er...not starting

[bouffy]

following on from simon's 'enough is enough' thread, this seems appropriate..!

clambered into 93 griff 500 last night. Turn immobiliser off, turn key in ignition, fuel pump whirring, noise stops, turn key in ignition...nothing. Not a sausage. Locked the car, unlocked it, tried entire process again...nothing. It's definitely not a flat battery, so what could it be?

Any ideas - guessing it'll be a fuse? relay? starter motor?

Please bear in mind that I am an incompetent fool under the bonnet, and your suggestions will be forwarded to the 'very very nice man' from the AA tonight when i get home.

I nearly cried. It was such a nice evening, and I was looking forward to a good thrash around Beds. Doh! Hadn't driven it for 8/9 days when i took it for a 200 mile round trip - and it was driving perfectly.

>>> Edited by bouffy on Tuesday 8th July 12:31

[lake]

I have had this happen to my car.

Mine was/is the starter motor. The quick fix is get the wheel wrench and give the back of the starter a tap. If you look though the exhaust manifold on the drivers side, you can just see it. The wrench is just long enough to reach though the manifold.

Good luck.

>> Edited by lake on Tuesday 8th July 11:37

[bouffy]

Thanks. Will I be needing a new starter motor? Or is a gentle tap sufficient? If I DO need one, what sort of money am I looking at? Anyone?

[lake]

The tap is a tempory (get me moving) fix. The reason these fail is the heat. The poor things just get cooked.

If it is the starter then a new one is probably on the cards. I am not exactly sure of the cost as mine was replaced under warranty, but I think a reconditioned one is about £120-£140. However I was handed a card the other day by a reconditioning company that claimed they could recon a starter for £45, but my guess is that this is just going to be a solenoid replacement.

Just do some searches though the archives on here, there has been many threads on this subject.

Hope all goes well and you are back on the road soon.

Ian

[beano500]

Commiserations.

Coil or ignition amp?

And are you sure about the battery - once drained, even just by leaving an interior light on overnight, I have noticed that a Griff battery won't shift a flea...

[rhodri_harris]

It could just about be a flat battery, I had a very similar thing with my S3, i.e. it had enaough charge to power the ancillaries but not enough to engage the starter. Easy test is to turn on the headlights and try to start, if the lights dim out completely, its probably the battery.

Hope that helps

Rod

Edited to say: Damn, too late

>> Edited by rhodri_harris on Tuesday 8th July 12:00

[bouffy]

Good man Ian - thanks very much for your help. Let's hope I can get it moving tonight...

Guy

[walking hormone]

Had the same thing with mine - turns out it was the alarm not disengaging properly. Try on and off a few times with the alarm fob (standard I.T. solution)

[bouffy]

mmm...thanks guys.

Have tried to start it with lights on - lights stayed bright, but there was nothing happening at all when I turned the key...

Also locked and unlocked the car a few times, but seemed to have no effect - will try again tonight though. I have been slightly puzzled by how the alarm / immobiliser works with the roof off anyway, so maybe i'm being a bit of a numpty and it is still immobilised (it's currently sitting topless in m'garage). I have an aftermarket Toad alarm, which seems to have a different sequence of button presses to the standard meta alarm that i had on my chimaera. I've had a couple of issues with this in the past - it goes off for no reason etc. Maybe it's that? Am thinking about changing the alarm anyway, as I'm not sure if it's working as it should do.

edited to correct some of my bunch of arse typing

>> Edited by bouffy on Tuesday 8th July 12:10

[jj_work]

I would say that it sounds just like my 4.0 Chim about 3 weeks ago.. See if the car will bump start, or rock it in gear, to see if it free's up the started motor.. If so then you know it’s not the immobiliser (although I’m no expert).

I had the starter motor replaced on mine 3 weeks ago (with a new one not re-con) and it cost me £200. I live in MK, so mail me if you want to know where mine was done. It only took them 1 1/2 hours to complete. Mine is perfect again now..
jj

[siwes]

Hi ho
same on mine forgot to mention it
it was the starter motor bad earths RAC cleaned all the cables up and bingo its just a pain getting under the car to do the job , best way is to do about 70 mph up a curb and flip the damm thing thats what I felt like doing anyway.
good luck
simon

[shpub]

jj_work said:

I would say that it sounds just like my 4.0 Chim about 3 weeks ago.. See if the car will bump start, or rock it in gear, to see if it free's up the started motor.. If so then you know it’s not the immobiliser (although I’m no expert). I had the starter motor replaced on mine 3 weeks ago (with a new one not re-con) and it cost me £200. I live in MK, so mail me if you want to know where mine was done. It only took them 1 1/2 hours to complete. Mine is perfect again now.. jj

Sorry that is wrong. The immobiliser has seperate circuits so it is possible to have everything work except the starter motor connection. It is usually the solenoid which gums up/dries and makes no contact and therefore no starter motor current. Good idea to fit a heat shield and getting a recon can be the cheapest way forward. Tower View did mine for around £125 but it was a couple of years ago.

[bouffy]

thanks gang. Have printed this all off, and will spend a few grubby hours inside the bonnet tonight. Will let you know I get on.

Guy

[Ballistic Banana]

bouffy said:

thanks gang. Have printed this all off, and will spend a few grubby hours inside the bonnet tonight. Will let you know I get on. Guy

Shame i am playing Golf tonight or i would of lent a hand, let me now if u want a hand tomorrow evening thats of course if your still in Beds.

BB

[Ballistic Banana]

Forgot to add check the starter motor fuse as this may have gone, its inline on a Large red Wire underneath normally Cable tied to the main Chassis, sort off behind the drivers side front wheel.

BB

[d1bble]

had same problem...Get the starter motor checked first..turned out it was an alarm problem...same symptoms though....


....all is not lost

[shpub]

Ballistic Banana said:

Forgot to add check the starter motor fuse as this may have gone, its inline on a Large red Wire underneath normally Cable tied to the main Chassis, sort off behind the drivers side front wheel. BB

It's not a starter motor fuse... it is the alternator one. It protects the battery from a duff alterntaor and vice versa. If it goes the battery goes flat and you get flat battery syndrome as it is known...

[No 1]

I used to have exactly the same symptons, allbeit on a Peugoet 205. There were a variety of fixes, tapping the starter, rocking the car with it in gear, turning the key while rocking the in gear (difficult on your own this one) etc.

I tried cleaning the contacts, cleaing the starter motor, replacing the starter, allsorts. In the end I sent it to an auto electric specialists who diagnosed it as being a fault with the immobiliser. I by-passed that and all was well.

[bouffy]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys - it really is a pleasure to be a member of this forum. So much advice / friendship / helpful comments etc. Ballistic B - very kind of you to offer heading over to see the purple monster - yes I'm still in Bedford but not for long.

Ok, here goes - an update for you. Battery was indeed fairly flat, although lights etc working well. AA jump started it, but battery was not taking any charge - he suggested that I changed the battery (programme about the RAC anyone?!). When the bonnet was up and we left the car idling along, revs kept dropping from 1200 - 700ish and back again - symptom of no juice in the battery?

He gave it a little bit of welly - revs up to 3000 or so - and some smoke started coming out of the driver's side of the engine. I had a nose around, and could see a little oil leaking from the rocker cover...checked the oil level and it was just above the bottom marker on the dipstick, so filled her up with more. I have now put in approx 4 litres in 1500ish miles - now I know these puppies like a drink, but surely this is over the norm?

Mr AA didn't like the look of the smoke and he also said it sounded "lumpy", although it sounded exactly as it always has done, and also how my Chim sounded IMO. He suggested I took it to the doctors, so he arranged for it to be picked up his morning and taken (gratis) to the specialist where I bought it from 4 months ago. I spoke to the guy there, and after a brief descrption of symptoms, he reckoned it actually wasn't too much of a problem...last words, famous...

After moving the car this morning, there was NO oil on the road at all, and there has never been any oil leakage on the garage floor (not from my car anyway), so maybe it only leaks under acceleration or when car is moving. Mmm...

Confused of Bedford.

PS It could be worse though - they had a new Tuscan in the garage this morning having it's engine out to look for some knocking noises. Nice colour though.

[Leadfoot]

bouffy said:

I have now put in approx 4 litres in 1500ish miles - now I know these puppies like a drink, but surely this is over the norm?

Thats rather a lot isn't it! Appx 1 ltr/1000 miles is probably the norm.