The one to get, discovery or defender?
Discussion
Crossflow Kid said:
Note it says the TD5 is MORE complex not TOO complex. Also bear in mind a Wolf is significantly heavier than a Defender so the lighter 300TDi lump would've kept the weight down. It also would've fitted better with existing in-service support so there is far, far more to it than just saying "yeah, 'lectronics were rubbish so they binned it".
You think an electronic throttle is beyond the British Army? Really? Been inside....say....a Challenger 2, or an Apache?
Td5 is no better or worse, it's just different. In years to come people will look at the Puma engine, suck their teeth and go "Oooh, too complicated, give me a Td5 any day".
It really grips my proverbial s
t when people criticise a perfectly good product because of their own self-perpetuating myths about the white man's magic known as automotive electronics and the idea that it can't be repaired with a paper clip.
Calm down... seriously mate.You think an electronic throttle is beyond the British Army? Really? Been inside....say....a Challenger 2, or an Apache?
Td5 is no better or worse, it's just different. In years to come people will look at the Puma engine, suck their teeth and go "Oooh, too complicated, give me a Td5 any day".
It really grips my proverbial s
t when people criticise a perfectly good product because of their own self-perpetuating myths about the white man's magic known as automotive electronics and the idea that it can't be repaired with a paper clip.We understand you like the TD5... On the other hand I do not and have provided the reasons why. Lets leave it at that.
Your reasons are flawed.
You may not like it, but don't extend that to spreading completely unfounded pub bore myths about them and then skulk off with a condescending "Let's leave it at that" as though the discussion is now somehow beneath you.
Let's leave it at that.
You may not like it, but don't extend that to spreading completely unfounded pub bore myths about them and then skulk off with a condescending "Let's leave it at that" as though the discussion is now somehow beneath you.
Let's leave it at that.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 12th November 09:08
I know a guy that's had a TD5 110 Defender since new (S Reg) and put 175000 Hard miles on it. Lots of time towing with 12 people in and a full roof rack.
The engine gave up at 140k or so because a coolant hose disintegrated and the engine overheated fairly catastrophically.
It's since had a new engine and the gearbox is giving up.
It's a tough old beast!
The engine gave up at 140k or so because a coolant hose disintegrated and the engine overheated fairly catastrophically.
It's since had a new engine and the gearbox is giving up.
It's a tough old beast!
The Disco is a better car in every way, safer, more refined, more powerful and more capable off-road, and infinitely better on tarmac.
The Defender is old fashioned, slow, no airbags, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to bits falling off or not working, has the turning circle of the Queen Mary with a broken rudder. You would have to be mad to choose it. Knowing this, the factory fits the interior with traces of a psychotropic drug that, once inhaled, means you can never be without a Defender for the rest of your life.
The Defender is old fashioned, slow, no airbags, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to bits falling off or not working, has the turning circle of the Queen Mary with a broken rudder. You would have to be mad to choose it. Knowing this, the factory fits the interior with traces of a psychotropic drug that, once inhaled, means you can never be without a Defender for the rest of your life.
Ayahuasca said:
The Disco is a better car in every way, safer, more refined, more powerful and more capable off-road, and infinitely better on tarmac.
The Defender is old fashioned, slow, no airbags, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to bits falling off or not working, has the turning circle of the Queen Mary with a broken rudder. You would have to be mad to choose it. Knowing this, the factory fits the interior with traces of a psychotropic drug that, once inhaled, means you can never be without a Defender for the rest of your life.
They do seem to get under your skin. The owners I know all love them and most of the reason I want one is memories of being crammed into a 110 with 11 others on long overnight trips with the scouts!! The owner of that one wouldn't have anything else, or get rid of his, despite having other much more civilized cars to drive.The Defender is old fashioned, slow, no airbags, uncomfortable, noisy, prone to bits falling off or not working, has the turning circle of the Queen Mary with a broken rudder. You would have to be mad to choose it. Knowing this, the factory fits the interior with traces of a psychotropic drug that, once inhaled, means you can never be without a Defender for the rest of your life.
If you're VAT registered I'd spend a bit more and buy new. 3 years of no repair bills.
I bought a new one in 08 and only had an intercooler pipe go since I've been paying the bills, so no you don't have to spend every weekend working on them but you might if you buy a 25 year old amateur rebuild.
I've had just about every derivation of engine in a Defender and Series and (generally) for usability the newer the better. The only one I didn't like was an ex demo TD5, the engine mapping was awful but I understand they sorted that later.
I bought a new one in 08 and only had an intercooler pipe go since I've been paying the bills, so no you don't have to spend every weekend working on them but you might if you buy a 25 year old amateur rebuild.
I've had just about every derivation of engine in a Defender and Series and (generally) for usability the newer the better. The only one I didn't like was an ex demo TD5, the engine mapping was awful but I understand they sorted that later.
My 2p, I just sold my D4. I will be replacing it with a Defender next year.
The question for me is still whether or not to buy one of the last 'new' Defenders, or build/restore a good 300Tdi SW as my forever car.
The Defender is the one I always wanted, the D4 was a compromise as it was a daily for the OH and I knew she'd hate the Defender for that.
The question for me is still whether or not to buy one of the last 'new' Defenders, or build/restore a good 300Tdi SW as my forever car.
The Defender is the one I always wanted, the D4 was a compromise as it was a daily for the OH and I knew she'd hate the Defender for that.
LimaDelta said:
The question for me is still whether or not to buy one of the last 'new' Defenders, or build/restore a good 300Tdi SW as my forever car.
Here's a really good restoration thread by one of our resident pistonheaders
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
skyrover said:
LimaDelta said:
The question for me is still whether or not to buy one of the last 'new' Defenders, or build/restore a good 300Tdi SW as my forever car.
Here's a really good restoration thread by one of our resident pistonheaders
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Gazzab said:
The LR website suggests a tax liability of £115 a month for defender 90 XS 4 seater. Compare this to say a similar value Freelander - it is £369 a month. Hmmm looks like the Defender 90 even with 4 seats MIGHT make sense through my business.
The 110 SW has a 1 tonne payload so you can reclaim the VAT as you would with a van, even with 7 seats.C Lee Farquar said:
Gazzab said:
The LR website suggests a tax liability of £115 a month for defender 90 XS 4 seater. Compare this to say a similar value Freelander - it is £369 a month. Hmmm looks like the Defender 90 even with 4 seats MIGHT make sense through my business.
The 110 SW has a 1 tonne payload so you can reclaim the VAT as you would with a van, even with 7 seats.C Lee Farquar said:
I trade as a sole trader, but I'm not sure that makes any difference to VAT law. Obviously if you reclaim the VAT you have to charge it when you sell. The same as you would with a pick up or van.
Yes but this is from memory, so may not be 100% correct:-You claim VAT on way in
On way out you charge VAT on the current value (which will be quite high due to defender residuals) but also then have to repay the VAT you claimed on the way in based on how much the vehicle has been used for business use. Ie 40% business use means that you repay 60% of VAT claimed when you bought it.
The last bit is probably only applicable to white collar folk who don't need as a business tool (a la a delivery driver) but do use it for business miles
It's this adjustment of VAT that makes it a risk as in effect you are paying VAT twice. This was based on an LLP not sole trader / Ltd company
Obviously if you never sell it then no worries.
Either way, I'd get an accountant to look at your personal circumstance before you buy it and claim the VAT back.
foliedouce said:
Either way, I'd get an accountant to look at your personal circumstance before you buy it and claim the VAT back.
I bought the last one eight years ago, just after they upped the payload to make this possible. Previously you could reclaim the VAT because they were classed as a minibus with 12 seatsC Lee Farquar said:
If you're VAT registered I'd spend a bit more and buy new. 3 years of no repair bills.
I bought a new one in 08 and only had an intercooler pipe go since I've been paying the bills, so no you don't have to spend every weekend working on them but you might if you buy a 25 year old amateur rebuild.
I've had just about every derivation of engine in a Defender and Series and (generally) for usability the newer the better. The only one I didn't like was an ex demo TD5, the engine mapping was awful but I understand they sorted that later.
Likewise, I've just bought a new 110 USW and reclaimed the VAT and offset the tax. And kept a 200tdi and a series 11a for high days and holidays... I bought a new one in 08 and only had an intercooler pipe go since I've been paying the bills, so no you don't have to spend every weekend working on them but you might if you buy a 25 year old amateur rebuild.
I've had just about every derivation of engine in a Defender and Series and (generally) for usability the newer the better. The only one I didn't like was an ex demo TD5, the engine mapping was awful but I understand they sorted that later.
I'd go newer unlesss you want to potter around in it - in which case i'd spend max 9k on a 300tdi with a galv chassis
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff