Gauge dimensions Griff
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, I've recently become a Griff owner for the first time. One of few here in Sweden where I live!
I'm in the middle of restoring and somewhat modifying my car and as always questions arise. Many answers can be found in this excellent forum, I have noticed. You guys can really inspire when hours on the garage floor begins to feel dark...
Working on the dash and dials right now. Apparently there are different sizes of the gauges, the smaller ones seem to have either the aftermarket standard size 52 mm or the more odd 61 mm (approx) as on my car. Are the bigger ones harder to find as spare? More expensive, I assume. Maybe look a little less kit car-like in car...?
As for the speedo and tacho, are there different sizes here also? I've seen some smaller deviations of say 1-2 mm in different dash holes. Looking for a replacement for my wasted speedo, found a seller on Ebay ("mookeys-dad") who lists a couple of "TVR speedos" without specifying model or size. Perhaps not needed if they are all practically interchangable? What about the sensor?
And then... the colour of the facia. How do I know if mine is biscuit, buff or oat? It looks like buff, or biscuit. Or...
/Stefan
I'm new to this forum, I've recently become a Griff owner for the first time. One of few here in Sweden where I live!
I'm in the middle of restoring and somewhat modifying my car and as always questions arise. Many answers can be found in this excellent forum, I have noticed. You guys can really inspire when hours on the garage floor begins to feel dark...
Working on the dash and dials right now. Apparently there are different sizes of the gauges, the smaller ones seem to have either the aftermarket standard size 52 mm or the more odd 61 mm (approx) as on my car. Are the bigger ones harder to find as spare? More expensive, I assume. Maybe look a little less kit car-like in car...?
As for the speedo and tacho, are there different sizes here also? I've seen some smaller deviations of say 1-2 mm in different dash holes. Looking for a replacement for my wasted speedo, found a seller on Ebay ("mookeys-dad") who lists a couple of "TVR speedos" without specifying model or size. Perhaps not needed if they are all practically interchangable? What about the sensor?
And then... the colour of the facia. How do I know if mine is biscuit, buff or oat? It looks like buff, or biscuit. Or...
/Stefan
Hi Stefan and welcome to the forum.
There are different types of clocks in our cars. Which are likely to affect the size of hole in the dash.
Let's at least start by understanding which type you have.
Does your speedo and tachometer start at the 2 o'clock position with the bezels flush to the dash
Like this dash - which is a pre cat
or do the speedo and tachometer start at the more traditional 8 o'clock position with the bezels of the dials sitting on the dash
Like this one here which is the later dash
There are different types of clocks in our cars. Which are likely to affect the size of hole in the dash.
Let's at least start by understanding which type you have.
Does your speedo and tachometer start at the 2 o'clock position with the bezels flush to the dash
Like this dash - which is a pre cat
or do the speedo and tachometer start at the more traditional 8 o'clock position with the bezels of the dials sitting on the dash
Like this one here which is the later dash
Edited by Barreti on Wednesday 14th January 05:32
Thanks for the welcome!
Mine are as in the second picture, it's a Griffith 500 1995 with cat.
I think that there may be size variations also on later post-1995 Griffs with cat. The thing is that I just received a carbon fibre dash from ACT made from a spare that was available at ACT. I did not send in my standard dash for preparation as I only have a Leven alu which I want to keep. The disposition of the gauges is correct (as for 1995-onwards), but the sizes of the holes are too small (52 mm). Since I like the bigger gauges better I will probably simply make the holes bigger.
More strange is the two big dials, speedo and tacho. These holes are just slightly smaller on my new dash. Since I'm looking for a replacement speedo this worries a bit, will all speedos 1995-onwards fit?
Mine are as in the second picture, it's a Griffith 500 1995 with cat.
I think that there may be size variations also on later post-1995 Griffs with cat. The thing is that I just received a carbon fibre dash from ACT made from a spare that was available at ACT. I did not send in my standard dash for preparation as I only have a Leven alu which I want to keep. The disposition of the gauges is correct (as for 1995-onwards), but the sizes of the holes are too small (52 mm). Since I like the bigger gauges better I will probably simply make the holes bigger.
More strange is the two big dials, speedo and tacho. These holes are just slightly smaller on my new dash. Since I'm looking for a replacement speedo this worries a bit, will all speedos 1995-onwards fit?
My "new" Cerbera speedo to the right, the old Griff to the left. As seen there are differencies, but both have three cables to make the speedo work (aside from the extra cables for a couple of warning lights on the Cerb).
Do you think I will do with my existing sensor or do I have to get a Cerbera specific one? I've seen Chimaeras with this type of speedo also. And not to forget - does anybody just happen to know which cable to put where? TVR and proper wiring diagrams don't seem to be very compatible.
Hi,
it appears you are looking to switch from black rimmed ETB gauges (fitted to early Chimaeras and to some 94 Griffiths) to silver rimmed Caerbont (CIA) gauges. This I have also done.
For the speedo wiring green (12v ignition on), black (earth) are the same, ETB signal in is the blue wire, Caerbont signal in is the yellow wire.
As you have found the ETB minor gauges are about 62 mm, Caerbont 52 mm. The main gauges are vey similar around 100 - 102 mm. I found I could fit the main Caerbont gauges into the dash holes used for ETB gauges.
As for the speedo sensor, yes the one fitted for the ETB speedo does work with the Caerbont speedo. However, all ETB speedos would have used the GKN diff with nose mounted 16 tooth sensor trigger ring. Most Caerbont speedos would have used the BTR diff utilising the 48 (I think) tooth output shaft flange. Chances are your Caerbont speedo will need recalibrating or alteration to the GKN trigger ring needed. You maybe lucky as there was a crossover period were Caerbont gauges were fitted to TVRs with GKN diff.
Ozstyle
it appears you are looking to switch from black rimmed ETB gauges (fitted to early Chimaeras and to some 94 Griffiths) to silver rimmed Caerbont (CIA) gauges. This I have also done.
For the speedo wiring green (12v ignition on), black (earth) are the same, ETB signal in is the blue wire, Caerbont signal in is the yellow wire.
As you have found the ETB minor gauges are about 62 mm, Caerbont 52 mm. The main gauges are vey similar around 100 - 102 mm. I found I could fit the main Caerbont gauges into the dash holes used for ETB gauges.
As for the speedo sensor, yes the one fitted for the ETB speedo does work with the Caerbont speedo. However, all ETB speedos would have used the GKN diff with nose mounted 16 tooth sensor trigger ring. Most Caerbont speedos would have used the BTR diff utilising the 48 (I think) tooth output shaft flange. Chances are your Caerbont speedo will need recalibrating or alteration to the GKN trigger ring needed. You maybe lucky as there was a crossover period were Caerbont gauges were fitted to TVRs with GKN diff.
Ozstyle
Ozstyle, thank you for your informative answer! Makes things much clearer. There's a lot of expertise on this forum, I've noticed as the newcomer I am.
My Griffith is a late 1994 and has the black rimmed ETB gauges and a GKN diff with 16 tooth trigger wheel on prop shaft (just checked).
So, here I am with a Caerbont speedo intended for a BTR diff with 48 tooth (or so) trigger wheel on the drive shaft. OK, so these would be my alternatives then (note the question marks):
- Keep the 16 tooth trigger wheel and recalibrate the speedo. I haven't the slightest idea how this would be performed. Anyone?
- Fit a new 48 tooth trigger wheel to my GKN diff. Well, I guess that such part is not available anywhere, especially as the BTR uses the driveshaft and not the propshaft for this purpose. Perhaps I will have to fabricate one myself, or has anyone already ...? Please let me know.
- Switch from GKN to BTR diff altogether, hmm... does not make much sense that a simple speedo swap would lead me to an extensive (and expensive) operation like that, eh...
My Griffith is a late 1994 and has the black rimmed ETB gauges and a GKN diff with 16 tooth trigger wheel on prop shaft (just checked).
So, here I am with a Caerbont speedo intended for a BTR diff with 48 tooth (or so) trigger wheel on the drive shaft. OK, so these would be my alternatives then (note the question marks):
- Keep the 16 tooth trigger wheel and recalibrate the speedo. I haven't the slightest idea how this would be performed. Anyone?
- Fit a new 48 tooth trigger wheel to my GKN diff. Well, I guess that such part is not available anywhere, especially as the BTR uses the driveshaft and not the propshaft for this purpose. Perhaps I will have to fabricate one myself, or has anyone already ...? Please let me know.
- Switch from GKN to BTR diff altogether, hmm... does not make much sense that a simple speedo swap would lead me to an extensive (and expensive) operation like that, eh...
Hi,
if I was in your position fit the new speedo (you will have to make some temporary wire connectors)and see how it compares against your GPS speed reading. You could also put the back end on axle stands and see what speed you get for a given a given rpm, If I recall every 1000 rpm = about 23 mph or 37 kph in 4th gear (that's how I did it, saves having to fully refit the dash to check it out)
In my case the speedo I had needed repairing. Sent it away and when it came back it had new internals and the ability to calibrate it from the outside. I used Speedy cables.
The other option would be to get a new trigger wheel for the front of the diff. Or modify the one you have, I think I worked out I would have to bend 1 or 2 teeth back on the GKN trigger wheel so not to be picked up by the sensor. Note the sensor used for the ETB gauges needs to have a gap of approx 1-2 mm between it and the trigger wheel, too close or far away and the speedo will read incorrectly.
Oz
if I was in your position fit the new speedo (you will have to make some temporary wire connectors)and see how it compares against your GPS speed reading. You could also put the back end on axle stands and see what speed you get for a given a given rpm, If I recall every 1000 rpm = about 23 mph or 37 kph in 4th gear (that's how I did it, saves having to fully refit the dash to check it out)
In my case the speedo I had needed repairing. Sent it away and when it came back it had new internals and the ability to calibrate it from the outside. I used Speedy cables.
The other option would be to get a new trigger wheel for the front of the diff. Or modify the one you have, I think I worked out I would have to bend 1 or 2 teeth back on the GKN trigger wheel so not to be picked up by the sensor. Note the sensor used for the ETB gauges needs to have a gap of approx 1-2 mm between it and the trigger wheel, too close or far away and the speedo will read incorrectly.
Oz
Thanks Oz, I will do the test that you're suggesting, putting the back end on stands and simply see what the gauge is reading at different speeds.
It hit me that the prop shaft and output shafts obviously are not rotating at the same speed due to the ratio in the diff, so simply copying the amount of teeth from the GKN trigger wheel to a new home made wheel to put on the prop won't do the trick...
/Stefan
It hit me that the prop shaft and output shafts obviously are not rotating at the same speed due to the ratio in the diff, so simply copying the amount of teeth from the GKN trigger wheel to a new home made wheel to put on the prop won't do the trick...
/Stefan
Hi All,
Just picking up on this thread for a slightly different reason - the clock. In this case on my 1992 Pre-cat.
This is my clock, which has stopped working and so I've been searching for a replacement or repair, which ultimately has led me to Gavin at Caerbont Automotive Instruments - whose been really helpful.
However this in turn led me to see that the clock bezel doesn't match the rest of the Warner instruments and indeed doesn't sport the TVR logo. I've looked at some other photos on line and what I thought had been a cheap substitute of the original clock now looks to be quite common place.
So now I'm somewhat confused and have two questions:
-Is this the only clock fitted to pre-cat Griffiths (mines a late pre cat)?
- If there was another clock fitted what does it look like? (Now I can see it is different it does look a little odd, but maybe I could accept it as just another little quirky part of the car and grow to love it!)
Just picking up on this thread for a slightly different reason - the clock. In this case on my 1992 Pre-cat.
This is my clock, which has stopped working and so I've been searching for a replacement or repair, which ultimately has led me to Gavin at Caerbont Automotive Instruments - whose been really helpful.
However this in turn led me to see that the clock bezel doesn't match the rest of the Warner instruments and indeed doesn't sport the TVR logo. I've looked at some other photos on line and what I thought had been a cheap substitute of the original clock now looks to be quite common place.
So now I'm somewhat confused and have two questions:
-Is this the only clock fitted to pre-cat Griffiths (mines a late pre cat)?
- If there was another clock fitted what does it look like? (Now I can see it is different it does look a little odd, but maybe I could accept it as just another little quirky part of the car and grow to love it!)
Gizze said:
Hi All,
So now I'm somewhat confused and have two questions:
-Is this the only clock fitted to pre-cat Griffiths (mines a late pre cat)?
- If there was another clock fitted what does it look like? (Now I can see it is different it does look a little odd, but maybe I could accept it as just another little quirky part of the car and grow to love it!)
As far as I've seen yours is the same as all the other pre-cats (certainly the same as my Sept 92 car).So now I'm somewhat confused and have two questions:
-Is this the only clock fitted to pre-cat Griffiths (mines a late pre cat)?
- If there was another clock fitted what does it look like? (Now I can see it is different it does look a little odd, but maybe I could accept it as just another little quirky part of the car and grow to love it!)
The problem on my clock is the bezel has started to rust (bezels on Stewart Warners are aluminium) and it's thin steel so quite difficult to refurb without damaging it.
I think you should grow to love it - especially the ridiculously loud ticking!
Simon
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