports of the Wildcat heads look to be raised higher than the TA heads so would require a wider intake manifold. Years ago I received a Wildcat single plane intake manifold in exchange for some consulting work on a Rover engine. I assumed it would be similar to the Willpower I currently have but, while it looked similar, it was wider than a Rover or a Buick 300 intake. At the time, we thought it might be for a P76 but it's clear now it was for the Wildcat heads.
> I know the Wildcats are much heavier but I did not weigh them.
I weighed an unassembled TA Rover head at 27 lbs and an assembled head (with Bob's port work but no rocker arms) at 31 lbs. I previously weighed a bare 1964 aluminum Buick 300 head at 13 lbs and a completely assembled Buick 300 head (shafts, stands, rockers, bolts, plugs) at 18 lbs.
Dan Jones
It seems to me you are Mr TA Heads?As I understand it, the Wildcat heads were based upon Buick Stage I and Stage II V6 aftermarket cylinder heads. TA makes their own version of the Buick V6 Stage I heads and based their Rover heads on those. The original Buick V6 heads were much like the Buick 215/Rover heads. The Buick 215 aluminum V8 was introduced in 1961 and the 198 cast iron V6 was introduced a year later. Smokey Yunick redesigned the Buick V6 heads for 1979 but was constrained by what could be produced using existing production tooling. Buick introduced a "Stage I" performance version of the redesigned Buick V6 heads and a higher performance "Stage II" race head.
The Stage 1 heads were produced on production tooling and shared the OEM style combustion chamber. The Stage II got the kidney bean shaped combustion chambers. Given the popularity of the turbocharged Buick Grand National, there were several aftermarket versions of the Buick V6 Stage I heads including those from Champion and TA Performance.
> Given Wildcat started producing these heads for the Rover V8 in 1995 and TA Performance versions came to market around 2009 /2010, it would appear Ian Richardson's brain child 'Wildcat heads' are the original game changer
I think you'll find the TA Performance Buick V6 heads pre-date the Wildcat heads and the Stage I Buick V6 heads pre-date both of those.
> I have also noticed that a certain tuner in Australia is no longer promoting Wildcat products, instead he is now selling TA Heads as his product.
If you are referring to Triumph Rover Spares, TRS was the launch customer for the TA Rover heads and got the first batch of cylinder heads made. My assembled TA Rover heads have the TRS logo on them while the unassembled set do not.
> Some photos showing the Wildcat cylinder head on the left, TA version on the right.
Given that both the Wildcat and TA Rover heads are based upon the Buick V6 Stage series of heads, it's not surprising they look quite similar. The intake ports of the Wildcat heads look to be raised higher than the TA heads so would require a wider intake manifold. Years ago I received a Wildcat single plane intake manifold in exchange for some consulting work on a Rover engine. I assumed it would be similar to the Willpower I currently have but, while it looked similar, it was wider than a Rover or a Buick 300 intake. At the time, we thought it might be for a P76 but it's clear now it was for the Wildcat heads.
> I know the Wildcats are much heavier but I did not weigh them.
I weighed an unassembled TA Rover head at 27 lbs and an assembled head (with Bob's port work but no rocker arms) at 31 lbs. I previously weighed a bare 1964 aluminum Buick 300 head at 13 lbs and a completely assembled Buick 300 head (shafts, stands, rockers, bolts, plugs) at 18 lbs.
Dan Jones
"My assembled TA Rover heads have the TRS logo on them while the unassembled set do not"
Is this the case?
As for Wildcat design influences,
"As I understand it, the Wildcat heads were based upon Buick Stage I and Stage II V6 aftermarket cylinder heads"
Did Ian Richardson tell you this or is this how you designed the TA heads for the Rover V8 engine?
Generally I would find it easier to follow your posting if you added some specific dates and focused on the aftermarket Rover V8 heads.
Thanks
Dan Jones
That's an impressive display of cylinder heads. What are the other heads shown?
It's nice to see a Gurney Weslake head as developed in the sixties by Harry Weslake and his team in Rye, East Sussex, shown in your photo. Is it for a 302 or 351 Ford V8 engine?
"If you are referring to Triumph Rover Spares, TRS was the launch customer for the TA Rover heads and got the first batch of cylinder heads made. "
I have been wondering why a company in America would produce aftermarket cylinder heads for the Rover V8 and then ship the first batch to Australia to launch the product. Would it not make more business sense to launch the product in America or the UK?
Were they made to order? Is that why the first batch went to Australia?
"Bob was really jazzed about the TA heads and lightweight Rover V8. He noted there was room on the cylinder head to raise the roof a 1/2" and thought that raising the roof, filling the floor and use a larger intake valve, he could get well over 320 CFM out of the intake ports"
This is not a new idea, it is already part of the Wildcat heads design, as can be seen in the photo already posted.
"Your post made implied that the TA Rover heads were based upon the Wildcat Engineering heads. I simply attempted to point out that both heads are based upon the earlier Buick V6 Stage I and II designs."
I'm implying nothing. Based on the relevant application I'm sure they are both good products.
What I am saying is the Wildcat Rover V8 cylinder heads were produced in 1995 and I understand the TA version came out some 14 to 15 years later. This is not implied. This is a historic fact.
"I was asked to post some information on the (relatively) new TA Performance Rover heads"
To me they are not (relatively) new, (circa 2010) just a variation on a theme, similar to what had already been achieved by Ian Richardson who should be acknowledged. Prior to Ian's contribution we were stuck with the standard casting.
As we both know, engine development influences come from various engines regardless of number of cylinders and size.
The Oldsmobile's cylinder heads have the valves positioned on the cylinder centre line
I could go on and say the Buick V6 roots come from the Oldsmobile's F85 V8 engine, but that's another discussion. I'm simply referring to the cylinder heads for the Rover V8 engine.
wildcat600
That's an impressive display of cylinder heads. What are the other heads shown?
It's nice to see a Gurney Weslake head as developed in the sixties by Harry Weslake and his team in Rye, East Sussex, shown in your photo. Is it for a 302 or 351 Ford V8 engine?
"If you are referring to Triumph Rover Spares, TRS was the launch customer for the TA Rover heads and got the first batch of cylinder heads made. "
I have been wondering why a company in America would produce aftermarket cylinder heads for the Rover V8 and then ship the first batch to Australia to launch the product. Would it not make more business sense to launch the product in America or the UK?
Were they made to order? Is that why the first batch went to Australia?
"Bob was really jazzed about the TA heads and lightweight Rover V8. He noted there was room on the cylinder head to raise the roof a 1/2" and thought that raising the roof, filling the floor and use a larger intake valve, he could get well over 320 CFM out of the intake ports"
This is not a new idea, it is already part of the Wildcat heads design, as can be seen in the photo already posted.
"Your post made implied that the TA Rover heads were based upon the Wildcat Engineering heads. I simply attempted to point out that both heads are based upon the earlier Buick V6 Stage I and II designs."
I'm implying nothing. Based on the relevant application I'm sure they are both good products.
What I am saying is the Wildcat Rover V8 cylinder heads were produced in 1995 and I understand the TA version came out some 14 to 15 years later. This is not implied. This is a historic fact.
"I was asked to post some information on the (relatively) new TA Performance Rover heads"
To me they are not (relatively) new, (circa 2010) just a variation on a theme, similar to what had already been achieved by Ian Richardson who should be acknowledged. Prior to Ian's contribution we were stuck with the standard casting.
As we both know, engine development influences come from various engines regardless of number of cylinders and size.
The Oldsmobile's cylinder heads have the valves positioned on the cylinder centre line
I could go on and say the Buick V6 roots come from the Oldsmobile's F85 V8 engine, but that's another discussion. I'm simply referring to the cylinder heads for the Rover V8 engine.
wildcat600
Edited by wildcat600 on Wednesday 24th February 00:10
Dan Jones
"Here are what are probably the first race heads designed for the Buick 215"
Very interesting. Never seen anything like those before. Do you still have them?
Have you run them on an engine?
Dual four barrel manifold looks fab too.
Do these relate to the Traco Oldsmobile race engines?
Wish I was local, would be great to see these in the flesh and talk Buick Rover Olds over a beer.
wildcat600
"Here are what are probably the first race heads designed for the Buick 215"
Very interesting. Never seen anything like those before. Do you still have them?
Have you run them on an engine?
Dual four barrel manifold looks fab too.
Do these relate to the Traco Oldsmobile race engines?
Wish I was local, would be great to see these in the flesh and talk Buick Rover Olds over a beer.
wildcat600
MPoxon
Using a standard injection rover manifold, Edelbrock Performer or the Offenhauser Dual Port, will reduce the flow potential of either cylinder head. This is due to the length of intake runners combined with the changes in direction and cross sectional restrictions the air has to travel through on its way from the inlet point to the inlet valves.
High rise type manifolds like the Willpower, Harcourt, Wildcat and Huffaker would be an improvement, but four twin choke down draught carbs or individual throttle bodies will allow you to take full advantage of either TA or Wildcat cylinder heads.
wildcat600
Using a standard injection rover manifold, Edelbrock Performer or the Offenhauser Dual Port, will reduce the flow potential of either cylinder head. This is due to the length of intake runners combined with the changes in direction and cross sectional restrictions the air has to travel through on its way from the inlet point to the inlet valves.
High rise type manifolds like the Willpower, Harcourt, Wildcat and Huffaker would be an improvement, but four twin choke down draught carbs or individual throttle bodies will allow you to take full advantage of either TA or Wildcat cylinder heads.
wildcat600
rev-erend said:
Bit more history for you that pre dates Wilcat..Repco Brabham version of these engines
https://primotipo.com/2014/08/07/rb620-v8-building...
Even mention of a flat plane crank..
Interesting Repco video on YouTube. It's around 30mins long. Within the last 5mins there is short clip of Olds 215 block being machined for the F1 engine.https://primotipo.com/2014/08/07/rb620-v8-building...
Even mention of a flat plane crank..
wildcat600
Dan Jones
Thanks for the info.
I normally get my flow figures based on 10 inch pressure. so it's going to take me a while to get my head around the flow figures you have kindly provided.
I have enjoyed our exchange and have been motivated to purchase the following.
1962 Sport Car Graphic magazine which has an article on the rear engine Scarab-Buick
The Buick Free Spirit Power Manual
I don't know if you have a copy of HP BOOKS "How to Hotrod your Buick V6", if you haven't you might find it an interesting read.
All the best with your projects. wildcat600
Thanks for the info.
I normally get my flow figures based on 10 inch pressure. so it's going to take me a while to get my head around the flow figures you have kindly provided.
I have enjoyed our exchange and have been motivated to purchase the following.
1962 Sport Car Graphic magazine which has an article on the rear engine Scarab-Buick
The Buick Free Spirit Power Manual
I don't know if you have a copy of HP BOOKS "How to Hotrod your Buick V6", if you haven't you might find it an interesting read.
All the best with your projects. wildcat600
Boosted LS1 said:
All, the main builders/experts have read that book but it's an industry secret, lol. TVR people are like monaro people, 10 years behind the times and just discovering new things like the turbocharger and other mysterious witchcraft :-)
Another classic book some experts might want to consider reading, Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 24th February 08:11
"How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie
wildcat600
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