Range Rover Sport 2.7 seized engine

[Wetwipe]

OK, hope someone can offer some advice as to what may be going on with my 06 RRS 2.7.

TO cut a long story short, car last serviced May 2013. has run without fault, problems and has covered 2000 miles since.

Went on holiday for 7 days and the car was left with a meet & greet car park valet service. car has definitely only covered 4 miles which is the distance from the airport to the compound.

Arrived back and called to be collected only to be told "the car wont start". went to compound. Battery seemed fine, no warning lights on dash. Only problem was starter kicks in but wont turn the engine.

Got access to a brand new battery. fitted, same problem.

Called RAC who inspected and suspect terminal engine failure. RAC man tried to turn the crank manually and it turns slightly and then wont go any further. looking under the car there is oil on the underside to the nearside.

Obviously there are many questions as to what happened to the car when it was in the care of this parking company, but my initial concern is getting the car sorted and trying to gauge how much my wallet will be emptied.

I appreciate failure diagnosis is very difficult over the web, but are any of you able to offer some advice as to whether what basic details I have given sounds like a seizure or whether something else could be the cause.

TO re-iterate, when dropped off the car was and always has run absolutely fine. Of course, in being in possession of a third party adds a sinister angle, but even then I cant see how they could grenade an engine in an auto.

Would also point out that the oil spillage underneath shows no signs of road grit or the car having been in motion when the oil loss occurred.

Any comments/advice would be most welcome!

[qureshia]

Worth checking the engine in the car is the one that was in it when you dropped it off

[eliot]

qureshia said:

Worth checking the engine in the car is the one that was in it when you dropped it off

Good point and scary if it turns out to be the case.

[Wetwipe]

eliot said:

Good point and scary if it turns out to be the case.

Quite happy it's the same lump. Engine bay hasn't been tampered with.

[bakerstreet]

Have you checked the oil level when you were trying to start it? This would have been one of the first things the AA man would have done.

LR flog refurbed engines. Budget around £5-7k for the engine plus fitting.

[Wetwipe]

bakerstreet said:

Have you checked the oil level when you were trying to start it? This would have been one of the first things the AA man would have done.

LR flog refurbed engines. Budget around £5-7k for the engine plus fitting.

Yep there's very little in the sump which makes me think it's seized. But assuming the yard holding the car didn't hammer it, how could a lump seize on start up? The car has never lost a drop of oil previously.

[Wetwipe]

Wetwipe said:

Yep there's very little in the sump which makes me think it's seized. But assuming the yard holding the car didn't hammer it, how could a lump seize on start up? The car has never lost a drop of oil previously.

To clarify, last time I checked (recently) there was plenty of oil in the engine. It now appears to be all over the near side suspension under the engine!

[miniman]

No sign of any damage to the sump? Or oil cooler pipes etc? How bumpy and potholed is the storage compound?

[budrover]

If oil under the car ... and sump empty ... sounds like the turbo has been using it ....more likely on your drive to the airport .... it may of filled the inlet manifolds with oil, and during the 'park up' this has drained into the cylinders and the engine is hydraulically locked not seized.

Get the injectors out and see if engine turns over with no compression.

You may just be into a turbocharger replacement?

[Wetwipe]

budrover said:

If oil under the car ... and sump empty ... sounds like the turbo has been using it ....more likely on your drive to the airport .... it may of filled the inlet manifolds with oil, and during the 'park up' this has drained into the cylinders and the engine is hydraulically locked not seized.

Get the injectors out and see if engine turns over with no compression.

You may just be into a turbocharger replacement?

Thanks for the advice but alas the reality is much worse. Engine has failed "carastrophically" to the point that a con rod has pierced through the lower sump. Garage firmly believe the car has been absolutely abused

So, its body off, replacement engine, new turbo and everything crossed that our friends at the meet & greet company have not ruined the gearbox as well........

[A.J.M]

How the hell do you punch a hole in that engine in 4 miles?

If the following hasn't been done, i would get it done while the body is off as you won't have better access to the parts and changing them will be simple.

ARB bushes front and rear, get new LR ones.
Rear upper wishbones with new bolts and fixings.
Front lower wishbones with new bolts and fixings.
Decat the exhaust.
Fit silicone hoses to the new engine, there are 3 and 1 is a right wee sod to get on!

I would get the rest of the wishbone bushes checked as well.

I wish you all the best for this as it won't be cheap to fix sadly.

[Wetwipe]

We really don't know. The crank shaft snapping is a known fault but car had run without problem.

On 15 mile journey to airport there were no problems at all. Started on the button, accelerated normally, no warning lights, hesitation, smoke or any other signs of a problem.

Keys handed over and within four miles (allegedly) the engine is utterly trashed. Landy specialist is astonished at the level of damage.

So far I'm in for 3.6k for engine, 650 for turbo and 24 hours labour to do the work.

A harsh lesson to learn. Needless to say, the meet & greet company are not answering my calls.......

[Wetwipe]

A.J.M said:

How the hell do you punch a hole in that engine in 4 miles?

If the following hasn't been done, i would get it done while the body is off as you won't have better access to the parts and changing them will be simple.

ARB bushes front and rear, get new LR ones.
Rear upper wishbones with new bolts and fixings.
Front lower wishbones with new bolts and fixings.
Decat the exhaust.
Fit silicone hoses to the new engine, there are 3 and 1 is a right wee sod to get on!

I would get the rest of the wishbone bushes checked as well.

I wish you all the best for this as it won't be cheap to fix sadly.

Thanks for the body off repair advice! With regard to the damage, I will get a full forensic report once the lump is out. The guy who has supplied the replacement lump said that the cranks are a weak point on these engines. It's possible a failure occurred but the catastrophe was caused by someone ignoring the knocking, warning lights etc and just drove it until it grenaded!

Wouldn't mind if the meet & greet told me that and recovered it in, the fact that they've buried their head in the sand and just said "the car won't start" is a bit daft.

Cost so far:

Bare engine (recon from a respected local engineering co) £3600
Recon turbo (from turbo technics - 2 year warranty) £650
New cam belts & pulleys £200 (ish)
Sundries £200 (ish)
Labour (to lift body, remove. & strip ancilaries, build new engine & refit) 24 hours @ £55 p/h

I'd be amazed if there's no other damage, just praying they've not killed the gearbox as well!

As for liability, the M&G T&CS (which we were never provided with) exclude engine damage unless a court accepts there has been abuse.

Fortunately I have access to a very good contract lawyer at work who will assist with the claim. Once the forensic investigation is complete I will commence proceedings.

A great end to the holiday :S

[A.J.M]

Gearbox should be fine on it. I would say that it would be worth getting the gearbox oil and filter changed, plus the diff oils.
You may find that putting new drop links all round would be a good idea as well. Go genuine LR for parts if you can.
What's the mileage on the car?

I'm saying all the suspension stuff as my 04 D3 (basically your car without the drug dealer image ) has already had the front lowers done, drop links all round and i'm going to get the arbs and the rest of the wishbones changed next month. Mine is on 112k and gets all sorts of abuse off road etc so i'm going genuine LR for as many parts as i can.

[Wetwipe]

A.J.M said:

Gearbox should be fine on it. I would say that it would be worth getting the gearbox oil and filter changed, plus the diff oils.
You may find that putting new drop links all round would be a good idea as well. Go genuine LR for parts if you can.
What's the mileage on the car?

I'm saying all the suspension stuff as my 04 D3 (basically your car without the drug dealer image ) has already had the front lowers done, drop links all round and i'm going to get the arbs and the rest of the wishbones changed next month. Mine is on 112k and gets all sorts of abuse off road etc so i'm going genuine LR for as many parts as i can.

Haha@the dealer comment. The mrs loves it and that keeps her happy

Car has just ticked over 80k but will defo get the oils done, cheers.

[A.J.M]

Your's is coming to the age where giving the suspension a refresh would bring a lot of benefit to how it drives.

The work on top of what you are getting will add a grand or so to the bill but if your going to keep the car for a few more year's, it would be wise to do while access is best.

Sure... blame the wife for the dealer look..

[Digga]

Wetwipe said:

As for liability, the M&G T&CS (which we were never provided with) exclude engine damage unless a court accepts there has been abuse.

It's an intersting one. I did not know there have been cases of cranks snapping, otherwise I would say that, in only 4 recorded miles, getting the lump to throw a leg out of bed would likely be a case of sitting there, revving the plums off the thing in "Park".

I'd have thought even a duff crank needs a few rpm on the clock to fail.

[Wetwipe]

Digga said:

t's an intersting one. I did not know there have been cases of cranks snapping, otherwise I would say that, in only 4 recorded miles, getting the lump to throw a leg out of bed would likely be a case of sitting there, revving the plums off the thing in "Park".

I'd have thought even a duff crank needs a few rpm on the clock to fail.

Me neither! The engine builder said that's a weak point but his opinion is the same as everyone else, the car has been abused.

[RSoovy4]

Wetwipe said:

Digga said:

t's an intersting one. I did not know there have been cases of cranks snapping, otherwise I would say that, in only 4 recorded miles, getting the lump to throw a leg out of bed would likely be a case of sitting there, revving the plums off the thing in "Park".

I'd have thought even a duff crank needs a few rpm on the clock to fail.

Me neither! The engine builder said that's a weak point but his opinion is the same as everyone else, the car has been abused.

I have PM'd you.

If you want help you got it. The valet company have some questions to answer here.

[Digga]

RSoovy4 said:

Wetwipe said:

Digga said:

t's an intersting one. I did not know there have been cases of cranks snapping, otherwise I would say that, in only 4 recorded miles, getting the lump to throw a leg out of bed would likely be a case of sitting there, revving the plums off the thing in "Park".

I'd have thought even a duff crank needs a few rpm on the clock to fail.

Me neither! The engine builder said that's a weak point but his opinion is the same as everyone else, the car has been abused.

I have PM'd you.

If you want help you got it. The valet company have some questions to answer here.

I'd tend to agree that someone there knows the truth behind this - that it was helped on its way. Certainly, with an auto 'box, you can't accidentally over-rev on up/down shifts, although in "Command Mode" I wonder if you can downshift to over-rev? I certainly use it when making progress because it gives better engine braking and throttle control.