BREMEBO BRAKES
Discussion
Hi,
I'm just about to fit the E38 Brembo Brake upgrade to my car and was wondering what pads to fit, the car will be mainly fast road. It seems a bit of a waste to just use the existing pads (and they might be contaminated from the breakers yard! Was thinking about DS2500 but they are not cheap and am a bit worried they might promote a brake balance problem with the rears (my car is a 430 1993 so i'm guessing it's not got the larger rear brakes as fitted to some of the later 500's?).
Was also thinking of upgrading the rear pads to keep the balance or even going for the later 500 set-up, but know F'all about this and the possible costs/implications????
Any help appreciated.
Thanks Andy
I'm just about to fit the E38 Brembo Brake upgrade to my car and was wondering what pads to fit, the car will be mainly fast road. It seems a bit of a waste to just use the existing pads (and they might be contaminated from the breakers yard! Was thinking about DS2500 but they are not cheap and am a bit worried they might promote a brake balance problem with the rears (my car is a 430 1993 so i'm guessing it's not got the larger rear brakes as fitted to some of the later 500's?).
Was also thinking of upgrading the rear pads to keep the balance or even going for the later 500 set-up, but know F'all about this and the possible costs/implications????
Any help appreciated.
Thanks Andy
I've got the Brembo E 38 324 mm front brake upgrade on my Chimaera. I went for the standard Brembo branded road going pads to fit the 7 series BMW 1999-2001
Considering they stop a much heavier car in the BMW I decided they'd cope with the Chim.
They do a very good job and the car has smooth progressive brakes at all times. Stop the car effortlessly. excellent.
And there pretty inexpensive
Considering they stop a much heavier car in the BMW I decided they'd cope with the Chim.
They do a very good job and the car has smooth progressive brakes at all times. Stop the car effortlessly. excellent.
And there pretty inexpensive
Thanks Simon
I decided it was a big set up change, the discs and pads are both Brembo so will heat up as designed and they do feel beautifully matched.
I'd advise using this and maybe some 3M tape on the back of the pads to help against squeal.
You are likely to get some squeal early on but just persist, it took a good 600 miles for mine to really bed in. I did loads of brake tests too.
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
I decided it was a big set up change, the discs and pads are both Brembo so will heat up as designed and they do feel beautifully matched.
I'd advise using this and maybe some 3M tape on the back of the pads to help against squeal.
You are likely to get some squeal early on but just persist, it took a good 600 miles for mine to really bed in. I did loads of brake tests too.
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
ClassiChimi said:
Thanks Simon
I decided it was a big set up change, the discs and pads are both Brembo so will heat up as designed and they do feel beautifully matched.
I'd advise using this and maybe some 3M tape on the back of the pads to help against squeal.
You are likely to get some squeal early on but just persist, it took a good 600 miles for mine to really bed in. I did loads of brake tests too.
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
Yeh got your previous advice on the back burner already thanks Alun I decided it was a big set up change, the discs and pads are both Brembo so will heat up as designed and they do feel beautifully matched.
I'd advise using this and maybe some 3M tape on the back of the pads to help against squeal.
You are likely to get some squeal early on but just persist, it took a good 600 miles for mine to really bed in. I did loads of brake tests too.
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
they will probably go on this winter after the ECU revamp use that Mintex lube on all my pad & disc and pad renewals already was never impressed with copper-slip results generally short lived results 
I've noticed a number of Lotus Esperit I've seen recently have what looks like the very same Brembo brake upgrade, confirmation if ever confirmation was needed.
I was also at a very funkie motor cycle shop recently and so many bikes use Brembo, lovely brakes.
The calipers are just good at doing there job of offering equal pressure on the pad surfaces, the discs and pads do the rest which is why I thought I was being conservative going with the Road pads, for all but very spirited trcackday driving they seem perfect.
You'll find these pads offer progressive braking directly related to the brake pressure applied and feel the same cold as hot, work instantly and takes you to a new level of braking excellence. A form of brilliance.
Worth every penny.
I was also at a very funkie motor cycle shop recently and so many bikes use Brembo, lovely brakes.
The calipers are just good at doing there job of offering equal pressure on the pad surfaces, the discs and pads do the rest which is why I thought I was being conservative going with the Road pads, for all but very spirited trcackday driving they seem perfect.
You'll find these pads offer progressive braking directly related to the brake pressure applied and feel the same cold as hot, work instantly and takes you to a new level of braking excellence. A form of brilliance.
Worth every penny.
ClassiChimi said:
Thanks Simon
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
Hi ClassiChimi,I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
Can you elaborate on the Shim, are these to locate the caliper more centrally on the disc, i.e. to fit between the caliper mount and the bracket? or some place else??? Also where are these obtainable from, just the usual washer/nut wholesalers??
Thanks
SeiW500 said:
ClassiChimi said:
Thanks Simon
I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
Hi ClassiChimi,I'm sure your gemmed up but you might need some 0.5 mm shims to better centre calipers to the discs.
Enjoy
Can you elaborate on the Shim, are these to locate the caliper more centrally on the disc, i.e. to fit between the caliper mount and the bracket? or some place else??? Also where are these obtainable from, just the usual washer/nut wholesalers??
Thanks
More than one washer can cause a shearing effect on the bolt which could end badly, it's not worth it.
Shim behind break pads.l have stainless ones behind mine to centralise my pads to the disc, and they also stop break squeal .
I was warned off shim washers by a well respected brake expert who I recruited to inspect my conversion. First of all I wanted his opinion on my calliper centralisation, he carefully inspected and gave the installation his full approval saying the centralisation was more than within tolerance.
The next exercise was to identify why I was getting slight pulsing through the brake pedal, I couldn't track it down myself and it even had the brake expert foxed for a good while. Everything was stripped and inspected, the discs skimmed using a very sophisticated bit of kit, the hubs meticulously cleaned, the inner wheel flanges cleaned and draw filed, and everything properly checked and re-checked for run-out with a DTI.
After all this the DTI proved my disk & hub run-out were perfect but with the calliper, disc, spacer and wheel back refitted my brake guy still wasn't 100% happy with the feel as he rotated the whole assembly by hand, more draw filing of my inner wheel flanges ensued, everything must have been pulled down and reassembled five times but we both remained baffled.
Then the brake expert found the problem, by process of elimination and having proved zero run-out in the hub and disk the spotlight of attention fell on the spacers. Finally he found the problem, close inspection of the spacer revealed there was actually a tiny incompatibility between the disc hat & the wheel spacer. Even with the wheel firmly clamping the spacer to the disc and hub the spacer didn't seat absolutely perfectly, my brake guy discovered the spacer didn't quite receive the outer lip of the disk hat absolutely perfectly, we're only talking a few thou and even when only lightly hand fitting the spacer to the disc & hub it felt just fine, but the truth is the tiny interference issue was just enough to cause the problem.
The spacers were spun on a lathe to make them fractionally deeper, fitting them back on the disc you could feel and hear the very slight difference as they slapped in place with that reassuring sound you only get when two flat metal faces meet perfectly. As I say, before the spacers were machined the fit felt just fine to me and clearly the brake expert didn't initially pick up on it either, but after the machining you could definitely hear & feel the difference.
To be honest it was such a tiny difference I questioned if it really was the issue and was going to solve the slight pulsing I could feel through the brake pedal, the brake expert explained even a small interference issue with the spacer to disc hat fit will cause a minute alignment issue, as the wheel is bolted up to the disc the spacer is compressed between it & the disc hat and then pushed against the hub. Under compression the interference between the spacer & disc hat fractionally pulls things out of alignment which of course is amplified by the distance between the hub centre and the calliper thus causing the very mild but annoying pulsing I could feel at slow braking speeds.
A test drive confirmed my man had found the issue, not only was the slight pulsing gone but the brakes generally felt better in every respect. This is a truly excellent brake upgrade but if you don't have wheels that offer sufficient offset for the calliper to clear the rim you are forced to use spacers. I always felt spacers were a the Achilles heel of the conversion but they are a necessary evil, lets be frank the spacers are only there to solve a problem. An engineer starting with a clean sheet of paper would never specify spacers; they would design the wheel, hub and calliper to work properly together without the need to add what is effectively just a thick packing shim (a wheel spacer).
Ask yourself.. "How many car manufacturers fit wheel spacers?"
Spacers also vary enormously in quality, they also need to be selected very carefully to ensure they work perfectly on the car in every respect, finally the selected spacer fit should be studied very very closely to ensure absolutely zero and fractional interference exists where it's inner face meets the very outer lip of the disc hat. Of course you can't actually see these faces where they meet because they're on the inside when you bring everything together, so you're left with feel & sound, or I guess you could use plastigauge or engineers blue to reveal the true fit or any unwanted clearance issues.
To anyone contemplating this excellent and cost effective brake upgrade I strongly recommend treating your spacer fit with suspicion, make no assumptions and check everything absolutely meticulously.
The next exercise was to identify why I was getting slight pulsing through the brake pedal, I couldn't track it down myself and it even had the brake expert foxed for a good while. Everything was stripped and inspected, the discs skimmed using a very sophisticated bit of kit, the hubs meticulously cleaned, the inner wheel flanges cleaned and draw filed, and everything properly checked and re-checked for run-out with a DTI.
After all this the DTI proved my disk & hub run-out were perfect but with the calliper, disc, spacer and wheel back refitted my brake guy still wasn't 100% happy with the feel as he rotated the whole assembly by hand, more draw filing of my inner wheel flanges ensued, everything must have been pulled down and reassembled five times but we both remained baffled.
Then the brake expert found the problem, by process of elimination and having proved zero run-out in the hub and disk the spotlight of attention fell on the spacers. Finally he found the problem, close inspection of the spacer revealed there was actually a tiny incompatibility between the disc hat & the wheel spacer. Even with the wheel firmly clamping the spacer to the disc and hub the spacer didn't seat absolutely perfectly, my brake guy discovered the spacer didn't quite receive the outer lip of the disk hat absolutely perfectly, we're only talking a few thou and even when only lightly hand fitting the spacer to the disc & hub it felt just fine, but the truth is the tiny interference issue was just enough to cause the problem.
The spacers were spun on a lathe to make them fractionally deeper, fitting them back on the disc you could feel and hear the very slight difference as they slapped in place with that reassuring sound you only get when two flat metal faces meet perfectly. As I say, before the spacers were machined the fit felt just fine to me and clearly the brake expert didn't initially pick up on it either, but after the machining you could definitely hear & feel the difference.
To be honest it was such a tiny difference I questioned if it really was the issue and was going to solve the slight pulsing I could feel through the brake pedal, the brake expert explained even a small interference issue with the spacer to disc hat fit will cause a minute alignment issue, as the wheel is bolted up to the disc the spacer is compressed between it & the disc hat and then pushed against the hub. Under compression the interference between the spacer & disc hat fractionally pulls things out of alignment which of course is amplified by the distance between the hub centre and the calliper thus causing the very mild but annoying pulsing I could feel at slow braking speeds.
A test drive confirmed my man had found the issue, not only was the slight pulsing gone but the brakes generally felt better in every respect. This is a truly excellent brake upgrade but if you don't have wheels that offer sufficient offset for the calliper to clear the rim you are forced to use spacers. I always felt spacers were a the Achilles heel of the conversion but they are a necessary evil, lets be frank the spacers are only there to solve a problem. An engineer starting with a clean sheet of paper would never specify spacers; they would design the wheel, hub and calliper to work properly together without the need to add what is effectively just a thick packing shim (a wheel spacer).
Ask yourself.. "How many car manufacturers fit wheel spacers?"
Spacers also vary enormously in quality, they also need to be selected very carefully to ensure they work perfectly on the car in every respect, finally the selected spacer fit should be studied very very closely to ensure absolutely zero and fractional interference exists where it's inner face meets the very outer lip of the disc hat. Of course you can't actually see these faces where they meet because they're on the inside when you bring everything together, so you're left with feel & sound, or I guess you could use plastigauge or engineers blue to reveal the true fit or any unwanted clearance issues.
To anyone contemplating this excellent and cost effective brake upgrade I strongly recommend treating your spacer fit with suspicion, make no assumptions and check everything absolutely meticulously.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 19th November 09:43
thebraketester said:
They were brembo bought from a respected supplier. Genuine. YMMV but that's what happened to mine. (Brembo hp sport pads)
Right, so not the Brembo road pads we've clearly been recommending on this post then.The truth is in all but the most demanding track specific situations a proper road pad is always going to be superior, way cheaper too. And don't assume more expensive is better, track pads always come with downsides, lets be honest if they really were so fantastic car manufacturers would fit them as original equipment. Track pads are essentially a one trick pony, they do one very specific thing a bit better than road pads but at the cost of everything else. This is why I clearly state and recommend the use of genuine OEM quality Brembo road pads. Select genuine Brembo branded pads for an E38 BMW from a well known & reputable company and you should get the right thing, but when they arrive do also check for the hologram seal, its there for a reason! Brembo use this seal to show their valued customers they're buying a genuine Brembo product, check that hologram seal carefully as its hard to fake properly and is the very reason why hologram label technology is still chosen to this day.
Saying all that aand knowing now you are showing failed race pads I would still question if the mighty and world renowned brake giant would sell a brake compound that crumbled like that, even knowing such race pads would always come with a list of disclaimers such as "NOT FOR ROAD USE" I feel something isn't right here or at lest we're not getting the full story?
Such failures are just not in keeping with Brembo's unquestioned reputation for OEM quality. As we all know Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW and many many other high end car makers all choose Brembo brakes and have done for years which should give people complete confidence their products are of the highest quality.
Before you present such failures on a forum and condemn what is probably the most respected brake manufacturer in the world I would first make it very clear to everyone they are race pads not the road pads people are recommending here, its also only fair to be completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when the failure occurred. I would then be inclined to send those failed pads to Brembo for testing, Brembo will be happy to test the compound in their lab to establish if they are indeed a genuine Brembo product or not.
If Brembo come back to you with confirmation they are genuine Brembo pads you either have a brake issue, you didn't correctly bed the pads in initially, you massively over cooked them on a track day... or you know better than Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW ect ect and all the highly experienced brake engineers at Brembo.
But either way, just to present a shocking image of what we now know are race pads to scare people off the highly renowned and well respected Brembo brand without either having the pads tested or being completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when they failed is at best very misleading, and at worst highly inflammatory.
ChimpOnGas said:
Right, so not the Brembo road pads we've clearly been recommending on this post then.
The truth is in all but the most demanding track specific situations a proper road pad is always going to be superior, way cheaper too. And don't assume more expensive is better, track pads always come with downsides, lets be honest if they really were so fantastic car manufacturers would fit them as original equipment. Track pads are essentially a one trick pony, they do one very specific thing a bit better than road pads but at the cost of everything else. This is why I clearly state and recommend the use of genuine OEM quality Brembo road pads. Select genuine Brembo branded pads for an E38 BMW from a well known & reputable company and you should get the right thing, but when they arrive do also check for the hologram seal, its there for a reason! Brembo use this seal to show their valued customers they're buying a genuine Brembo product, check that hologram seal carefully as its hard to fake properly and is the very reason why hologram label technology is still chosen to this day.
Saying all that aand knowing now you are showing failed race pads I would still question if the mighty and world renowned brake giant would sell a brake compound that crumbled like that, even knowing such race pads would always come with a list of disclaimers such as "NOT FOR ROAD USE" I feel something isn't right here or at lest we're not getting the full story?
Such failures are just not in keeping with Brembo's unquestioned reputation for OEM quality. As we all know Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW and many many other high end car makers all choose Brembo brakes and have done for years which should give people complete confidence their products are of the highest quality.
Before you present such failures on a forum and condemn what is probably the most respected brake manufacturer in the world I would first make it very clear to everyone they are race pads not the road pads people are recommending here, its also only fair to be completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when the failure occurred. I would then be inclined to send those failed pads to Brembo for testing, Brembo will be happy to test the compound in their lab to establish if they are indeed a genuine Brembo product or not.
If Brembo come back to you with confirmation they are genuine Brembo pads you either have a brake issue, you didn't correctly bed the pads in initially, you massively over cooked them on a track day... or you know better than Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW ect ect and all the highly experienced brake engineers at Brembo.
But either way, just to present a shocking image of what we now know are race pads to scare people off the highly renowned and well respected Brembo brand without either having the pads tested or being completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when they failed is at best very misleading, and at worst highly inflammatory.
You're not employed by Brembo are you? The truth is in all but the most demanding track specific situations a proper road pad is always going to be superior, way cheaper too. And don't assume more expensive is better, track pads always come with downsides, lets be honest if they really were so fantastic car manufacturers would fit them as original equipment. Track pads are essentially a one trick pony, they do one very specific thing a bit better than road pads but at the cost of everything else. This is why I clearly state and recommend the use of genuine OEM quality Brembo road pads. Select genuine Brembo branded pads for an E38 BMW from a well known & reputable company and you should get the right thing, but when they arrive do also check for the hologram seal, its there for a reason! Brembo use this seal to show their valued customers they're buying a genuine Brembo product, check that hologram seal carefully as its hard to fake properly and is the very reason why hologram label technology is still chosen to this day.
Saying all that aand knowing now you are showing failed race pads I would still question if the mighty and world renowned brake giant would sell a brake compound that crumbled like that, even knowing such race pads would always come with a list of disclaimers such as "NOT FOR ROAD USE" I feel something isn't right here or at lest we're not getting the full story?
Such failures are just not in keeping with Brembo's unquestioned reputation for OEM quality. As we all know Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW and many many other high end car makers all choose Brembo brakes and have done for years which should give people complete confidence their products are of the highest quality.
Before you present such failures on a forum and condemn what is probably the most respected brake manufacturer in the world I would first make it very clear to everyone they are race pads not the road pads people are recommending here, its also only fair to be completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when the failure occurred. I would then be inclined to send those failed pads to Brembo for testing, Brembo will be happy to test the compound in their lab to establish if they are indeed a genuine Brembo product or not.
If Brembo come back to you with confirmation they are genuine Brembo pads you either have a brake issue, you didn't correctly bed the pads in initially, you massively over cooked them on a track day... or you know better than Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW ect ect and all the highly experienced brake engineers at Brembo.
But either way, just to present a shocking image of what we now know are race pads to scare people off the highly renowned and well respected Brembo brand without either having the pads tested or being completely honest with everyone about how you were using the car when they failed is at best very misleading, and at worst highly inflammatory.
GlynMo said:
You're not employed by Brembo are you?
No, just presenting genuine facts to ensure my TVR mates can make a proper reasoned decision when selecting the brand of pads they use.This is the polar opposite to trying to scare people off a highly respected brand with a shock image while not revealing the full story.
Just trying to do the right thing really, not necessarily the right thing for Brembo you understand as I have no connection with the company whatsoever, but doing the right thing by my fellow TVR enthusiasts
Dave
The full story is that they were on the back of my car. They fell to bits. The end. Bedded in properly, genuine pads, no track days.
I have no ulterior motive other than to display what happened to my brembo pads. I am not a brembo hater, I have brembo calipers on my car.
I have no ulterior motive other than to display what happened to my brembo pads. I am not a brembo hater, I have brembo calipers on my car.
Edited by thebraketester on Saturday 19th November 11:26
ChimpOnGas said:
thebraketester said:
I didn't have much luck with brembo pads
People should know there are a lot of fake Brembo pads on the market, the above failure is not something associated with the super well respected brake giant that is Brembo.Edited by portzi on Saturday 19th November 13:24
SeiW500 said:
Hi ClassiChimi,
Can you elaborate on the Shim, are these to locate the caliper more centrally on the disc, i.e. to fit between the caliper mount and the bracket? or some place else??? Also where are these obtainable from, just the usual washer/nut wholesalers??
Thanks
Hi seiW500 Can you elaborate on the Shim, are these to locate the caliper more centrally on the disc, i.e. to fit between the caliper mount and the bracket? or some place else??? Also where are these obtainable from, just the usual washer/nut wholesalers??
Thanks
I don't use wheel spacers as discussed above as I use 17 in front wheels with a 7.5 offset.
Sometimes the lugs on the original hubs are not very square, I elected to bolt my new caliper brackets directly to the hub,
Then fitted the calipers to the new bracket with the disc in place, the calipers handily have 4 lugs so when you've tightened them to the correct torque you can then use the lugs situated on the callipers and a feeler gauge to gauge the centralisation of the caliper to disk. I used two wheel nuts to tighten the wheel to the hub to keep the disc in place.
Once you've measured the calipers position I then used 0.5 mm shims of which you'll only need one on each bolt to bring the caliper out a fraction and so more centrally to the disc.
I used the shims when connecting the caliper to the bracket not the bracket to hub as they sit better and square.
I went for two shims on one side to get it very accurate but decided one felt better, and it does give less squeal as Portzi says.
You don't have to be overly accurate and depending on the cast of your hubs you may not need shims at all as if it's say 1mm closer to the disc on one side, as soon as you bleed them and press the pedal they will just even up using the caliper Pistons, I was more concearned they would appear twisted which would need the odd shim but it just required one 0.5 mm shim on all 4 bolts to give me a reasonable centre. Drilling out the hubs and using a half depth nut behind it when putting the larger bolts through is good idea and pinches it together very nicely. I used plenty of tightlock.
Edited by ClassiChimi on Saturday 19th November 16:39
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