Oil for T5 and BTR?... what's the thoughts these days?

[TVR Beaver]

Whilst I have the car in the air I may as well change the oil in the diff and gearbox... may be done about 10K but it's not expensive.
I tried to get hold of John at readmans to see what he suggested, but he's not about?

It's ATF for the box... any type recomended?.... have seen some people using gear oil now.. not sure if thats a good thing??

And the diff... looking at the leftover bottle i have, looks like I'v got Castrol SAF-XJ 75w-140 in there now.. but I have two bottles of Castrol Syntrax LSD 75w-140 on the shelf... can't remember why I didn't use it? both API GL5 Synthetic?.... any suggestions here also?...

Cheers...

[bluezeeland]

Hi John, bit of 'oil-post-fatigue' it seems, so allow me to try to answer...

Following is on a LT77 and GKN, but at the end of the day its just a bunch of gears spinning around.....

For the diff, bin the 'started' bottle, but do use the 75/140, that what I've got, the only one which will prevent leaking from the seals (one changed for new, mind) I've tried several 'lighter' ones to no avail (using Liquimoly 75/140 now)

For the g/b; both on ATF and 75/90 the box crunched from 1-2 and 3-4........now on Liquimoly 90W and added graphite/zinc (didn't try this expensive whateveritscalled > was reported to me as crunching too)

Hope this helps, a bit..

Frank

[TVR Beaver]

Cheers Frank.. thanks for that.. but I thought the BTR and T5 used diffo stuff to the LT and GKN?.. the BTR has to be LSD oil (which this is)... but does JR say Millers is best or somthing? what ever it is posted on here, I think its hard to get?... will have a search later maybe... trying to get the fill plug out first at least I'm doing it this way around and not the drain plug first like someone I know

[bluezeeland]

Thing is, we love our 'mistresses',hence the numerous posts regarding oil/tyres/brakes/what have you.........truth is....any correct grade oil of a reputable make will do.

I've settled for the above grade/make, car performs well with them (goes also for tyres/brakes/what have you)

Moral; don't worry too much > try some.....(at least you know where the filler plugs are and how the get them out )

[TVR Beaver]

Very true, and it depends why someone says something is preferred... and what actual testing has been done?.. I’m no oil expert although Millers is just down the road from me so plenty there....

But it’s more driven by being lazy these days...and not wanting to do any repairs... If I can make it last longer by spending a bit of £, then it makes sense to me....

Anyway, will get the plugs out first... If I can’t do that, then talking what to put in becomes pointless

[cjb44]

TVR Beaver said:

Very true, and it depends why someone says something is preferred... and what actual testing has been done?.. I’m no oil expert although Millers is just down the road from me so plenty there....

But it’s more driven by being lazy these days...and not wanting to do any repairs... If I can make it last longer by spending a bit of £, then it makes sense to me....

Anyway, will get the plugs out first... If I can’t do that, then talking what to put in becomes pointless

You will never go wrong with Millers, very helpful people as well, used by a lot of the racing fraternity.

[Pete Mac]

TVR Beaver said:

.... have seen some people using gear oil now.. not sure if thats a good thing??

Be careful on this one, quote:

"WARNING: Using gear oil or motor oil in a T-5 with the composite lined blocker rings found in the World Class T-5's will destroy the blocker ring linings over a period of a few months rendering those synchronizers useless"

http://pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1...

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/TRSM-T5-0510-R1_173.p...

See page 2-1 from Tremec themselves

It sounds like you have a World Class T5 if you have a BTR diff (later model Griff). I have also heard that the thicker gear oil does not reach the needle roller bearings used in the World Class.

I have no first hand experience but with these warnings I use ATF, however I have seen some write ups saying they use synthetic oils but it looks like whatever else you shouldn't use ordinary gearbox oil.

Pete

[ukdj]

JR recommends Royal Purple ATF for the box & Morris Modexol 75w/140 LSD oil for the diff if that helps

[TVR Beaver]

Great... Thanks for that all...
Is there only 1 grade of that ATF.. Looks like there is MAX... 1320 and 12320? Will try track it down...

Edited by TVR Beaver on Saturday 7th January 18:05

Edited by TVR Beaver on Saturday 7th January 18:08

[Discopotatoes]

I've got a CTS big toothed gear set and was recommended by them to use ss75w/90,which was a compromise of sufficient gear and bearing lube, i asked why i couldn't use fully synthetic and was told it was thicker and wouldn't lube the bearings properly.
so if you have a standard t5 then stick with the recommended ATF

[TVR Beaver]

Order some Royal Purple Max ATF... should do the job... will use the Castrol I have for the diff.... cheers ...

[Sardonicus]

Pete Mac said:

Be careful on this one, quote:

"WARNING: Using gear oil or motor oil in a T-5 with the composite lined blocker rings found in the World Class T-5's will destroy the blocker ring linings over a period of a few months rendering those synchronizers useless"

http://pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/1...

http://www.tremec.com/anexos/TRSM-T5-0510-R1_173.p...

See page 2-1 from Tremec themselves

It sounds like you have a World Class T5 if you have a BTR diff (later model Griff). I have also heard that the thicker gear oil does not reach the needle roller bearings used in the World Class.

I have no first hand experience but with these warnings I use ATF, however I have seen some write ups saying they use synthetic oils but it looks like whatever else you shouldn't use ordinary gearbox oil.

Pete

Agreed on the T5 ATF and fibre synchro rings this is one pulled from a 130k T5 thats always run on ATF as you can see perfect, really not worth chancing other non ATF/Dexron lubes IMO if you shed that material your gearbox will crunch/baulk gears like hell not a cheap repair I can assure you

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 9th January 14:45

[Jhonno]

If your box has been rebuilt though, the fibre rings are NLA iirc, the replacement doesn't need ATF - Hence Discopotatoes box using proper gearbox oil.

[Sardonicus]

Jhonno said:

If your box has been rebuilt though, the fibre rings are NLA iirc, the replacement doesn't need ATF - Hence Discopotatoes box using proper gearbox oil.

Thats interesting seeing as the above is the only need for ATF gives you a lot more choice of more modern specific manual trans oils

[Pete Mac]

Jhonno said:

If your box has been rebuilt though, the fibre rings are NLA iirc, the replacement doesn't need ATF - Hence Discopotatoes box using proper gearbox oil.

I knew I had read somewhere about the problems of lubricating the World Class needle rollers with ordinary gear oil due to the narrow oil ways:

http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?t=3127

As in all these forums there are many opinions so all I can say is be careful before you decide to change recommended lubricants.

If you do decide to do it then keep us informed.

Pete

[TVR Beaver]

I've bought Royal Purple ATF but have been reading the thread on the Chim forum... they are talking about running in new boxes on mineral ATF... but Chimpongas does say using fully synthetic ATF even in a fully run in box may be too slippy for the syncro's and will make 5th crunch if rushed?....
anyone had this at all?
The RP Max ATF is a full synth?....

[ukkid35]

Jhonno said:

If your box has been rebuilt though, the fibre rings are NLA iirc, the replacement doesn't need ATF - Hence Discopotatoes box using proper gearbox oil.

Bought this rebuild kit last year (but it remains boxed up)

http://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.php?route=produc...

Is it obvious whether the synchro rings are fibre?

[ChimpOnGas]

TVR Beaver said:

I've bought Royal Purple ATF but have been reading the thread on the Chim forum... they are talking about running in new boxes on mineral ATF... but Chimpongas does say using fully synthetic ATF even in a fully run in box may be too slippy for the syncro's and will make 5th crunch if rushed?....
anyone had this at all?
The RP Max ATF is a full synth?....

I didn't get on with fully synth ATF, too slippery, I also tried one of the modern fully synthetic manual trans fluids (Penrite Syn), while I expect it had more to do with the dreadful dragging Helix clutch I did end up with a burnt 5th gear synchro ring.

For complete clarity the 5th gear synchro ring is just an old school grooved brass job so its not actually one of the friction paper lined rings. I genuinely think the dreadful heavy and dragging Helix clutch was the culprit, but from the failure point forward I decided to play it safe and to stop trying to be clever, I simply went back to good old mineral ATF and with a new AP clutch fitted I've had zero box problems since.

The T5 box was designed to use mineral ATF and is proven to be very long lived (including the paper lined rings) if you use mineral ATF, so why would you use anything else? I've proven a different oil to that specified by BW doesn't offer any advantages at all, stepping away from the original oil type only costs more and introduces potential risks for no discernible benefit.

My advice is stick to good old mineral ATF!