RE: PH Buying Guide: TVR Griffith
Discussion
andysgriff said:
Whatever the real power they can still be classed as very quick imho. In a straight line....
Which is why on the rolling chassis bit, I suggest a good suspension set-up (and new shocks) because, beleive it or not, these cars really can be made to handle well, even in the wet.Spa Francochapms, 2006:
I've never really understood why these motors were so difficult to tune for big but reliable horsepower numbers. Take a 500 and replace the crank, bearings, conrods, pistons, cylinder heads, valves, valve springs, injectors, camshaft, fuel pump and get it mapped - why can't these motors generate a reliable 420-450hp? Must be some inherent reason - can someone enlighten me?
R
R
daltonr said:
I've never really understood why these motors were so difficult to tune for big but reliable horsepower numbers. Take a 500 and replace the crank, bearings, conrods, pistons, cylinder heads, valves, valve springs, injectors, camshaft, fuel pump and get it mapped - why can't these motors generate a reliable 420-450hp? Must be some inherent reason - can someone enlighten me?
R
Strangled by the inability of the engine to breath well due to the head design.R
Wildcat heads sort that out I understand
http://www.roverv8engine.co.uk/index2.htm
daltonr said:
cylinder heads
Bingo. The whole architecture of the Rover V8 (nee Buick 215) was based on a capacity of 3.5 litres - for much bigger capacities GM already had the regular 'small block'. For what it was designed for, the flow capabilities were ample. Change the head castings for something like the Wildcat heads and the world is your oyster - but then you can practically re-engineer the whole induction (and probably exhaust) installation in a TVR...All this arguing about power misses the point - these cars are about acceleration and it's the torque curve that gives you that, not just the maximum power. And the Rover V8 (in any size) has enough torque to make the Earth spin the other way over a large range of revs - the torque curve is fairly flat from 2000rpm up to 5000+, so the car pulls like stink and keeps on doing it.
Put a Griff (or Chim) in 3rd at 50 and boot it, then watch almost everything on the road recede backwards like they're in reverse until you hit 100 and have to change up (mine's a 4.5 Chim, but the Griffs are similar)
And Chimaeras are not even a teensy, weensy bit gay, darlings.
Put a Griff (or Chim) in 3rd at 50 and boot it, then watch almost everything on the road recede backwards like they're in reverse until you hit 100 and have to change up (mine's a 4.5 Chim, but the Griffs are similar)
And Chimaeras are not even a teensy, weensy bit gay, darlings.
King Fisher said:
All this arguing about power misses the point - these cars are about acceleration and it's the torque curve that gives you that, not just the maximum power. And the Rover V8 (in any size) has enough torque to make the Earth spin the other way over a large range of revs - the torque curve is fairly flat from 2000rpm up to 5000+, so the car pulls like stink and keeps on doing it.
Put a Griff (or Chim) in 3rd at 50 and boot it, then watch almost everything on the road recede backwards like they're in reverse until you hit 100 and have to change up (mine's a 4.5 Chim, but the Griffs are similar)
And admittedly, Chimaeras are a bit more than a teensy, weensy bit gay darlings, but I don't think I could handle a Griff with its superior looks and performance.
EFA Put a Griff (or Chim) in 3rd at 50 and boot it, then watch almost everything on the road recede backwards like they're in reverse until you hit 100 and have to change up (mine's a 4.5 Chim, but the Griffs are similar)
And admittedly, Chimaeras are a bit more than a teensy, weensy bit gay darlings, but I don't think I could handle a Griff with its superior looks and performance.
manek said:
You have to factor in a few trackdays into ownership costs so you can learn how to handle it when it bites back. As they all do....
Not necessarily, at least the non-500 ones. My Intrax-fettled Chim has yet to put a wheel wrong and I don't hang about, really... At present it's got at least as much power as a very good std 500, too, but lacks the bad manners down low and brutality of the torque delivery a bit higher up.That, and if you are going to provoke the biting back part, make it an airfield day and make sure no one/ nothing is in your way... I don't see Chims and Griffs as track cars in se if only for the lack of rollover protection...
900T-R said:
Not necessarily, at least the non-500 ones. My Intrax-fettled Chim has yet to put a wheel wrong and I don't hang about, really... At present it's got at least as much power as a very good std 500, too, but lacks the bad manners down low and brutality of the torque delivery a bit higher up.
That, and if you are going to provoke the biting back part, make it an airfield day and make sure no one/ nothing is in your way... I don't see Chims and Griffs as track cars in se if only for the lack of rollover protection...
They will all bite back. Mine also had uprated suspension components - Ohlins etc - but even so, I recall an occasion when pressing on on a twisty, wet country road. All was fine until the road made an unexpected turn, in the middle of which was a pool of standing water. The back end went away...but I held it -- not because I'm a driving god (I'm not) but because I'd done enough track days in the Chim to know what it felt like, which gave me enough warning to act quickly and correctly.That, and if you are going to provoke the biting back part, make it an airfield day and make sure no one/ nothing is in your way... I don't see Chims and Griffs as track cars in se if only for the lack of rollover protection...
That's got nowt to do with 'bite back' - I've spun a 75 bhp Citroën ZX, twice and both times it was due to underestimating the potential hazards in a set of conditions. I maintain something like a Ride/Drive course - which would probably have taught not to 'press on' on a wet, unknown road - would be infinitely more useful.
Digga said:
Legend has it that when the Griffith 500 launched, it quickly rocketed to the #1 position in the death rates charts. Just after I picked up my first 4litre Griff (from Team Central, as was), another customer picked up his new Chimaera and never even made it home.
I have never owned another car that was so twitchy and unpredictable on a wet and twisty road as my Griff 500.And I am not some soft puff brought up on FWD cars.
In fact, it was considerably more difficult to drive than any of the hairy chested motorbikes that I have owned.
I know that they can be fettled to handle well, but I didn't have the patience to start experimenting with dampers etc and sold the car after only 4 months.
It was the biggest disappointment of my motoring life and I often wonder if I should have persevered. After all, the basic ingredients were all there. It just felt half finished.
Beautiful styling, inspired hood, lovely gearbox, great engine, magnificent noise, power and performance. Shame about the handling and the B&Q build quality.
Pat H said:
I have never owned another car that was so twitchy and unpredictable on a wet and twisty road as my Griff 500.
And I am not some soft puff brought up on FWD cars.
In fact, it was considerably more difficult to drive than any of the hairy chested motorbikes that I have owned.
I know that they can be fettled to handle well, but I didn't have the patience to start experimenting with dampers etc and sold the car after only 4 months.
It was the biggest disappointment of my motoring life and I often wonder if I should have persevered. After all, the basic ingredients were all there. It just felt half finished.
Beautiful styling, inspired hood, lovely gearbox, great engine, magnificent noise, power and performance. Shame about the handling and the B&Q build quality.
I ahd a 4.3 first and it was a bit more twitchey, chageing down, coming off the throttle - if you had been fdriving hard was a big no-no..And I am not some soft puff brought up on FWD cars.
In fact, it was considerably more difficult to drive than any of the hairy chested motorbikes that I have owned.
I know that they can be fettled to handle well, but I didn't have the patience to start experimenting with dampers etc and sold the car after only 4 months.
It was the biggest disappointment of my motoring life and I often wonder if I should have persevered. After all, the basic ingredients were all there. It just felt half finished.
Beautiful styling, inspired hood, lovely gearbox, great engine, magnificent noise, power and performance. Shame about the handling and the B&Q build quality.
That said very easy to relatively sort them out..
You'd be surprised (or maybe not
) about how many have the geometry out even out of the factory..it should be checked every service.
Mine is nearly 13 years old, new dampers (knackered anyway) geometry and correct tyre pressure made it a new car again, still got a short wheelbase rwd and lots of torque - for a lightish weight car though.
BJWoods said:
You'd be surprised (or maybe not ) about how many have the geometry out even out of the factory..
) about how many have the geometry out even out of the factory..
This must be the main cause of the enormous variability between TVRs of the same model. A 'feature' of standard Griff handling is that they start to feel progressively ragged and out of sorts when upping the pace on less than smooth roads. This lack of composure can be completely sorted with top notch suspension. However on smooth roads it should handle well (or at least not feel like a lethal weapon) out of the box. With 500s, the torque delivery of the engine can always catch out the unawares though. All the (4.x litre) Chimaeras I've sampled were easy to drive, mine was merely soft and vague on its original 106,000 mile old suspension and not alarming in any way (unless provoked, which Intrax' Henk Thuis did for assessment). One normally wouldn't drive it that way because it started to feel out of its depth long before...
The brand new Tuscan on 18" wheels that I drove in '04, however, was a twitchy b****r than never seemed to settle down at speed. Felt great on narrow lanes with low-speed corners, but not so good on motorways.
Edited by 900T-R on Saturday 23 April 18:21
No-one has mentioned 'The ultimate' 4.5BV Griff, rev'd and went like a b/stard...
I dont see the point of going higher in cc if it wont rev freely, and be strangled by a catalyst..
The early 5.0 did suffer from crank failure..
Or am i being a bias pre cat owner, with a genuine SEAC 4.5BV to be fitted soon ??????? HAPPY DAYS !!!
I dont see the point of going higher in cc if it wont rev freely, and be strangled by a catalyst..
The early 5.0 did suffer from crank failure..
Or am i being a bias pre cat owner, with a genuine SEAC 4.5BV to be fitted soon ??????? HAPPY DAYS !!!
Griff handles very well properly set up, any car will handle like a dog if has worn suspension components etc and is not properly set up.
My Griff handles well i drive fast and try to be a smooth as possible, try being the opeartive word as quinny will no doubt jump in with some crack about my rough appearance.
on a Tiv run out to Whitby drivers who tried to keep up with me on a greasy ( cow s
t wet twisty lane remarked on how well my Griff handled and its SC so get the suspension bits sorted and rite set up and they handle great.
My Griff handles well i drive fast and try to be a smooth as possible, try being the opeartive word as quinny will no doubt jump in with some crack about my rough appearance.
on a Tiv run out to Whitby drivers who tried to keep up with me on a greasy ( cow s
t wet twisty lane remarked on how well my Griff handled and its SC so get the suspension bits sorted and rite set up and they handle great.Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff