Worth saving my Griff?
Discussion
I have owned a 1992 4.0 precat Griff in Cooper green with magnolia half hide for 20 years. The car has been one of my most treasured material posessions but over the past two years I was unable to use it due to ankle surgery and being fairly immobile over a long period. It also ended up living outside for the first time in its life and suffering cosmetically due to a water leak that nobody could trace. Armed with a modest redundancy cheque and back driving again after a couple of terrible years with health I decided to send her to APM Automotive who are very local to me for restoration.
I've just had a call from Andy there to say that the cost of restoration may exceed the value of the car (a good precat being worth around £15k)
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires
New battery
New fuel pump
Poss new fuel lines
Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis
It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc
Two new tyres
Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
New veneer dash required.
So the news is really upsetting and I need to try and think what to do next. Andy has indicated that he doesn't really have the time to set aside to get this work done in a reasonable timeframe either and so I'm curious what those of you in my position would do and where you would go from here...
I have struggled through all sorts of health and financial crises to hang on to this car and the thought of letting it go for spares or repair is very sad...
saxon
I've just had a call from Andy there to say that the cost of restoration may exceed the value of the car (a good precat being worth around £15k)
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires
New battery
New fuel pump
Poss new fuel lines
Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis
It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc
Two new tyres
Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
New veneer dash required.
So the news is really upsetting and I need to try and think what to do next. Andy has indicated that he doesn't really have the time to set aside to get this work done in a reasonable timeframe either and so I'm curious what those of you in my position would do and where you would go from here...
I have struggled through all sorts of health and financial crises to hang on to this car and the thought of letting it go for spares or repair is very sad...
saxon
Sorry to hear of your travails, must be gut wrenching seeing that symbol on top of all ths issues you have had. Early Griffs are particularly special and worth saving in light of what they represent in TVR's history. The US 25-year rule I suspect will bounce up prices to some extent from next year but I can't see them ever going down. Sounds like its only a "write-off" at retail labour contribution. Seems to me like a project requiring a labour of love many on PH would thrive on. If you really can't do the work yourself, I would suggest finding someone local to you with the time and skills to do it and negotiate "access rights" within a sale.
saxon said:
I have owned a 1992 4.0 precat Griff in Cooper green with magnolia half hide for 20 years. The car has been one of my most treasured material posessions but over the past two years I was unable to use it due to ankle surgery and being fairly immobile over a long period. It also ended up living outside for the first time in its life and suffering cosmetically due to a water leak that nobody could trace. Armed with a modest redundancy cheque and back driving again after a couple of terrible years with health I decided to send her to APM Automotive who are very local to me for restoration.
I've just had a call from Andy there to say that the cost of restoration may exceed the value of the car (a good precat being worth around £15k)
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires
New battery
New fuel pump
Poss new fuel lines
Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis
It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc
Two new tyres
Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
New veneer dash required.
So the news is really upsetting and I need to try and think what to do next. Andy has indicated that he doesn't really have the time to set aside to get this work done in a reasonable timeframe either and so I'm curious what those of you in my position would do and where you would go from here...
I have struggled through all sorts of health and financial crises to hang on to this car and the thought of letting it go for spares or repair is very sad...
saxon
IF you've struggled this long to keep the car this long you must work round the issues so I think you need to prioritise here.I've just had a call from Andy there to say that the cost of restoration may exceed the value of the car (a good precat being worth around £15k)
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires
New battery
New fuel pump
Poss new fuel lines
Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis
It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc
Two new tyres
Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
New veneer dash required.
So the news is really upsetting and I need to try and think what to do next. Andy has indicated that he doesn't really have the time to set aside to get this work done in a reasonable timeframe either and so I'm curious what those of you in my position would do and where you would go from here...
I have struggled through all sorts of health and financial crises to hang on to this car and the thought of letting it go for spares or repair is very sad...
saxon
Do this as a rolling project with 'essentials' first followe by cosmetic as and when.
So initially I'd do the outriggers without a body lift, it can be done succewssfully without lifting but obviously a good checkover with the car on the ramps first to ensure no excessive rust.
Removing the engine to do a the coolant flush sounds a bit extreme I've heard of that being done in situ so I'd investigate that.
Then replacement of thw essentials like the battery, starter, fuel lines coolant pipes and radiator etc.
Paintwise if you can't afford a respray then get it spayed with the peel off paint in the meantime, considerably cheaper and will look good until you can afford a full respray.
Trim is aagin something you can work round and carpet sets are not overly expensive from people like D&C Trim in Blackpool so again see what can be done on price.
Just sit and think abot how you can sort this before you panic and think you have to sell.
www.matt-pack.co.uk
V8 GRF said:
IF you've struggled this long to keep the car this long you must work round the issues so I think you need to prioritise here.
Do this as a rolling project with 'essentials' first followe by cosmetic as and when.
So initially I'd do the outriggers without a body lift, it can be done succewssfully without lifting but obviously a good checkover with the car on the ramps first to ensure no excessive rust.
Removing the engine to do a the coolant flush sounds a bit extreme I've heard of that being done in situ so I'd investigate that.
Then replacement of thw essentials like the battery, starter, fuel lines coolant pipes and radiator etc.
Paintwise if you can't afford a respray then get it spayed with the peel off paint in the meantime, considerably cheaper and will look good until you can afford a full respray.
Trim is aagin something you can work round and carpet sets are not overly expensive from people like D&C Trim in Blackpool so again see what can be done on price.
Just sit and think abot how you can sort this before you panic and think you have to sell.
www.matt-pack.co.uk
This is good advice. Get the MoT/safety/general making it work related stuff done, an engine flush (I think engine out is excessive for this too) and then see how you go. Some of it will be DIYable, things like trim may well clean up and be usable for now at least. It doesn't all need doing right now and the thing doesn't have to look like a new one for you to enjoy using it.Do this as a rolling project with 'essentials' first followe by cosmetic as and when.
So initially I'd do the outriggers without a body lift, it can be done succewssfully without lifting but obviously a good checkover with the car on the ramps first to ensure no excessive rust.
Removing the engine to do a the coolant flush sounds a bit extreme I've heard of that being done in situ so I'd investigate that.
Then replacement of thw essentials like the battery, starter, fuel lines coolant pipes and radiator etc.
Paintwise if you can't afford a respray then get it spayed with the peel off paint in the meantime, considerably cheaper and will look good until you can afford a full respray.
Trim is aagin something you can work round and carpet sets are not overly expensive from people like D&C Trim in Blackpool so again see what can be done on price.
Just sit and think abot how you can sort this before you panic and think you have to sell.
www.matt-pack.co.uk
Thanks guys,
Just spoken to Central TVR and thinking this might be the way to go - seemed very helpful and familiar with the issues as well as having the manpower and resources to do it all as a one stop shop...
To be honest I knew I was in for say £10k and can afford that but it was a bit of a shock to hear I might have to write it off as beyond economic repair.
I really appreciate your supportive posts and I think you're right - this is a car and a relationship worth saving! I never planned to sell the car as it makes me feel alive and excited even when I just look at it never mind driving it!
Any experiences with Central TVR would be welcome either on here or via PM.
Thanks again,
Saxon
Just spoken to Central TVR and thinking this might be the way to go - seemed very helpful and familiar with the issues as well as having the manpower and resources to do it all as a one stop shop...
To be honest I knew I was in for say £10k and can afford that but it was a bit of a shock to hear I might have to write it off as beyond economic repair.
I really appreciate your supportive posts and I think you're right - this is a car and a relationship worth saving! I never planned to sell the car as it makes me feel alive and excited even when I just look at it never mind driving it!
Any experiences with Central TVR would be welcome either on here or via PM.
Thanks again,
Saxon
Rolling restoration is the way forward here as V8GRF has pointed out. You might even be able to get the outriggers and other bits done to get an MOT on it for around 5k. Paint I would definitely leave until last, the paint on mine has microblisters, chips etc but of a shame but as soon as you get in and turn the key it doesn't matter.
If you say you have struggled to keep hold of her so far and have managed to don't give up now. Is a good Precat really only 15k???
I have s suspicion heritage TVR values will go up quite a bit once new TVR start production depending on their success. So keep it even if just in storage.
If you say you have struggled to keep hold of her so far and have managed to don't give up now. Is a good Precat really only 15k???
I have s suspicion heritage TVR values will go up quite a bit once new TVR start production depending on their success. So keep it even if just in storage.
Keep it. You'll regret selling, that's for sure. Looking at your profile pic it was once in good condition, with crossspokes too.
As Matt mentioned above, the values are creeping up making repairs viable. There're lots of things you can do yourself to help mitigate costs.
The number 1 thing to get done is get it running & with outriggers replaced.
Or, playing devils' advocate, sell it now as a project for someone to renovate. There are people always looking.
As Matt mentioned above, the values are creeping up making repairs viable. There're lots of things you can do yourself to help mitigate costs.
The number 1 thing to get done is get it running & with outriggers replaced.
Or, playing devils' advocate, sell it now as a project for someone to renovate. There are people always looking.
saxon said:
Thanks guys,
Just spoken to Central TVR and thinking this might be the way to go - seemed very helpful and familiar with the issues as well as having the manpower and resources to do it all as a one stop shop...
To be honest I knew I was in for say £10k and can afford that but it was a bit of a shock to hear I might have to write it off as beyond economic repair.
I really appreciate your supportive posts and I think you're right - this is a car and a relationship worth saving! I never planned to sell the car as it makes me feel alive and excited even when I just look at it never mind driving it!
Any experiences with Central TVR would be welcome either on here or via PM.
Thanks again,
Saxon
My only concern would be is that if one company can do the full refurb for about 15k, how can another company do it for nearly a third less of the price? How is this achievable?Just spoken to Central TVR and thinking this might be the way to go - seemed very helpful and familiar with the issues as well as having the manpower and resources to do it all as a one stop shop...
To be honest I knew I was in for say £10k and can afford that but it was a bit of a shock to hear I might have to write it off as beyond economic repair.
I really appreciate your supportive posts and I think you're right - this is a car and a relationship worth saving! I never planned to sell the car as it makes me feel alive and excited even when I just look at it never mind driving it!
Any experiences with Central TVR would be welcome either on here or via PM.
Thanks again,
Saxon
Hmmmm.... (anyone feel free to copy/paste amend the list if you think I'm way off...)
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires:
£80 New battery
£100 New fuel pump
£150 Poss new fuel lines
£1800 Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis (Probably cheaper if you can find some people to help do a body lift and get a good local welder to fit one of the outrigger kits).
£500 It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc (surely just a new radiator and a thorough flush through?)
£200 Two new tyres
£(quite a lot - but this could wait...) Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
£1200 (drivers seat, window surround, doors and carpet) Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
£300 New veneer dash required.
£4330 - (seems a bit more like it...)
You might even be able to save a lot on the interior - takes some photos and send to http://www.furnitureclinic.co.uk/ - I've used their kits before and they get pretty amazing results. Could just need new carpet and a restore kit, so from £1200 to £600.
The outrigger kits are around £600 - with some help and the hire of a good local welder for a weekend - maybe a drop from £1800 to £800-900?
I think with some shopping around and a bit of help - you could do it for under £3k???
In short from a preliminary inspection the car requires:
£80 New battery
£100 New fuel pump
£150 Poss new fuel lines
£1800 Chassis outrigger replacement and probably shot blasting and recoating of rest of chassis - he's not got it on a ramp yet to check state of rest of chassis (Probably cheaper if you can find some people to help do a body lift and get a good local welder to fit one of the outrigger kits).
£500 It looks like some of the coolant has crystallised and that will require engine to be taken out and high pressure flushed with poss new radiator etc (surely just a new radiator and a thorough flush through?)
£200 Two new tyres
£(quite a lot - but this could wait...) Many (but not all) of the body panels have suffered bubbling of the lacquer in places so extensive respray work required
£1200 (drivers seat, window surround, doors and carpet) Pretty much a full interior retrim required although personally I could live with just getting the drivers seats, window surrounding ambla and ambla on the doors replaced plus a bit of green Wilton behind driver's seat.
£300 New veneer dash required.
£4330 - (seems a bit more like it...)
You might even be able to save a lot on the interior - takes some photos and send to http://www.furnitureclinic.co.uk/ - I've used their kits before and they get pretty amazing results. Could just need new carpet and a restore kit, so from £1200 to £600.
The outrigger kits are around £600 - with some help and the hire of a good local welder for a weekend - maybe a drop from £1800 to £800-900?
I think with some shopping around and a bit of help - you could do it for under £3k???
Saxon excellent advice from fellow PH members. I too have a pre cat and have owned for a long time. I had exactly the same issues as you discribed and I completed the works as and when I could afford to do so, outriggers, clutch, shocks, brakes hoses and discs, new hood, carpets, walnut dash. Still have the interior to renew and finally a respray. Taken me years but couldn't sell the Griff. Go the same route and keep your Griff it will be worth it. Regular updates on here are always welcome by other PH' ers. Cheers
JT
JT
rolling restoration seems to be the way to, and the SAPM price doesn't seem unreasonable -given not really wanting to do it premium! - (assuming worst cases), assuming everything done at once to their high standard
The big question is, is the main chassis?
if OK, get the outriggers done, and everything to get it running/MOT and just take it from there (and do the paint last)
Some of the early Griffs may be disappearing of to the USA soon, not many will go (I hope,) but there are probably less than 500-550 4.0/4.3/4.5 1991-1992 early 93 cars - (before the 500) cars left. So I will only expect prices to drift upwards.
The big question is, is the main chassis?
if OK, get the outriggers done, and everything to get it running/MOT and just take it from there (and do the paint last)
Some of the early Griffs may be disappearing of to the USA soon, not many will go (I hope,) but there are probably less than 500-550 4.0/4.3/4.5 1991-1992 early 93 cars - (before the 500) cars left. So I will only expect prices to drift upwards.
Edited by BJWoods on Monday 16th May 22:10
David Beer said:
My 99 500 Iam in the same boat. It was fully working and 23 k miles and zero miles since rebuild. Do I spend money on it or get rid? Just not been on the road for maybe 6 years.
A sorted car, with that age/mileage is being advertise for over £32k
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
or a "nut and bolt" restoration advertised for £36k
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Mine required coolant flush as previous owners had left standing without antifreeze for a while, couple of good flushes and the rad recored.
Topcats never even thought of taking engine out - flushed loads of sludge & new thermostat, service with all fluids replaced, goes like an absolute scalded cat!!
Had a bit of wiring done, speedo recalibrated, suspension adjusted, other bits and pieces - came to about 2k from memory
Then add VAT....... Sigh
I'd suggest a flush in situ, possibly new or recored rad...... Get it running then have a think about next steps - you'll feel better when it runs again, small steps
Topcats never even thought of taking engine out - flushed loads of sludge & new thermostat, service with all fluids replaced, goes like an absolute scalded cat!!
Had a bit of wiring done, speedo recalibrated, suspension adjusted, other bits and pieces - came to about 2k from memory
Then add VAT....... Sigh
I'd suggest a flush in situ, possibly new or recored rad...... Get it running then have a think about next steps - you'll feel better when it runs again, small steps
Cant be that bad surely after 2 years? Our 500 lived outside for 5 years and didn't deteriorate. Anyway, I'd do what you need to to get it running (tyres, battery, fuel lines, engine flush and check) and take it for an MoT as they'll give it a decent inspection and go from there.
I cant seen the main chassis being that bad so get the outriggers done and maybe do a body off in 3-5 years.
I've seen some rough looking cars (my precat included) but interior and respray are things that arent critical at this stage and can be done later, once you've sorted everything else.
Do you know any local Griff owners that could come and give you a second opinion which should ease your fears? Must be a fair few local to you in Surrey.
FFG
I cant seen the main chassis being that bad so get the outriggers done and maybe do a body off in 3-5 years.
I've seen some rough looking cars (my precat included) but interior and respray are things that arent critical at this stage and can be done later, once you've sorted everything else.
Do you know any local Griff owners that could come and give you a second opinion which should ease your fears? Must be a fair few local to you in Surrey.
FFG
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