Replacement for Defender - any information yet?
Discussion
skyrover said:
unrepentant said:
skyrover said:
Defender production will continue abroad it seems where EU legislation does not apply
To sell where?
Yeah, cos all those markets are huge for Defender right now.
Russia? Why on Earth would they want them when the country is littered with thousands of ex-Russian army UAZs? The only JLR product Russia wants is big, blingy Range Rovers.
China? You think they don't make their own copy already?
India? Defender is too expensive to build here. How is India gonna afford it?
Brazil......maybe but it would still have to fend off the Japs.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th August 08:43
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th August 08:58
It's not inconceivable that the Defender will continue to be produced in India and sold to whoever wants it outside of the EU. Having done an offroad trip in a similarly rustical Mahindra earlier this year, I would say that even an Indian made Defender would be a great leap forward. Like Enfield motorcycles over there, they might have a considerable following, despite, like the Enfield, objectively more sensible small bore Japanese alternatives. The Tata ownership would make this option look logical.
Crossflow Kid said:
India? Defender is too expensive to build here. How is India gonna afford it?
The India 'middle-class' is probably larger than the UK total population, and the fastest growing segment. There remains a certain British-eque attitude in this class (e.g. to education and status symbols). Plus the roads are really s
t in many areas and the traffic properly dangerous, which would tend to make people look to large, robust vehicles. If built in India, the Defender would cost less. Tata are already going to do that for Jaguar models for overseas markets.It's not totally impossible to imagine the Defender living on as an Indian built vehicle. The market for them isn't going to disappear overnight.
Edited by kinghottinger on Friday 8th August 10:14
kinghottinger said:
Crossflow Kid said:
India? Defender is too expensive to build here. How is India gonna afford it?
The India 'middle-class' is probably larger than the UK total population, and the fastest growing segment. There remains a certain British-eque attitude in this class (e.g. to education and status symbols). Plus the roads are really st in many areas and the traffic properly dangerous, which would tend to make people look to large, robust vehicles. If built in India, the Defender would cost less. Tata are already going to do that for Jaguar models for overseas markets.It's not totally impossible to imagine the Defender living on as an Indian built vehicle. The market for them isn't going to disappear overnight.
If the upcoming Indian middle classes want a status symbol, how will a utilitarian relic fulfil that?
skyrover said:
unrepentant said:
skyrover said:
Defender production will continue abroad it seems where EU legislation does not apply
To sell where?Crossflow Kid said:
If that's the case, why isn't India crawling with Defenders already?
If the upcoming Indian middle classes want a status symbol, how will a utilitarian relic fulfil that
?
Er, because locally made equivalents are much cheaper partly due to labour cost differences between Birmingham and Bangalore, partly due to import duties.If the upcoming Indian middle classes want a status symbol, how will a utilitarian relic fulfil that
?
One man's utilitarian relic is another man's status symbol. Cf. Enfield as mentioned.
kinghottinger said:
Er, because locally made equivalents are much cheaper partly due to labour cost differences between Birmingham and Bangalore, partly due to import duties.
One man's utilitarian relic is another man's status symbol. Cf. Enfield as mentioned.
Bangalore? Pune surely? One man's utilitarian relic is another man's status symbol. Cf. Enfield as mentioned.
I don't think there's any evidence of a pent up demand for the Defender anywhere, including India. Freelanders are already being assembled in Pune. The aspirant middle classes in India want Range Rovers, not Defenders.
unrepentant said:
Bangalore? Pune surely?
I don't think there's any evidence of a pent up demand for the Defender anywhere, including India. Freelanders are already being assembled in Pune. The aspirant middle classes in India want Range Rovers, not Defenders.
Pune didn't alliterate. You may be right, but as I said, it's entirely possible that production could continue elsewhere, India would be logical, and even if Tata/JLR give up the Defender entirely, they'll be a queue of entrepreneurs wanting to buy the rights to the design. And India would be a prime source of those with the skills and resources to make it. I don't think there's any evidence of a pent up demand for the Defender anywhere, including India. Freelanders are already being assembled in Pune. The aspirant middle classes in India want Range Rovers, not Defenders.
The only reason not to do it would be if there was no market anywhere in the world for it. Hard to believe, especially if it was half the price.
Ayahuasca said:
What makes anyone think there is no market for Defender?
Chrysler sells plenty of Wranglers, a design even older than the Defender.
It sells a reasonble number of Wranglers in the USA, where it is a cultural icon and where it has been adapted to meet legislation. It's generally seen as a cheap 1st car for kids.Chrysler sells plenty of Wranglers, a design even older than the Defender.
kinghottinger said:
One man's utilitarian relic is another man's status symbol.
So these up and coming new age middle class Indians aren't all that up and coming then?Like I said, if they love 'em so much, how come India isn't already full of the damn things? Plenty of old/cheap/used ones around.
I doubt there's any demand for the Defender in an aspirational market like India. JLR are assembling the XF and the Freelander there and no doubt there will be production of the newer vehicles there eventually to satisfy the domestic market. JLR are extremely sharp when it comes to marketing and I'm confident that their corporate finger will be firmly on the pulse of what is and isn't required in local markets.
Do you think there will be any continued demand for the Defender in any market globally, excluding Europe and the US, once production stops?
There are over a billion people in India, same in China, same in Africa. Do you think there is a potential viable market for a locally produced, cheap and simple utilitarian relic based on licenses for the Defender design in any of those markets? Could such a vehicle compete with existing local and far eastern manufacturers?
JLR are good at marketing and will have been testing the water. But Tata are better at not making regular big losses and won't let the Defender brand 'goodwill' just go up in smoke. They'd be mad to do that.
The Beetle was produced in Mexico for 20 years after the Germans stopped building it. Let's hope LR design and build something new that's as succesful as the Golf that followed it (relatively speaking).
There are over a billion people in India, same in China, same in Africa. Do you think there is a potential viable market for a locally produced, cheap and simple utilitarian relic based on licenses for the Defender design in any of those markets? Could such a vehicle compete with existing local and far eastern manufacturers?
JLR are good at marketing and will have been testing the water. But Tata are better at not making regular big losses and won't let the Defender brand 'goodwill' just go up in smoke. They'd be mad to do that.
The Beetle was produced in Mexico for 20 years after the Germans stopped building it. Let's hope LR design and build something new that's as succesful as the Golf that followed it (relatively speaking).
kinghottinger said:
The Beetle was produced in Mexico for 20 years after the Germans stopped building it. Let's hope LR design and build something new that's as succesful as the Golf that followed it (relatively speaking).
Yes, but Mexico had been a long established market before VW pulled the plug, hence Meixco simply picked up where VW left off.Can't really say the same of JLR and India/China etc.
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