Discussion
Having started this thread I thought I'd give a brief update.
I've bought neither to date and am still bashing around in the E class Mercedes family wagon. I'm glad other things have got in the way of an upgrade as my two young children and living in central London have taken quite a toll on the E.
As the kids are a bit older now I'll swap the E in for a VW Golf in the summer (town duties) and buy a used L405 in the autumn.
P
I've bought neither to date and am still bashing around in the E class Mercedes family wagon. I'm glad other things have got in the way of an upgrade as my two young children and living in central London have taken quite a toll on the E.
As the kids are a bit older now I'll swap the E in for a VW Golf in the summer (town duties) and buy a used L405 in the autumn.
P
I'm going to be putting my 2011 Range Rover Vogue SE up for sale very soon. Let me know if interested.
jdwoodbury said:
I wanted to resurrect this thread 12 months on, to see if opinions have changed?
I am in the same dilemma currently, £42-45k buys you a 3yr old 4.4 TDV8 L322 with low miles and heavy specification, or £75k for an entry L405 with just a few choice options (obviously in Vogue specification). Interesting as predicted earlier in this thread late model L322's are still holding value very well.
As a comparison as PCP quotes on these 2 vehicles I have had the following as total cost of ownership (just assuming you handed it back)
L405 (Vogue @ £73k)
22k deposit
23k payments over 35months
GFV @ 37k (36k miles max)
TCO over 3yrs = £45k (does not include residuals)
L322 (Westminster @ £44k)
15k deposit
£15k payments over 35months
GFV @ 20k (36k miles max)
TCO over 3yrs = £30k (does not include residuals)
L405 values are holding strong currently (can't see any under £60k at 2yrs old) however I think that will change in 3yrs time, we are already starting to see discounts appear on new L405 so I think the market will soften. I think in the example above you may be looking at a PX value of around £45-50k on the L405 if you lucky so the TCO may drop by around £10k. With the L322 I think it will be worth more that the £20k quoted (difficult to get values as the facelift and 4.4 are not that old), but I expect you will loose just as much of your deposit as with the L405.
If you factor in the extra cost of servicing on the L322 and consumables (L405 can have a service pack), fuel economy etc, the gap starts to narrow. I think the difference between these cars in TCO over 3yrs (using these examples) would be no more than £10k....thoughts?
I am in the same dilemma currently, £42-45k buys you a 3yr old 4.4 TDV8 L322 with low miles and heavy specification, or £75k for an entry L405 with just a few choice options (obviously in Vogue specification). Interesting as predicted earlier in this thread late model L322's are still holding value very well.
As a comparison as PCP quotes on these 2 vehicles I have had the following as total cost of ownership (just assuming you handed it back)
L405 (Vogue @ £73k)
22k deposit
23k payments over 35months
GFV @ 37k (36k miles max)
TCO over 3yrs = £45k (does not include residuals)
L322 (Westminster @ £44k)
15k deposit
£15k payments over 35months
GFV @ 20k (36k miles max)
TCO over 3yrs = £30k (does not include residuals)
L405 values are holding strong currently (can't see any under £60k at 2yrs old) however I think that will change in 3yrs time, we are already starting to see discounts appear on new L405 so I think the market will soften. I think in the example above you may be looking at a PX value of around £45-50k on the L405 if you lucky so the TCO may drop by around £10k. With the L322 I think it will be worth more that the £20k quoted (difficult to get values as the facelift and 4.4 are not that old), but I expect you will loose just as much of your deposit as with the L405.
If you factor in the extra cost of servicing on the L322 and consumables (L405 can have a service pack), fuel economy etc, the gap starts to narrow. I think the difference between these cars in TCO over 3yrs (using these examples) would be no more than £10k....thoughts?
NomduJour said:
Westminster was a Vogue with some extras (better stereo, dual-view screen, 20" wheels, shinier grille and vents etc.), but an SE has stuff a Westminster doesn't (e.g. semi-aniline leather, adaptive cruise).
The awful Exterior Design Pack was a no-cost option on the last Autobiography cars, depending on colour.
Apologies for resurrection - but currently looking at either 2012 Vogue SE or 2012 Westminster and finding very difficult to get accurate details on differences on standard models The awful Exterior Design Pack was a no-cost option on the last Autobiography cars, depending on colour.
Edited by NomduJour on Monday 16th December 08:44
Does anybody have any more clarifications on the Vogue SE Vs Westminster spec? (strangely JLR cust services don't!)
Quite a lot of info here:
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic11855.html?vie...
The seat leather is one of the main differences.
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic11855.html?vie...
The seat leather is one of the main differences.
Phil. said:
Quite a lot of info here:
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic11855.html?vie...
The seat leather is one of the main differences.
Thanks very interesting - appreciated!http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic11855.html?vie...
The seat leather is one of the main differences.
I just spoke to a main Land Rover dealer and he was categorical that 2012 Westminster does have "adaptive radar cruise control" - is anybody able to verify this at all?
Correct, adaptive cruise was not standard, BUT, Westminsters were available to order with 'extras', so it was possible to spec a Westminster up to the same level as an SE.
We added a number of things onto ours that were on an SE but missing from the standard Westminster spec.
Just missed being able to order one of the last SE models, hence taking a Westminster and adding to it.
We added a number of things onto ours that were on an SE but missing from the standard Westminster spec.
Just missed being able to order one of the last SE models, hence taking a Westminster and adding to it.
@NomduJour - thanks for info.
10 days waiting for JLR cust services to advise, 2 chase ups; 2 dealers unable to answer -- is all JLR dealer/customer engagement like this?
Herdwick said:
Correct, adaptive cruise was not standard, BUT, Westminsters were available to order with 'extras', so it was possible to spec a Westminster up to the same level as an SE.
We added a number of things onto ours that were on an SE but missing from the standard Westminster spec.
Just missed being able to order one of the last SE models, hence taking a Westminster and adding to it.
@Herdwick - thanks, you don't by any chance recall what else was missing on the Westminster compared to the standard Westminster at all do you?We added a number of things onto ours that were on an SE but missing from the standard Westminster spec.
Just missed being able to order one of the last SE models, hence taking a Westminster and adding to it.
10 days waiting for JLR cust services to advise, 2 chase ups; 2 dealers unable to answer -- is all JLR dealer/customer engagement like this?
Dealers aren't particularly well-informed in my experience.
Westminster is basically a Vogue with the addition of 'Noble' finish grille and side vents, 'Titan' splitter bar and fog lamp bezels, 20-inch wheels, illuminated treadplates, piano black trim, metal pedal finishers, heated/cooled seats, 1200W radio and Dual View screen.
SE differences over Vogue are adaptive cruise and semi-aniline leather (with stitching, not piping), heated/cooled seats, 20" wheels, adaptive lights, Home Link and dimming mirrors (also loadspace nets, an extra bit of wood on the console and brushed sill plates).
Westminster is basically a Vogue with the addition of 'Noble' finish grille and side vents, 'Titan' splitter bar and fog lamp bezels, 20-inch wheels, illuminated treadplates, piano black trim, metal pedal finishers, heated/cooled seats, 1200W radio and Dual View screen.
SE differences over Vogue are adaptive cruise and semi-aniline leather (with stitching, not piping), heated/cooled seats, 20" wheels, adaptive lights, Home Link and dimming mirrors (also loadspace nets, an extra bit of wood on the console and brushed sill plates).
NdJ is about right, although Westminster also came with sunroof, full memory seats/steering wheel etc.
think the 'missing bits from an SE were Adaptive cruise, Chromatic mirrors, adaptive lights, Different Leather and stitching on the seats.
I happen to still have the original brochure for 2012 showing just the Westminster & Autobiography models, and that is the same difference, except the Autobiography came with electric, heated/cooled rear seats, and extra trim in leather on dash and headlining etc.
We just added adaptive lights, chromatic mirrors and privacy glass to ours. (Hate adaptive cruise).
so if you see a Wstminster for sale, dont simply assume its not an 'SE', it may have been made to the same spec by its owner.
think the 'missing bits from an SE were Adaptive cruise, Chromatic mirrors, adaptive lights, Different Leather and stitching on the seats.
I happen to still have the original brochure for 2012 showing just the Westminster & Autobiography models, and that is the same difference, except the Autobiography came with electric, heated/cooled rear seats, and extra trim in leather on dash and headlining etc.
We just added adaptive lights, chromatic mirrors and privacy glass to ours. (Hate adaptive cruise).
so if you see a Wstminster for sale, dont simply assume its not an 'SE', it may have been made to the same spec by its owner.
Hi guys... first time posting and apologies for resurrecting an ancient thread, but I just purchased a 2012 Range Rover HSE Supercharged and am not sure if it is a L322 or L405... nothing in the manual or documentation clarifies, nor is it specified on the original window sheet or anywhere else on the car that I can discern. Is there a known date range when the L405s started shipping in 2012? I had assumed it was an L322, but now I'm not so sure. Will be having the car inspected on Monday morning and my LR mechanic may have some insight, in the meantime any knowledge or advice sincerely appreciated!
VB
VB
Edited by victorbravo on Sunday 15th April 20:20
victorbravo said:
Thanks for the replies... I couldn't find any image galleries online of the 2012 L405s vs the late run L322s which is what led me here.
Below is a pic of my car:
Thanks!
Late run L322's like yours had the same body as the 02. L405 has the aluminium body and looks completely different.Below is a pic of my car:
Thanks!
desolate said:
It's an L322.
Thanks so much for the insight guys... was hoping that it was. Such an iconic car and I liked the idea of getting the final iteration. My old Range Rover, which sadly died, was a 2003 Giverny Green HSE and I loved it so. The 510hp is helping to ease my grief. Cheers.Edited by victorbravo on Monday 16th April 15:38
Edited by victorbravo on Monday 16th April 15:39
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