Defender towing issues (Snaking)
Discussion
Hello People,
I do a fair amount of towing and a majority around town so I don't get to hit more than 30 mph, but I have had a fair few times now (more recently) reason to hit the Motorway. Its not the power of the Defender that is the problem, its the snaking.
When the trailer is empty...... I can go as fast as the law allows...
When full with a car on ......
There is a distinctive cut off point, at 50mph she's OK...! at 53 or 55 mph she can snake at will, I dare not take her to 60....
My questions are....
1) Is there anything I can do about this....
2) If there is, what can be done?
I have read about stiffer anti-roll bars...... changing the bushes and put in Poly bushes that are stiffer ...... have heard of suspension type struts from the car to the trailer ..... or do I have to be more careful with the loading ......
Any ideas would be most welcome ....
I do a fair amount of towing and a majority around town so I don't get to hit more than 30 mph, but I have had a fair few times now (more recently) reason to hit the Motorway. Its not the power of the Defender that is the problem, its the snaking.
When the trailer is empty...... I can go as fast as the law allows...
When full with a car on ......
There is a distinctive cut off point, at 50mph she's OK...! at 53 or 55 mph she can snake at will, I dare not take her to 60....
My questions are....
1) Is there anything I can do about this....
2) If there is, what can be done?
I have read about stiffer anti-roll bars...... changing the bushes and put in Poly bushes that are stiffer ...... have heard of suspension type struts from the car to the trailer ..... or do I have to be more careful with the loading ......
Any ideas would be most welcome ....
I've towed a lot of twin axle trailers with 1986 RRC, currently a 17' boat on one. I don't have any anti-snake devices fitted, the car suspension is completely standard, Dixon Bate adjustable height hitch on the car.
You sometimes feel a bit of swaying in the 1st lane of a motorway & that's usually down to the trailer being in ruts worn by HGVs.
This from NTTA website covers most causes:
"Snaking can be caused by a number of factors such as:
Incorrectly placed loads (excessive loading to the rear of the axle(s))
Very light or negative nose weight
Side winds (when a large commercial vehicle or coach overtakes and causes the air to buffet the caravan/trailer, moving the axles out of alignment)
Special purpose built trailers having awkward internal fixtures that may be not balanced, causing instability."
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/stabilisers/stabilisers....
To date, I've not had a snake with a twin axle trailer. I've found them - correctly loaded - to be very stable. Overtaking coaches cause the whole rig to move gently to one side without any bending in the middle.
Occasionally on rough surfaces you get a little pitching - rear of car goes up & down - but nothing of consequence.
I'd suggest using a length of wood between the trailer hitch & a set of bathroom scales to check that the noseweight is correct as specified by Land Rover and the trailer's manufacturer.
You sometimes feel a bit of swaying in the 1st lane of a motorway & that's usually down to the trailer being in ruts worn by HGVs.
This from NTTA website covers most causes:
"Snaking can be caused by a number of factors such as:
Incorrectly placed loads (excessive loading to the rear of the axle(s))
Very light or negative nose weight
Side winds (when a large commercial vehicle or coach overtakes and causes the air to buffet the caravan/trailer, moving the axles out of alignment)
Special purpose built trailers having awkward internal fixtures that may be not balanced, causing instability."
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/stabilisers/stabilisers....
To date, I've not had a snake with a twin axle trailer. I've found them - correctly loaded - to be very stable. Overtaking coaches cause the whole rig to move gently to one side without any bending in the middle.
Occasionally on rough surfaces you get a little pitching - rear of car goes up & down - but nothing of consequence.
I'd suggest using a length of wood between the trailer hitch & a set of bathroom scales to check that the noseweight is correct as specified by Land Rover and the trailer's manufacturer.
Edited by paintman on Friday 18th April 09:33
Thanks, for that .....
I have a feeling its the loading, the car being towed has a 50:50 weight ratio, and being nervous not to get her too far forward, I left her back a bit, when I released the hydraulic tilt on the trailer, she went down, but I had to stand in her to make her go down all the way.....
So it would have given me either a perfectly unweighted hitch weight, or a negative hitch weight..... I think that the max allowed is 250kg, and we were NO WHERE near that.
I think I have to have a look at how I load the car in future and make sure I have a hitch load.......
I have a feeling its the loading, the car being towed has a 50:50 weight ratio, and being nervous not to get her too far forward, I left her back a bit, when I released the hydraulic tilt on the trailer, she went down, but I had to stand in her to make her go down all the way.....
So it would have given me either a perfectly unweighted hitch weight, or a negative hitch weight..... I think that the max allowed is 250kg, and we were NO WHERE near that.
I think I have to have a look at how I load the car in future and make sure I have a hitch load.......
MaverickV12 said:
Thanks, for that .....
I have a feeling its the loading, the car being towed has a 50:50 weight ratio, and being nervous not to get her too far forward, I left her back a bit, when I released the hydraulic tilt on the trailer, she went down, but I had to stand in her to make her go down all the way.....
So it would have given me either a perfectly unweighted hitch weight, or a negative hitch weight..... I think that the max allowed is 250kg, and we were NO WHERE near that.
I think I have to have a look at how I load the car in future and make sure I have a hitch load.......
The defender can probably cope with quite a lot of noseweight but even run of the mill saloons can manage 75kg or so which I'd regard as a minimum.I have a feeling its the loading, the car being towed has a 50:50 weight ratio, and being nervous not to get her too far forward, I left her back a bit, when I released the hydraulic tilt on the trailer, she went down, but I had to stand in her to make her go down all the way.....
So it would have given me either a perfectly unweighted hitch weight, or a negative hitch weight..... I think that the max allowed is 250kg, and we were NO WHERE near that.
I think I have to have a look at how I load the car in future and make sure I have a hitch load.......
MaverickV12 said:
I think I have to have a look at how I load the car in future and make sure I have a hitch load.......
Set of bathroom scales under the jockey wheel is the quickest way to check noseweight.If you only ever tow the same car on it then fix chocks in the right place on the trailer bed and you only need weigh it once.
I'd say noseweight too, if you can lift the hitch easily onto the towball its too light is my general rule especially with twin axle trailers. The 110 should cope with 100-150kg noseweight easily.
Also have noticed some people react to swaying by steering - DON'T
The other thing to check is your panhard rod bushes, check they are not worn
Also have noticed some people react to swaying by steering - DON'T
The other thing to check is your panhard rod bushes, check they are not worn
MaverickV12 said:
cptsideways said:
The other thing to check is your panhard rod bushes, check they are not worn
How many miles do they take to wear?cptsideways said:
Also have noticed some people react to swaying by steering - DON'T
A 'friend' of mine was stupid enough to try to accelerate out of a snake once with a Disco on a trailer - luckily he got away with it!! I tow a caravan and ever since I put an Alko hitch on it has been superbly stable even towing behind a Mk1 Dicovery with a lift and soft springs. Before this it was a nightmare to tow!
Caravan Club list of noseweights here:
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/6678669/nosewei...
To double check you should either read your owners handbook or speak to a LR franchised dealer - just ring them.
Note that the trailer may also have a maximum recommended noseweight.
Land Rover guide to towing here:
https://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/owners/land-rov...
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/6678669/nosewei...
To double check you should either read your owners handbook or speak to a LR franchised dealer - just ring them.
Note that the trailer may also have a maximum recommended noseweight.
Land Rover guide to towing here:
https://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/owners/land-rov...
"When I were a lad" we used to tow a 22ft sngle axle caravan with a MK10 Jag.
My job was to guide Dad and the Jag back onto the hitch and then drop and couple it up. I concur with what is being said above, it's the nose weight thats the problem. If I could lift the caravan hitch with ease the thing would snake all day long, nose weight down and it was able to fair barrel along which we did for many a thousand mile
If confidence is the issue I know the LandRover experience offer towing tuition and I'm sure that the Caravan Club do as well.
To put "confidence" in context I recently went on the LR Experience day in Worcester and used the Defender- bum clenchingly capable is an understatement!
My job was to guide Dad and the Jag back onto the hitch and then drop and couple it up. I concur with what is being said above, it's the nose weight thats the problem. If I could lift the caravan hitch with ease the thing would snake all day long, nose weight down and it was able to fair barrel along which we did for many a thousand mile
If confidence is the issue I know the LandRover experience offer towing tuition and I'm sure that the Caravan Club do as well.
To put "confidence" in context I recently went on the LR Experience day in Worcester and used the Defender- bum clenchingly capable is an understatement!
Sounds like (lack of) nose weight to me too, unless something on the chassis is seriously awry. Worth checking your hitch height too, as too high will increase load on the rear axle of trailer.
My old 110 TD5 towed this quite happily at motorway speeds, despite all-up trailer weight approaching 3 tonnes:
My old 110 TD5 towed this quite happily at motorway speeds, despite all-up trailer weight approaching 3 tonnes:
ArrowSC said:
Sounds like (lack of) nose weight to me too, unless something on the chassis is seriously awry. Worth checking your hitch height too, as too high will increase load on the rear axle of trailer.
My old 110 TD5 towed this quite happily at motorway speeds, despite all-up trailer weight approaching 3 tonnes:
Impressive, not sure I'd be towing with that in a gale though! My old 110 TD5 towed this quite happily at motorway speeds, despite all-up trailer weight approaching 3 tonnes:
IF you're saying that you need to stand on the front of the trailer (am I reading right?) Then you are effectively running a negative nose weight. This is very bad! Have a play around with the car and either a dedicated nose weight scale, or another set of suitably rated scales.
From here: http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-in/land-rov...
150kg max nose weight.
From here: http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-in/land-rov...
150kg max nose weight.
I'd say nose weight as well. If you look at your original picture (may be deceiving angle?) it looks like the trailer is very slightly tilted towards the rear? Stacks up with your comment on the towed car being 50:50 weight. Weigh, as outlined above and I bet the problem will go away.
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff