Serpentine Throttle Pot availability
Discussion
OK I've final found the source of my problems, both the original and my replacement throttle pots are dodgy. However, looking at the usual places I can see no serpentine throttle pots available anymore. All options look like they need the wiring loom connector to be replaced.
Anyone know of any other options or do I have to get personnel with some wire cutters and the original loom?
Rob
Anyone know of any other options or do I have to get personnel with some wire cutters and the original loom?
Rob
Have you seen this one? http://www.actproducts.co.uk/product/sp002-rover-v...
The act solution looks interesting so had a look to see what Colvern pots are about and a search came up with www.jenvey.co.uk which had what could be an identical throttle pot with what looked like the same fixings for £58 plus vat. There are 2 pdfs for the item showing the pot fixings, size etc so someone knowledgeable might be able to say if it is the same thing. If so it would be an excellent result as the original pots were expensive for what they were.
Jenvey might do more than one so the one I looked at was ref as TP1 TPS - Colvern CP17 but there are others on their site so I have asked them if one fits the serpentine engine.
Jim
Jenvey might do more than one so the one I looked at was ref as TP1 TPS - Colvern CP17 but there are others on their site so I have asked them if one fits the serpentine engine.
Jim
Edited by jimed on Wednesday 22 February 09:40
The "conversion" type TPS from ACT are just to fit another type of a cheap carbon film resistance like the original parts are, as a electronic part not worth a single Pound! I've found a solution with a hall sensor, it's a contact less and nonwearing solution with much more exact values to the ECU. I can do it with an old style pre-serp as well as with the later serp-style connector to fit the wiring loom. All you need is an additional +12V ign and earth, but no problem with some Basic Knowledge of car electric and the instruction sheet coming with the part.
My cars (Griffith 430 and 400SE) are equipped with this high Quality part since two year without any problems.
Any questions please ask.
Kind regards
Axel
My cars (Griffith 430 and 400SE) are equipped with this high Quality part since two year without any problems.
Any questions please ask.
Kind regards
Axel
TVRVixenV8 said:
The "conversion" type TPS from ACT are just to fit another type of a cheap carbon film resistance like the original parts are, as a electronic part not worth a single Pound! I've found a solution with a hall sensor, it's a contact less and nonwearing solution with much more exact values to the ECU. I can do it with an old style pre-serp as well as with the later serp-style connector to fit the wiring loom. All you need is an additional +12V ign and earth, but no problem with some Basic Knowledge of car electric and the instruction sheet coming with the part.
My cars (Griffith 430 and 400SE) are equipped with this high Quality part since two year without any problems.
Any questions please ask.
Kind regards
Axel
Very interesting My cars (Griffith 430 and 400SE) are equipped with this high Quality part since two year without any problems.
Any questions please ask.
Kind regards
Axel
I have to say I'm a big fan of simple proven and readily available off the shelf components from mass production and proven OEM component manufactures like Bosch, this thinking is shared by Lloyd Specialist Developments and is another key reason I chose their Canems engine management installation.
For example if one of my coil packs goes down I know I can get a replacement Ford Ka coil pack pretty much everywhere, it's the same with Bosch idle valve that has been used on huge number of cars from Audis to Volvos and everything in between, millions of them.
Unfortunately my throttle position sensor remains the old Lucas one and that troubles me, saying that it remains in perfect working order but replacing it as we know could present an issue at some point.
I appreciate a hall type sensor has some advantages but in my experience a traditional TPS works perfectly well enough and offers a good life expectancy. Don't take this the wrong way but the electronic voltage stabiliser unit looks like it adds complexity and on something like a TPS where reliability is everything I would prefer the simplicity of a readily available off the shelf OEM Bosch TPS all day long.
This is just my point of view you understand.
For example if one of my coil packs goes down I know I can get a replacement Ford Ka coil pack pretty much everywhere, it's the same with Bosch idle valve that has been used on huge number of cars from Audis to Volvos and everything in between, millions of them.
Unfortunately my throttle position sensor remains the old Lucas one and that troubles me, saying that it remains in perfect working order but replacing it as we know could present an issue at some point.
I appreciate a hall type sensor has some advantages but in my experience a traditional TPS works perfectly well enough and offers a good life expectancy. Don't take this the wrong way but the electronic voltage stabiliser unit looks like it adds complexity and on something like a TPS where reliability is everything I would prefer the simplicity of a readily available off the shelf OEM Bosch TPS all day long.
This is just my point of view you understand.
jimed said:
The act solution looks interesting so had a look to see what Colvern pots are about and a search came up with www.jenvey.co.uk which had what could be an identical throttle pot with what looked like the same fixings for £58 plus vat. There are 2 pdfs for the item showing the pot fixings, size etc so someone knowledgeable might be able to say if it is the same thing. If so it would be an excellent result as the original pots were expensive for what they were.
Jenvey might do more than one so the one I looked at was ref as TP1 TPS - Colvern CP17 but there are others on their site so I have asked them if one fits the serpentine engine.
I'm not as knowledgeable with the hardware as MarkBlitz but I'll have a go.Jenvey might do more than one so the one I looked at was ref as TP1 TPS - Colvern CP17 but there are others on their site so I have asked them if one fits the serpentine engine.
From Racetech’s picture below I recognise its a Colvern CP17 and not the Jenvey TP11.
http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/car-parts/electric...
I can also see from the CP17 spec sheet it has the same total resistance range (5K) as the standard 14CUX throttle POT, but the 94 degrees effective angle is slightly too wide and therefore may not hit the 14CUX’s max throttle of 97% in RoverGauge. However I don’t believe this will be an issue for Giff 500s and Chimmys as long as it reaches +86% and +92% for Precats as they have LR’s higher setting, this is the point when full load enrichment is applied and also forces open loop.
https://www.jenvey.co.uk/images/stories/virtuemart...
Furthermore, the 14CUX throttle circuitry is adaptable for closed throttle so you could gain a few more max percentage if you set it up for max percent and check it still auto corrects back to 0 when closed, I would suspect this is how ACT has set up there throttle base plate.
If anyone has the ACT throttle POT and RoverGauge please can you confirm the max throttle Percentage.
To be fair to Tim at ACT he has produced a precision machined base plate with a press fit bearing and a bespoke adapter spindle plus has the support of Mark Adams to check it works correctly and Tim has to recover his development costs.
At least we now have an aftermarket alternative.
ChimpOnGas said:
I have to say I'm a big fan of simple proven and readily available off the shelf components from mass production and proven OEM component manufactures like Bosch, this thinking is shared by Lloyd Specialist Developments and is another key reason I chose their Canems engine management installation.
DaveI couldn’t agree more with you and your Canems will not limit your choice of traditional throttle pots unlike the 14CUX. I personally have a Penny+Giles halls effect throttle sensor like Alex’s because its fully programmable and therefore can be set up to match the exact requirements of the old 14CUX.
I’m not happy I have to use a 12V power stabilizer but it does the job and its as cheap as chips plus the halls throttle sensor was cheaper than a 14CUX pot.
This picture reveals the real reason why I have to use a programmable throttle pot with the 14CUX and someone of your caliber will understand the technical reasons why.
The MGTF one can be made to fit without much bother, but the resistance sweep per degree is wrong. Basically you need a small amount of resistance at throttle shut, just to show the TP is connected, plus it needs to be near 0 ohms at WOT / 90' sweep to give near 5 volts, but the MG one is about 115' sweep so you end up with too high shut voltage or too low WOT voltage. An easy work around is to supply the Pot from the 12 volt supply on the injector rail though a resistor or regulator to say 7 volts at 115' or 5v at 90', but the risk is if you over twist the pot you could shove 7 volts into the 14CUX and I don't know if the A-D in the ECU would take it. Having said that Ive seen 12v on a lambda input that should be about 1.5 volts with no harm. You could use a Zener diode to crowbar the output for safety. I did think I might do a kit of parts to do this, but its not very elegant with extra wires and regulators and the true failure rate of the TPS means the market is not a large one to do the development of a kit.
Yep fitted and working.
I had to fit the pot the opposite way round from their diagrams as the direction of rotation was wrong but that was no problem.
To adapt the harness to the new connector supplied I used a section of wire cut from an old T-pot to make an adaptor cable from the harness to the new connector but have since found that both connectors are AMP and are still made so can be ordered easily enough, albeit in multiples of 10 where I found them.
It comes with no instructions on how to make connector. The crimps can be done with pliers but are better done with a crimp tool. I used MOLEX one from work as it is a pretty standard type.
In the back of the connector are rubber seals. You can push the crimps though these but I was not able to fully engage the crimps like this. I had to pull the rubbers up the wire, then push the crimps home (they are almost flush with the end of the plastic housing when correct, then lubricate the cable to enable me to slide them back.
I had to fit the pot the opposite way round from their diagrams as the direction of rotation was wrong but that was no problem.
To adapt the harness to the new connector supplied I used a section of wire cut from an old T-pot to make an adaptor cable from the harness to the new connector but have since found that both connectors are AMP and are still made so can be ordered easily enough, albeit in multiples of 10 where I found them.
It comes with no instructions on how to make connector. The crimps can be done with pliers but are better done with a crimp tool. I used MOLEX one from work as it is a pretty standard type.
In the back of the connector are rubber seals. You can push the crimps though these but I was not able to fully engage the crimps like this. I had to pull the rubbers up the wire, then push the crimps home (they are almost flush with the end of the plastic housing when correct, then lubricate the cable to enable me to slide them back.
Fellas,
I've just ordered ( last Monday) an upgraded Serp throttle pot from Tvr parts. I was chasing the delivery and chatted with one of their guys about the connection and he says there is an adaptor to change from round to oval if required in the pack. The basic serp TP you have chop and swap the plug. Don't know if its of any interest but I'll post again if the info given is correct when it turns up...unless anyone has ordered one of these before?
Bloody pricey though for what it is.
I've just ordered ( last Monday) an upgraded Serp throttle pot from Tvr parts. I was chasing the delivery and chatted with one of their guys about the connection and he says there is an adaptor to change from round to oval if required in the pack. The basic serp TP you have chop and swap the plug. Don't know if its of any interest but I'll post again if the info given is correct when it turns up...unless anyone has ordered one of these before?
Bloody pricey though for what it is.
blitzracing said:
The MGTF one can be made to fit without much bother, but the resistance sweep per degree is wrong. Basically you need a small amount of resistance at throttle shut, just to show the TP is connected, plus it needs to be near 0 ohms at WOT / 90' sweep to give near 5 volts, but the MG one is about 115' sweep so you end up with too high shut voltage or too low WOT voltage. An easy work around is to supply the Pot from the 12 volt supply on the injector rail though a resistor or regulator to say 7 volts at 115' or 5v at 90', but the risk is if you over twist the pot you could shove 7 volts into the 14CUX and I don't know if the A-D in the ECU would take it. Having said that Ive seen 12v on a lambda input that should be about 1.5 volts with no harm. You could use a Zener diode to crowbar the output for safety. I did think I might do a kit of parts to do this, but its not very elegant with extra wires and regulators and the true failure rate of the TPS means the market is not a large one to do the development of a kit.
Have you (or anyone else) considered using a Penny & Giles or Vishay Hall effect sensor?Looks like either company have options that could work.
Steve
PhilH42 said:
Fellas,
I've just ordered ( last Monday) an upgraded Serp throttle pot from Tvr parts. I was chasing the delivery and chatted with one of their guys about the connection and he says there is an adaptor to change from round to oval if required in the pack. The basic serp TP you have chop and swap the plug. Don't know if its of any interest but I'll post again if the info given is correct when it turns up...unless anyone has ordered one of these before?
Bloody pricey though for what it is.
From the pictures I think this is similar to the ACT one and they want you to chop the car harness. There is no need to do this as the oval connectors are still made by AMP (or as far as I can tell they are, not actually bought any to be 100% certain), or you can do what I did and make an adaptor cable from the old throttle pot (but only if you know the wires aren't broken.I've just ordered ( last Monday) an upgraded Serp throttle pot from Tvr parts. I was chasing the delivery and chatted with one of their guys about the connection and he says there is an adaptor to change from round to oval if required in the pack. The basic serp TP you have chop and swap the plug. Don't know if its of any interest but I'll post again if the info given is correct when it turns up...unless anyone has ordered one of these before?
Bloody pricey though for what it is.
Personally I'm not about to chop the harness unless I have to. It is also easier to make a good job of the connector on the bench than in the engine bay.
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