Range Rover Classic as a Daily Drive?

[v8s4me]

Is this a practical proposition? I’m looking for a car I can use every day so it has to be reliable and reasonably economical. I’m not looking for a concourse example but ideally one which has had all the major issues sorted out and be in very good condition. Good enough to take out business contacts etc without embarrassment and run between service intervals without tinkering at the weekends. I have a TVR and that’s my hobby, the RR will need to be my transport.

So, is this a realistic expectation? A little bit of research seems to indicate the 1994 – 1996 200TDi models with the LT77 ‘box are the ones to look at (I’d prefer a manual). How much should I expect to pay for a really good example? What mpg should I expect from one of these? Is there a Range Rover owners club or other forum I should be looking at? Your thoughts, comments and suggestions etc very welcome. Thanks in advance.

[paintman]

Couple of forums would be:
http://forum.lro.com/
http://www.rangerovers.net/

Any Range Rover Classic will be at least 17 years old & whilst they can be described as a big boys meccano set the rust proofing on them from new was effectively non-existent. Later ones, 1989 to end of production, seem to be worse on corrosion than the early ones. Whilst the outer panels are mainly birmabright - bonnet & tailgates are steel - the inner panels are all steel & corrosion can be a major issue. I own a 1986 V8EFi & welding is an annual thing - I do it all myself so cost is not an issue, just my time.
Parts, both mechanical & body, are readily available. Some pattern parts are rubbish - as you will realise from Land Rover forums!

I've owned mine since 1994 & it is my 'daily drive'.

[C Lee Farquar]

To be honest, unless you're very lucky, what 20 year old car is going to be reliable and not need fettling on a regular basis?

[paintman]

Excluding the bodywork, mine has gone quite happily on little more than regular routine servicing & replacement of service items as they wear. Major items have been an alternator, water pump & a radiator. Touch wood, engine, gearbox, transfer box etc have been fine.
As you say, the older the car the more likely you will have to replace components due to wear.

[DKL]

As a daily driver its possible but it needs to be very nice (read more pricey) or you need to be handy with the spanners.
The newer they are up to 95 the more electrically complex they get and my experience is that these are the niggly things that stop working. Usually they don't stop you using the car but are they might.
I use mine daily through the winter but I have others so on the odd occasion it doesn't go its not the end of the world.
Mine is a 4.2 on gas so is acceptably economical. Fast it is not and I gather the diesels are worse!

[300bhp/ton]

C Lee Farquar said:

To be honest, unless you're very lucky, what 20 year old car is going to be reliable and not need fettling on a regular basis?

I think that's a bit of a poor statement. Many people run and drive vehicles of 20 years old or more every day, many are not enthusiasts either, yet most cars can be perfectly usable at this age.

[300bhp/ton]

v8s4me said:

Is this a practical proposition? I’m looking for a car I can use every day so it has to be reliable and reasonably economical.

I think you need to define your expectations on 'reliable' and 'reasonably economical'.

I say this, as some people will have a very different understanding of what they mean.

Overall Land Rover's of this type are generally quite robust and are always fixable should they break. But they are more labour intensive than other cars, this means they have more frequent planned maintenance and many jobs, while easy to perform can be time consuming.

Land Rover's are also known for niggles. It would be rare to have one with nothing wrong with it, although chances what is wrong wouldn't be anything to stop you using it.

They all leak, oil out and often water in. But they did this when new and again should be anything to deter you.


In terms of economy, they are comparable to other vehicles of similar type and age. But do you have a figure in mind?

Manuals will be better on fuel than auto's. For a Tdi I would budget on 24-26mpg, although if driven gently can be 28-30mpg. But drive them hard and it'll be low 20's.

V8's will be in the teens 15mpg or so.

v8s4me said:

I’m not looking for a concourse example but ideally one which has had all the major issues sorted out and be in very good condition.

Range Rover prices seem all over the place at the moment. There are some true nutters paying massively over the odds for some. But you can still grab a bargain with some luck.

As said, pretty much every issue can be fixed on these. Rust is probably the worst thing to worry about. Although items like a rusty rear tailgate are easy fixes.

v8s4me said:

Good enough to take out business contacts etc without embarrassment and run between service intervals without tinkering at the weekends. I have a TVR and that’s my hobby, the RR will need to be my transport.

There is no reason why you can't run one daily. All of the major oily bits are used in other vehicles and it should be perfectly viable to run.

v8s4me said:

So, is this a realistic expectation? A little bit of research seems to indicate the 1994 – 1996 200TDi models with the LT77 ‘box are the ones to look at (I’d prefer a manual).

I'm not sure why these would be the ones too look for tbh.

Over the years there were actually not all that many changes to the RR. The interior updated slightly and then the soft dash, air rear suspension and a few different engine and gearbox options.

The 200Tdi is fine motor, as is the 300Tdi. But people pay silly money for Tdi Range Rover's. In many ways you'd be better off buying a V8 and swapping in a Tdi engine, chances are it'll cost you a lot less money overall.

I'm also not against the 2.5 VM diesels - although the internet will tell you they are the worst thing ever. But we ran one for years with no problem at all and a VM unit easily out performs a Tdi, even a tweaked Tdi.

I'm personally not a fan of the latter soft dash Range Rovers. They feel more cramped and claustrophobic inside, also the switch gear feels cheaper and nastier to me. I'd also avoid an LSE unless you really need the extra rear leg room, not that they are bad, but the longer wheelbase makes them heavier, with a worse turning circle and apart from leg room is a negative for everything else.

v8s4me said:

How much should I expect to pay for a really good example? What mpg should I expect from one of these? Is there a Range Rover owners club or other forum I should be looking at? Your thoughts, comments and suggestions etc very welcome. Thanks in advance.

[v8s4me]

Thanks for such a comprehensive and informative response.

I currently drive a 2.2 D4D Avensis which delivers remarkable mpg (45mpg around town and 60mpg on a long motorway run). I also run a 1992 TVR V8S which averages 20mpg from its RV8. Whilst I wouldn’t expect Avensis economy, single figure RV8 urban consumption in such heavy vehicle is out of the question but I had hoped the diesel would be 30mpg ish around town and possibly upto 40mpg ish on a long run. It won’t be driven hard and I won’t be towing or going off road but it sounds like I’m being naive.

In terms of reliability, I’d be wanting to avoid major mechanical issues and stupid things like the wiper switch or lighting malfunctioning, heating jamming in one position all the time ie the really annoying things stemming from the poor build quality of the time. Hopefully on a vehicle of this age, and for the money I’m thinking of spending, all that sort of thing, the rust and water ingress, would have been sorted out by a previous owner. Changing filters and other consumables as part of a regular service routine is a given. I ran an Isuzu Trooper for a number of years so 4X4 specific maintenance items like greasing all the different joints is again, just part of normal service expectations.

How leaky is the 200TDi? Is the VM any better? If the VM engined models are better value I’d see no reason not to consider one given your comments but I assume if it was VM it would be pre ’92? What about spares though? LR TDi spares seem to be readily available and inexpensive. Would it really be cheaper buying a V8 and swapping in a TDi engine?

I also prefer the older styling and I would definitely want to avoid air suspension as I’m sure it would be more prone to issues than the simple coil & damper set up.

Given the above what would your recommendation be? (Stick with the Avensis? )

Thanks again.
Joe

[300bhp/ton]

v8s4me said:

I had hoped the diesel would be 30mpg ish around town and possibly upto 40mpg ish on a long run.

There are very few 4x4's that can attain this. Even the last of the line Freelanders with the modern CRD BMW Td4 unit it can't really offer that kind of mpg, close but not quite. Something like a diesel X-Trail is about your only bet if you really need an easy'ish 40mpg.

But no proper 4x4 of similar size and weight to a classic Range Rover will be offering this kind of ability and nothing from a similar time period. This includes Jap and American 4x4's.

v8s4me said:

In terms of reliability, I’d be wanting to avoid major mechanical issues and stupid things like the wiper switch or lighting malfunctioning, heating jamming in one position all the time

Major mechanical issues are fairly rare, in terms of engine and drivetrain. And all fairly cheap to sort should they go wrong. But silly niggles are a common feature you'll find on all Land Rovers, no matter their age or how much maintenance they have had.

v8s4me said:

How leaky is the 200TDi?

About the same an RV8 or a 300Tdi or any other engine LR have used. They are very good engines and I wouldn't worry about leaks on the engine itself, although rocker cover gaskets mean they don't always look pristine.

But it's the rest of the vehicle, there are a load of oil seals in the axles, the transfer box, where everything bolts together. One or more of these will likely always be leaking a bit. It's not a problem, just something they do.

v8s4me said:

Is the VM any better?

The internet will tell you no they aren't.

I think this stems from a latter version in the Jeep Cherokee being very problematic and when first introduced in Range Rover's they were 2.4 litres and a bit gutless. A prat on Top Gear at the time slated them big time.

In my experience the 2.5VM in the RRC was a very nice engine and ours was no bother at all. We also owned it for a long time too.

v8s4me said:

If the VM engined models are better value I’d see no reason not to consider one given your comments but I assume if it was VM it would be pre ’92? What about spares though? LR TDi spares seem to be readily available and inexpensive.

VM's are fairly rare and any diesel RR tends to sell for a premium over a petrol one. Spares in general shouldn't be a problem with a pre'92, although some VM specific bits might be harder to get hold of.

v8s4me said:

Would it really be cheaper buying a V8 and swapping in a TDi engine?

It would depend, but overall I suspect yes in most cases.

v8s4me said:

I also prefer the older styling and I would definitely want to avoid air suspension as I’m sure it would be more prone to issues than the simple coil & damper set up.

Given the above what would your recommendation be? (Stick with the Avensis? )

Thanks again.
Joe

If you want an RR or a 4x4 of similar ilk, then mpg will always be your problem.

I like RR's and see no reason why you couldn't run one. Although you'll buy more Discovery for your money. Remember a Discovery is very much a Range Rover, same windscreen and doors, chassis and engines. The only real difference is the body and transfer box.

[Vixpy1]

I have a 92 Classic 3.9..

Daily drive?

[CraigVmax]

I used my 94 LSE most days with no probs.

[300bhp/ton]

Vixpy1 said:

I have a 92 Classic 3.9..

Daily drive?

Yours not a good one then?

[Vixpy1]

300bhp/ton said:

Vixpy1 said:

I have a 92 Classic 3.9..

Daily drive?

Yours not a good one then?

Body/chassis wise its in excellent condition

Anything electrical.. no

[CraigVmax]

my lights did play up now you come to mention electrics

[300bhp/ton]

Vixpy1 said:

Body/chassis wise its in excellent condition

Anything electrical.. no

While this may be true, there really isn't much electrical on them. Some models have electric lights and some get electric windows and seats too. But nothing much that should stop it being used daily.

Remember the same engines, gearboxes, axles, diffs, suspension, etc etc are all used on Disco's and Defenders. Of which many are used daily.

[v8s4me]

300bhp/ton said:

....... About the same an RV8 or a 300Tdi or any other engine LR have used.

Apart from having to tweak the rocker covers now and again my V8S is oil tight. It did take three attempts to seal the sump though before it finally sealed. From the information you’ve given it looks like this might be worth pursuing so now it’s a matter of being patient and waiting for the right one to turn up.

Thanks again for all the information and help above.

Edited by v8s4me on Monday 24th June 18:09

[Nick1point9]

I've got a 91 classic with a 2.5VM. I quite like the engine, it's punchy and not especially unrefined. It's no modern common rail, but nicer than a van. If you're in the right gear then driving at normal road speeds isn't a problem, however I tend to cruise at 60 on dual carriageways/motorways.

Fuel economy wise I get around 27mpg, mix of around town and longer journeys (30/70 split).

If I didn't do such high annual mileage I'd use it as a daily. Can't really comment on reliability as I've only done about 500 miles in mine.

[task]

A Classic is a perfectly usable daily, obviously not as frugal as modern cars but probably not as bad as people think.

I alternate daily use between a Disco and a Classic, although the classic has had a complete nut and bolt rebuild.

[Markh]

I use my 92 Vogue SE everyday, can totally recommend it, have now fitted Janspeed exhaust and reminds me a bit of my old TVR

[0llie]

I was thinking about a 90-94 Vogue (non-SE) as a daily when the Fiesta is sold.

I've had a '94 Disco V8 ES as a daily for a short period of time and that was usable, so I'm sure a RRC can't be that much different.

A little bit of modernisation without spoiling it's originality would be order of the day, I think it would work really well.