Range Rover L405 keyless entry security upgrade

[grand cherokee]

there has been much written about thefts of the L405 by thieves getting access to the cars 'port'/cloning codes etc

my car is currently with main dealer for various warranty matters and they are going to address this security weak spot

they are getting an as yet unreleased 'KVM' unit from LR which is supposed to overcome all the weaknesses of the original system

BUT

and its a big but - i have had to give them my spare key because at the time of installation all keys must be programmed because after its installed no more keys can be added

so if you loose a key you cannot get a replacement

if all works as planned a tracker may no longer be essential to get a decent insurance quote?

the edit is to give the module its correct name 'KVM'

Edited by grand cherokee on Saturday 1st August 12:03

[randlemarcus]

grand cherokee said:

there has been much written about thefts of the L405 by thieves getting access to the cars 'port'/cloning codes etc

my car is currently with main dealer for various warranty matters and they are going to address this security weak spot

they are getting an as yet unreleased 'LVC' unit from LR which is supposed to overcome all the weaknesses of the original system

BUT

and its a big but - i have had to give them my spare key because at the time of installation all keys must be programmed because after its installed no more keys can be added

so if you loose a key you cannot get a replacement

I suspect you've got the wrong end of the stick on that last bit. You cannot add keys, so the nasty thieves cannot add keys. I suspect a dealer can add keys, but probably not one at a time anymore, i.e. you lose a key, they supply one, but will need all your existing keys at the same time.

[grand cherokee]

randlemarcus said:

I suspect you've got the wrong end of the stick on that last bit. You cannot add keys, so the nasty thieves cannot add keys. I suspect a dealer can add keys, but probably not one at a time anymore, i.e. you lose a key, they supply one, but will need all your existing keys at the same time.

sorry but i got it completely right

once keys have been programmed and module installed it cannot have any keys added at a later date - not by dealer or LR

if you want new keys it requires a new module (which is expensive) and then new keys programming to said module

i have just ordered a third key just to be on the safe side - and dealer has confirmed that after the KVM module is installed - no further keys can be added under any circumstances

price of new key and blade inc programming is £265.26 which is far cheaper than a key for my friends Renault that was circa £400

i have also spoken to my insurance broker and once full details of the system are made available there MAY be a reduction in my insurance premium

Edited by grand cherokee on Saturday 1st August 12:15

[randlemarcus]

Wow. When negotiating the reduced premium, make sure your key theft coverage is extensive then. And then put a GPS tracker on the missus' set

[grand cherokee]

i'm going to leave the third key with the dealership

in passing

i have a Discovery with 2.2K miles as a courtesy car - pretty much bottom of the range but still circa £42K on the road!

my god its bloody basic to say the least

all black plastic interior trim/cloth seats/no sat nav/no front parking sensors/no heated seats or steering wheel

it handles like a ten year old car - terrible body roll and vague steering when making progress along winding back roads

drivers door and upper tailgate needs slamming to lock properly

given its the V6 3 litre i'd expect decent fuel consumption but getting about 24mpg on local runs - same as my L405 TDV8

maybe because i have to drive in mostly Sport mode to make it perform?

Edited by grand cherokee on Sunday 2nd August 09:26

[camel_landy]

<shakes head>

Disappointed.

That solution sounds a bit blinkered to me. It strikes me there's potential for a much simpler solution, using physical security coupled with technology. This soluton is using technology to fix a problem with the technology... I can understand why, as this is often what happens when you ask a team focused on one area, to come up with the solution. However, combine physical & technology, you'll often end up with a far better solution.

I know there's EU regs and other stuff to consider but on the basis the legit owner will usually have a key to hand:

• Put the ODB port under lock & key (using the ign key).
• Key operated system to swap ECU state from read only to read/write.

...all in tamper proof enclosures obviously.

Mount stuff in resin and use fibre optics too, you then also remove some of the ability to tamper with wires, etc...

They just need to think slightly out of the box.

M

[grand cherokee]

i agree, but they are obsessed with 'technology' to probably justify the price of the car?

to be seen using physical security would be seen as retrograde (but probably better)

technology sometimes seems to be asked to do things currently beyond its effective capabilities - take the 'high beam assist', its just no quite there in response time etc as i frequently get 'flashed' by other drivers when its too slow to dip the headlights

[camel_landy]

grand cherokee said:

to be seen using physical security would be seen as retrograde...

Not necessarily...

After all, you have that emergency key built into the keyfob and it's already used in other areas of the car. I'm suggesting it also gets used to secure the engineering functions, which are essentially invisible to the end user.

M

Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

[grand cherokee]

well all the warranty work have been done - just waiting for the car to be returned at any minute and i can get rid of the hateful Discovery, lol

its been with main dealer for five working days - it will have cost LR many many thousands

its had the suspension virtually rebuilt - just waiting for the SVC which is on back order but expected within two weeks

list of items replaced would fill a page/s

good for me but very expensive for LR - we, the customer do the real road testing

i'll certainly take out extended warranty when the initial warranty runs out - be mad not to do so!

[btcc123]

Its crazy the more technology in a car the easier it is to steal.A reasonably good ideal by Land Rover with your additional security and give you peace of mind when you are away from home but be aware that if a thief wants your car they will come in your house and get the key.

[grand cherokee]

update

having driven the car today after its five days with the main dealer - wow!

its like a new car - all the software was updated/re flashed

don't know what has been done to the gearbox but its much smoother/more responsive and quite a bit quicker

the problems with high beam assist have been sorted - much faster response

vast improvement in quality of tv picture

one touch locking now works as intended

upper tailgate has been adjusted for more gentle closing and the two gloss black rear 'pillars' were replaced as the tailgate was rubbing

soft close doors now work as intended

and many other things

just need to get the SVC replaced and jobs a good 'un

[James B]

Interesting update. Very pleased to hear you've got a resolution.

Our car (2013 L405 Autobiog with the SDV6) has suffered a number of the same issues you found.

In fact it's with LR at present as they sort;

Knocking front suspension (for 2nd time)

Malfunctioning LH steering wheel buttons

Rattling passenger seat when nobody sitting in it

Light rattle from roof

Drivers side windscreen washer pushes water out when rear washer is used

Rubber on keys has become loose

Sometimes the car won't register the key being present if I've been in and out of the car a few times without locking. I can usually sort that by closing it, locking and re-approaching the car. However it locked my wife our recently which was very worrying. It took the AA to get back into the car. Oddly I then saw the same thing happen to a new Jag but this time the keys were in the car and it was running! They're going to update the key software.


However, there are other issues that I think you've also maybe experienced that I didn't have the willpower to take further as they seemed quite small and picky on my part. If they're more widespread then maybe there is a solution?
Issues are;

Our phones (iPhone 6)always need manually connected for the first outgoing call. If you call out the car registers it as going through the car system and rings on speakers but as soon as the call connects it reverts to the handset speaker. Its fine for incoming calls and any subsequent call. Very odd.

We also find the entertainment system slow to function sometimes. Particularly if you get in and then push the heated seat button. The screen can be very slow to react in that circumstance, it's fine the rest of the time.

The soft door close has always confused me. It works only when the car is running. If the car is off then it appears not to work. Is this what you found?

We had the TV reception issue but it was fixed a while back with a software update.
We also had the tailgate alignment issue and had the rear plastics replaced as it had marked them quite badly. All fine now.

[grand cherokee]

James B said:

Interesting update. Very pleased to hear you've got a resolution.

Our car (2013 L405 Autobiog with the SDV6) has suffered a number of the same issues you found.

In fact it's with LR at present as they sort;

Knocking front suspension (for 2nd time)

Malfunctioning LH steering wheel buttons

Rattling passenger seat when nobody sitting in it

Light rattle from roof

Drivers side windscreen washer pushes water out when rear washer is used

Rubber on keys has become loose

Sometimes the car won't register the key being present if I've been in and out of the car a few times without locking. I can usually sort that by closing it, locking and re-approaching the car. However it locked my wife our recently which was very worrying. It took the AA to get back into the car. Oddly I then saw the same thing happen to a new Jag but this time the keys were in the car and it was running! They're going to update the key software.


However, there are other issues that I think you've also maybe experienced that I didn't have the willpower to take further as they seemed quite small and picky on my part. If they're more widespread then maybe there is a solution?
Issues are;

Our phones (iPhone 6)always need manually connected for the first outgoing call. If you call out the car registers it as going through the car system and rings on speakers but as soon as the call connects it reverts to the handset speaker. Its fine for incoming calls and any subsequent call. Very odd.

We also find the entertainment system slow to function sometimes. Particularly if you get in and then push the heated seat button. The screen can be very slow to react in that circumstance, it's fine the rest of the time.

The soft door close has always confused me. It works only when the car is running. If the car is off then it appears not to work. Is this what you found?

We had the TV reception issue but it was fixed a while back with a software update.
We also had the tailgate alignment issue and had the rear plastics replaced as it had marked them quite badly. All fine now.

i have had all the small problems you mention apart from the Iphone problem - i'm a bit like a dog with a bone and don't give up on issues - its up to LR through the dealer to get things right on a circa £100K car or in fact on any car

BUT

this morning a had a really nasty shock - under a bright clear blue sky i saw the car fully for the first time since it was returned on Tuesday

i'd stupidly not told the dealer not to wash the car

the whole car is covered in swirls/fine scratches and several not so small marks - even the brand new gloss black rear pillars that had been replaced

my car had been fully machine polished by a detailer and was cleaned/mini detailed every four/five weeks (4/5 hour)- nobody else cleans/washes the car not even me as my disability means i can no longer care for my car

there was not a single mark anywhere on the car ( i even wipe off bird st with a special liquid every day)

its simply down to bloody dreadful washing technique used by the dealership clowns - dirty clothes/sponge/brush even?

at a minimum its 8/9 hours work to fully machine polish the car/then layer wax/sealant

i'm taking the car back on Monday for then to see the mess they have made

[AR101]

In the event a customer loses keys, the customer will pay for the cost of replacement keys as now. However, you are correct the vehicle will need a replacement KVM as they are now 'read only.' The cost of any subsequent KVMs is covered by Land Rover in the event of lost keys so the cost will not be any different to now for the customer.

[grand cherokee]

grand cherokee said:

i have had all the small problems you mention apart from the Iphone problem - i'm a bit like a dog with a bone and don't give up on issues - its up to LR through the dealer to get things right on a circa £100K car or in fact on any car

BUT

this morning a had a really nasty shock - under a bright clear blue sky i saw the car fully for the first time since it was returned on Tuesday

i'd stupidly not told the dealer not to wash the car

the whole car is covered in swirls/fine scratches and several not so small marks - even the brand new gloss black rear pillars that had been replaced

my car had been fully machine polished by a detailer and was cleaned/mini detailed every four/five weeks (4/5 hour)- nobody else cleans/washes the car not even me as my disability means i can no longer care for my car

there was not a single mark anywhere on the car ( i even wipe off bird st with a special liquid every day)

its simply down to bloody dreadful washing technique used by the dealership clowns - dirty clothes/sponge/brush even?

at a minimum its 8/9 hours work to fully machine polish the car/then layer wax/sealant

i'm taking the car back on Monday for then to see the mess they have made

update

have spoken to my main dealer and they have agreed to cover the costs of full paint correction - a two day job

[mikeh501]

Unreal amount of problems reported on these new gen vehicles which were supposed to be a brave new reliable world for land rover. Marketing and profit before engineering.

Followed a new l405 a couple ofyears ago when they came out and the guy booted it and a good blue smokescreen came out of it!

I have a 1994 defender and a 2015 disco4 (with leccy windows). I'd say the disco is more reliable but not by much lol. To be fair itys been fine except for a trim issue on the tailgate and the autoup not working on the drivers window. Always the small but annoying things eh.

[swisstoni]

My L405 is March 2015 - will that already have the good stuff or will there be an update at first service or will I have to request this read-only gizmo to be fitted in place of the original?

[grand cherokee]

swisstoni said:

My L405 is March 2015 - will that already have the good stuff or will there be an update at first service or will I have to request this read-only gizmo to be fitted in place of the original?

i think the read only KVM is a 'customer' request item - ditto SVC and suspension issues?

because they are not 'safety' issues i understand there are no plans for an official recall

[sealtt]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Got a job booked in next month, might enquire about getting this done at the same time.