Griff Handling
Discussion
OK I know I'm going to sound like a dick for saying this..... but.....
I bought my Griff 500 a couple of months ago. Test drives merely confirmed that (1) it had a big engine, and (2) it felt light and responsive to drive. Mine had very old tyres, the rubber was exceedingly hard....
First track day with it last weekend (Mallory Park). Now I was expecting the Griff to be all torque and no handling, all grunt and no sophistication.
Well blow me away, it's completely shocked me again. Mine doesn't have any tricky upgrades, as far as I'm aware it's running on standard springs and dampers. I know for a fact it's well down on power as the ignition is definitely a tad random.
But the handling was pretty impressive. Those rock hard knackered old tyres ended up molten and wrapped over the sidewall of the left hand tyres. It was easy (and I'm no ace driver) to take Gerrard's in one big four wheel drift - very progressive and not snappy at all.
I will admit I'm used to mid or rear engined cars on track (993s, Elise, Noble) so perhaps the front engine is easier to control. But I was expecting a beast, and it was more of a ballerina.
Have I got a good'un then?? Perhaps I was expecting more aggro from a TVR, but this car is flabbergastingly good.
I bought my Griff 500 a couple of months ago. Test drives merely confirmed that (1) it had a big engine, and (2) it felt light and responsive to drive. Mine had very old tyres, the rubber was exceedingly hard....
First track day with it last weekend (Mallory Park). Now I was expecting the Griff to be all torque and no handling, all grunt and no sophistication.
Well blow me away, it's completely shocked me again. Mine doesn't have any tricky upgrades, as far as I'm aware it's running on standard springs and dampers. I know for a fact it's well down on power as the ignition is definitely a tad random.
But the handling was pretty impressive. Those rock hard knackered old tyres ended up molten and wrapped over the sidewall of the left hand tyres. It was easy (and I'm no ace driver) to take Gerrard's in one big four wheel drift - very progressive and not snappy at all.
I will admit I'm used to mid or rear engined cars on track (993s, Elise, Noble) so perhaps the front engine is easier to control. But I was expecting a beast, and it was more of a ballerina.
Have I got a good'un then?? Perhaps I was expecting more aggro from a TVR, but this car is flabbergastingly good.
simpo two said:
You wouldn't be Stig 2 by any chance?
Nope, I consider myself a very average driver. (and I'm assuming you meant a
there!!! 
) So presumably there are one of two reasons why I think it's really easy to throw around....
1) I'm very lucky and my Griff is the best one ever built...
2) When I said it was 'down on power' it's actually running on only 2 cylinders
I took my cousin out for a few laps and he reckoned it felt 'pretty mobile' but 'very progressive'.... and given that I didn't stack it, he felt reasonably safe
To be honest, it was my first visit to Mallory so I didn't really know the track (not that it's got lots of corners, of course)... I was told Gerrard's was meant to be taken flat at 100-odd mph. I simply didn't have the skill for that - I was going round in 4th at 95 mph. Still melted the tyres though.
had a wet track day last weekend and my 98 griff 500 was absolutely diabolical- I got lapped by every car on the track, even 30 year old Loti...
Then we fixed the tyre pressures! The car was much more progressive when letting go but was still a hell of a handful. It has Falken tyres on it (they were on when purchased 6 months ago)
I didn't get overtaken, but a much more professional driver who had a punt said in an ideal world the car would lose grip with all 4 wheels at once, progressively and controllably.....doesn't sound like my car!
The advice I've been given is to do the tests again on a dry track, and test with different tyres to see if it is the car.
Have you guys seen anything similar? Are damper settings likely to help?
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go back to the track for some more 'scientific' testing.
I'm not going to enjoy this at all!
Then we fixed the tyre pressures! The car was much more progressive when letting go but was still a hell of a handful. It has Falken tyres on it (they were on when purchased 6 months ago)
I didn't get overtaken, but a much more professional driver who had a punt said in an ideal world the car would lose grip with all 4 wheels at once, progressively and controllably.....doesn't sound like my car!
The advice I've been given is to do the tests again on a dry track, and test with different tyres to see if it is the car.
Have you guys seen anything similar? Are damper settings likely to help?
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go back to the track for some more 'scientific' testing.
I'm not going to enjoy this at all!
When I did the Snetterton day, the first go out in the morning was wet, the car was such a handful I didn’t really enjoy it much, by the next session the track had mostly dried, I couldn’t believe the difference, the car was excellent, having tried castle combe I found that though the chicanes the weight transfer caused by the body roll unsettled the car, on that type of track, stiffer suspension would have been good.
Leadfoot said:
It has Falken tyres on it (they were on when purchased 6 months ago)
Bin 'em, they're 5hite!
Ther are worse... They don't even decompose into good organic fertiliser....
[Contentious mode on...] Biggest factor affecting Griff handling is probably the driver...
[Contentious mode off...]
Completely agree with AdamC about tyre pressures. I thought that everything bad I'd heard about Griff handling in anything less than perfect conditions was true until I spent £4 on a tyre pressure gauge and found that my pressures were 2lb under spec (6 weeks after a service by the way). Much more progressive, much better in the wet etc. etc. Probably obvious to anyone who knows about these things.
Regarding the most important component, definitely average to mediocre in my case
.
Regarding the most important component, definitely average to mediocre in my case
. I bought a fancy tyre inflator thang with digital pressure gauge before I took it out on track. I have also heard that these digital pressure gauges are bloody inaccurate, so there you go....
I set the pressures to Mr Heath's advice in the 'bible'. And as to his comment re: driving style, I always try to drive really smoothly on track so I haven't had any aggro from being rough with the controls. I guess because it is heavy at parking speeds, people expect to have to put some grunt into throwing it around at higher speeds. You don't........
I set the pressures to Mr Heath's advice in the 'bible'. And as to his comment re: driving style, I always try to drive really smoothly on track so I haven't had any aggro from being rough with the controls. I guess because it is heavy at parking speeds, people expect to have to put some grunt into throwing it around at higher speeds. You don't........
Here's a question that's been bugging me for a while. As you set off on a trip, the tyres warm up and so does the air inside. That warm air must be exerting a greater pressure, so if you take the tyre pressures after a long run you'll get higher pressures than if the car was cold, I think.
So should I measure tyre pressures when cold ot hot? Cold seems logical, but then most of the time the car will be riding with warm tyres...
So should I measure tyre pressures when cold ot hot? Cold seems logical, but then most of the time the car will be riding with warm tyres...
set pressures when tyres are hot.
tyres will gain 6-9 psi (or so) if they are been well used on a track.
unless the suspension/geometry is crap in which case they will overheat anyway (bits of them or all of them!!)
so, assuming the cars ok, and it sounds like it is, do three or so laps building to a reasonable speed.
come in and check pressures.
reset, them go and do your stuff!
if getting quicker, check pressures again...reset.
etc etc.
you need to run at arond 2-3 psi over road settings due to the extra forces. monitor it and keep it there.
MANY PROBS ON TRACK ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE GAINING SPEED AND CONFIDENCE DURING THE DAY. AS THEY GET FASTER, THE CARS HANDLING DETERIORATES DUE TO RUNNING ON OVER INFLATED TYRES WHICH SPOIL THE CONTACT PATCH AND ADHEASION.
cheers
(hopefully not a granny/eggsucking thing going on here!)
by the way, sounds like your driving style is smooth , confident with a bit of experience. this SUITS the griff. You may jus be compatible.
they are bred from Tuscan racers!
tyres will gain 6-9 psi (or so) if they are been well used on a track.
unless the suspension/geometry is crap in which case they will overheat anyway (bits of them or all of them!!)
so, assuming the cars ok, and it sounds like it is, do three or so laps building to a reasonable speed.
come in and check pressures.
reset, them go and do your stuff!
if getting quicker, check pressures again...reset.
etc etc.
you need to run at arond 2-3 psi over road settings due to the extra forces. monitor it and keep it there.
MANY PROBS ON TRACK ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE GAINING SPEED AND CONFIDENCE DURING THE DAY. AS THEY GET FASTER, THE CARS HANDLING DETERIORATES DUE TO RUNNING ON OVER INFLATED TYRES WHICH SPOIL THE CONTACT PATCH AND ADHEASION.
cheers
(hopefully not a granny/eggsucking thing going on here!)
by the way, sounds like your driving style is smooth , confident with a bit of experience. this SUITS the griff. You may jus be compatible.
they are bred from Tuscan racers!
tvr4ever said:
During my last visit to the tyre shop they alligned the wheels and changed the air in the tyre with nitrogen. The pressure doesn't rise when the tyre heats up.
Fred
If so you have managed to disprove one of the fundamental gas laws. The pressure of a given mass of gas is directly proportional to its temperature if the volume remains constant. P/T = constant.
Neglecting any small change in the tyre size with temperature, as the tyre heats up the gas inside will heat up and the pressure will rise.
Ian
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