£10k RRS ruinous?
Discussion
Drive both - for me the D3 is a very capable car both on / off road. Really depends on what you want. You should be able to get a decent '09 D3 with the colour coded wheel arches and newer seats.
Normal stuff go on disco3 and check the buyers guide. Big costs seem to be for both the torque converter going (rumbles around 40-50mph) front suspension arms (more on the discovery) and the 7 year service (cambelts etc.).
Good luck - great cars.
Normal stuff go on disco3 and check the buyers guide. Big costs seem to be for both the torque converter going (rumbles around 40-50mph) front suspension arms (more on the discovery) and the 7 year service (cambelts etc.).
Good luck - great cars.
Edited by Eversleigh on Monday 30th January 10:56
es, they are potentially very ruinous cars. However, you aren't buying at the bottom of the price range for D3s and thats a good thing.
At that price range, you should be able to get a warranty, which I strongly advise you do.
I'm sorry to say that with D3s, its a case of when and not if, especially with the common faults
Suspension Compressor - Its it's never been replaced and its an early car, budget £500-£800 depending on what you want
Gearbox - This is the biggy. Test drive it and keep and eye on the rev needle. Any fluctuations, budget £4-500 for a flush with new filter, pan and Dr. Tranny added. Might give you another 10k or more depending on use.
Budget £2.5k for new box and TC and thats fitted.
Diffs and props - Both can cause issues. Both are expensive
Wheel bearings - consider them a consumable!
Bushes - consider them a short term consumable
Exhaust cross over pipe - Known to fail on older cars. Exhaust smell can seep into the cab. Body off to replace and the part is very expensive and bolts are usually seized.
Test every single electrical component including all the doors, wing mirros, boot release (Common failure)
Rear door doesn't open first blip of the key? Think its just the mech. Could be if your lucky, but it can also be a wiring loom failure.
Cold starting issues. Could be glow plugs, which will snap in the heads when you try and remove them. Some garages have special tools to replace and budget £700-1k to replace them. Worse case scenario is the body has to come off, heads need to be removed and they are drilled out.
Fuel Burning Heater. Unless you live in northern Scotland or the brecon beacons, it won't get used much and will probably be locked out, which can make cold weather starting tricky.
The Land Rover community is vast. Disco3 and the D3/D4 facebook groups are essential. Remaps (BAS or Alive), EGR blanking are very popular.
HSE or SE models are the one to go for. Avoid the manual box as its crap, but it is more reliable. Stereo with HK Amp is pig to upgrade, but a company called bass junkies has recently released a cable to allow you to junk the stereo head unit and replace with something more modern. However the cable kit os £300, which is pretty steep for a cable.
Bluetooth streaming isn't possible with the standard set up.
Cambelt change is fooking expensive. Expect not much change out of £1k from an indy.
Parking sensors fail due to the looms rubbing on the bodywork and eventually breaking.
Can't be bothered to type any more. Fantastic cars when they are working.
At that price range, you should be able to get a warranty, which I strongly advise you do.
I'm sorry to say that with D3s, its a case of when and not if, especially with the common faults
Suspension Compressor - Its it's never been replaced and its an early car, budget £500-£800 depending on what you want
Gearbox - This is the biggy. Test drive it and keep and eye on the rev needle. Any fluctuations, budget £4-500 for a flush with new filter, pan and Dr. Tranny added. Might give you another 10k or more depending on use.
Budget £2.5k for new box and TC and thats fitted.
Diffs and props - Both can cause issues. Both are expensive
Wheel bearings - consider them a consumable!
Bushes - consider them a short term consumable
Exhaust cross over pipe - Known to fail on older cars. Exhaust smell can seep into the cab. Body off to replace and the part is very expensive and bolts are usually seized.
Test every single electrical component including all the doors, wing mirros, boot release (Common failure)
Rear door doesn't open first blip of the key? Think its just the mech. Could be if your lucky, but it can also be a wiring loom failure.
Cold starting issues. Could be glow plugs, which will snap in the heads when you try and remove them. Some garages have special tools to replace and budget £700-1k to replace them. Worse case scenario is the body has to come off, heads need to be removed and they are drilled out.
Fuel Burning Heater. Unless you live in northern Scotland or the brecon beacons, it won't get used much and will probably be locked out, which can make cold weather starting tricky.
The Land Rover community is vast. Disco3 and the D3/D4 facebook groups are essential. Remaps (BAS or Alive), EGR blanking are very popular.
HSE or SE models are the one to go for. Avoid the manual box as its crap, but it is more reliable. Stereo with HK Amp is pig to upgrade, but a company called bass junkies has recently released a cable to allow you to junk the stereo head unit and replace with something more modern. However the cable kit os £300, which is pretty steep for a cable.
Bluetooth streaming isn't possible with the standard set up.
Cambelt change is fooking expensive. Expect not much change out of £1k from an indy.
Parking sensors fail due to the looms rubbing on the bodywork and eventually breaking.
Can't be bothered to type any more. Fantastic cars when they are working.
pidsy said:
Wow. I've been looking at £12k D3's lately as a replacement for my BMW.
Ownership looks to be a PITA.
£12k is a decent amount of money for a D3. I paid considerably less, but I also see people on the forums who paid more than me have cars with 50k less on them and they still experience issues. Ownership looks to be a PITA.
The D3 is a superb car and buying mine was the realization of a lifelong dream since I was 11 years old. It is one of the few cars onthe market that can swallow a greyhound, buggy and a weekends worth of luggage all in the boot. However my fears (based on nearly five years of research!) quickly became reality. It's worth noting that I haven't seen the really nasty issues which is crank failure and gearbox issues. I would write it off if either of the later occurred.
As the years go on, they will becomes something buyers will want to see on a service history. The issue really is that common. LR said the boxes were sealed for life. Its taken several years for everyone to realize that was incorrect and owners are paying the price to the tune of £2500 for a box rebuild and a new TC.
Even though mine isn't in the best colour, I look at it in the bright sun and can't help but smile. It is a stunning looking machine and will go down in land rover's history as a design icon.
The rose tinted glass wearers that are Land Rover fans will often preach 'they are like all cars, they just need regular maintenance'
That is true, but regular cars don't need an air compressor, air cylinder, fuel burning heater, multiple sunroofs, which can all leak and electrics so complicated that a battery every few years isn't uncommon. A garage once told me that he considers them more complex than 911 of the same era.
Also, your 911 or M3's natural habitat is a track or similar. You rock up to your track, start your engine and away you go.
Imagine your embarrassment, when there is 6 inches of snow outside and you proudly walk out to shiney new D3 go to start it and you can't because the glow plugs are fooked or the FBH is locked out. 6in of snow is where your big manly 4x4 should thrive and proudly take you to work, but it can't and you then mooch off to FB to post a thread (which there are many) stating 'I can't start my D3, any tips'
Your next door neighbor gets in his M3 or even his ford fiesta and drives off to Tesco and you are left thee looking like a right idiot.
Bushes, suspension, tyres, brakes, EGR issues I accept as that is the life of modern diesel ownership. Glow plugs I don't as they are bloody 6mm heads which is a joke for a glowplug, so that is poor design.
I'm not saying don't buy one. What I am saying is budget £1000-2000 on maintenance and preventative is the way forward.
If you do buy one. Do the following immediately:
Gearbox flush, oil pan and filter
Full service including all oils
FBH unlock and a GSM remote, so it can be primed ahead of your journey (Can circumnavigate glow plug issues)
Lastly, Tyres. There is no hiding it. The are very expensive. Budget £150 a corner for something capable in all conditions. I'm sorry to admit that I will be going for a cheap tyre. My wife deserves a weekend away and sometimes cars aren't everything.
hmmm, you arent filling me with a great deal of confidence 
my way of thinking was that i could combine the 3 cars i have (M3, Audi Estate and modified off roader) into one nice looking package that i wouldnt have to spend huge on.
the FFRRS is looking more attractive now but id keep a second car as a run about.
might end up going Japanese.
Bugger!
my way of thinking was that i could combine the 3 cars i have (M3, Audi Estate and modified off roader) into one nice looking package that i wouldnt have to spend huge on.
the FFRRS is looking more attractive now but id keep a second car as a run about.
might end up going Japanese.
Bugger!
pidsy said:
hmmm, you arent filling me with a great deal of confidence
my way of thinking was that i could combine the 3 cars i have (M3, Audi Estate and modified off roader) into one nice looking package that i wouldnt have to spend huge on.
the FFRRS is looking more attractive now but id keep a second car as a run about.
might end up going Japanese.
Bugger!
Early FFRR also known to have gearbox issues, but I think its cheaper to fix compared to the D3 box. my way of thinking was that i could combine the 3 cars i have (M3, Audi Estate and modified off roader) into one nice looking package that i wouldnt have to spend huge on.
the FFRRS is looking more attractive now but id keep a second car as a run about.
might end up going Japanese.
Bugger!
I The FFRR interior is still a thing of beauty even though the early models are over 13 years old. I think they are at the bottom of their depreciation curve and you could pick up a decent one for £7k. Your budget would get more FFR than D3 as the D3 is more versatile and therefor more expensive.
The Land Cruiser is good, but its not a D3 or FFRR. Interior is fairly disappointing. However, the Toyota will be cheaper to run.
I'd pretty much back all this sentiment and advice.
I bought a 5 yr old D4 2 years ago, full history, one owner, great condition etc.
It never ever let me down, but the constant expense to keep things running well (I can't bear niggly issues, things have to work or feel right!) cost me a fortune.
Bushes on the front suspension £750, plus seized bolts etc took the bill to a grand.
Brake lines £300
Discs and pads (a running expense to be expected) £600
But a seized calliper when doing the above added to the cost.
Tyres were probably the most reasonable part of ownership at £600 for all four.
The handling, whilst ok for a big old barge, never did really make it enjoyable to drive. You just had to sit with traffic and enjoy the drive, you really couldn't press on.
And that was the 3.0 TDV6.
Not a bad car as such, just make sure you have a £1,500 to £2k pot for yearly maintenance.
I just got bored of spending money keeping it to my standard.
I bought a 5 yr old D4 2 years ago, full history, one owner, great condition etc.
It never ever let me down, but the constant expense to keep things running well (I can't bear niggly issues, things have to work or feel right!) cost me a fortune.
Bushes on the front suspension £750, plus seized bolts etc took the bill to a grand.
Brake lines £300
Discs and pads (a running expense to be expected) £600
But a seized calliper when doing the above added to the cost.
Tyres were probably the most reasonable part of ownership at £600 for all four.
The handling, whilst ok for a big old barge, never did really make it enjoyable to drive. You just had to sit with traffic and enjoy the drive, you really couldn't press on.
And that was the 3.0 TDV6.
Not a bad car as such, just make sure you have a £1,500 to £2k pot for yearly maintenance.
I just got bored of spending money keeping it to my standard.
I bought a 8 year old D3 in 2012. 54 plate tdv6 HSE. Same week i started back as a full time student.. 
Still have it, ticked over 158k today.
Yes, they are complex, air suspension etc. So have parts that a regular car doesn't have.
Air compressors, fit an AMK and it's sorted for years.
Wishbones? it weighs 2.7 tons, they wear down. Fit genuines and they last. Cheap parts fail quickly.
Gearbox is the big issue, unless you catch it early, the juddering has them gubbed. They need oil changed every 50-70k.
Mine wasn't till 125k when it started to judder, had it flushed but it made it worse, stuck 3 bottles of Dr Tranny in it to tide me over till i get it changed. I do have a replacement torque converter and a low miles replacement box lined up for it.
Yes they can be costly, but mine has never let me down, i've given it death off road, towing, daily driving, moving stuff, the lot.
Can't get rid of it now, put too much time, effort and cash into it.
So it's getting ready to take me to Morocco in October for an overland trip. May as well put the off road mods to proper use.
Plenty out there, some good. Some bad. The better ones can be found on owner forums, also lets you check the owners posting history to see if it's had issues and were they resolved.
Still have it, ticked over 158k today.
Yes, they are complex, air suspension etc. So have parts that a regular car doesn't have.
Air compressors, fit an AMK and it's sorted for years.
Wishbones? it weighs 2.7 tons, they wear down. Fit genuines and they last. Cheap parts fail quickly.
Gearbox is the big issue, unless you catch it early, the juddering has them gubbed. They need oil changed every 50-70k.
Mine wasn't till 125k when it started to judder, had it flushed but it made it worse, stuck 3 bottles of Dr Tranny in it to tide me over till i get it changed. I do have a replacement torque converter and a low miles replacement box lined up for it.
Yes they can be costly, but mine has never let me down, i've given it death off road, towing, daily driving, moving stuff, the lot.
Can't get rid of it now, put too much time, effort and cash into it.
So it's getting ready to take me to Morocco in October for an overland trip. May as well put the off road mods to proper use.
Plenty out there, some good. Some bad. The better ones can be found on owner forums, also lets you check the owners posting history to see if it's had issues and were they resolved.
Trade customer (dealer in small vans) of mine was considering buying a RRS - his wife fancied one.
Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
paintman said:
Trade customer (dealer in small vans) of mine was considering buying a RRS - his wife fancied one.
Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
A friend of mine bought a '60 plate RRS - it's been a total nightmare and it's put him off the brand for life. He says if he knew then what he knows now he'd never have bought it; it's rinsed him thousands and is STILL in bits at the specialist needing more work.Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
Miniman - I would avoid an RRS like the plague....!
Edited by Funk on Monday 20th March 12:57
My D3 is an 08, bought four years ago on 78k and now on 138k, and my experience has been very different.
When I bought it I threw £1,500 at a three-and-a-half-year warranty and consequently the following failures, all common enough, have cost me no more than that:
Front lower and rear upper wishbones & bushes/pivots
OSR brake caliper
Suspension compressor
Alternator
Low pressure fuel pump
High pressure fuel pump - which also saved me half the cost of the cambelt service
Torque converter - which also saw the bulk of the transmission fluid replaced
Two - or three - parking sensors
The boot release failed, as is also common, but that cost peanuts and took me an hour to fix. I've also fitted the bigger brakes from a V8, replaced the ARB droplinks and done a few other minor bits and bobs myself.
I've renewed the warranty and will keep the car for another couple of years, but I'd buy another, or a later, 8spd D4 quite happily.
Three essentials:
Find a warranty that covers more or less everything, not just powertrain, and allows you to drop 'betterment' and 'wear and tear'. I've found Warranty Direct excellent, but others may be better.
Find a car that won't exceed the maximum age/mileage of that warranty during your ownership.
Find a good independent specialist. The majority of the horror stories I've read are down to garages that don't have the gear or the experience to deal with the things - they're complicated, and have unique requirements. I'm fortunate in that mine is five miles down the road, has a national reputation and charges £65 an hour...
Tyres, as mentioned above, are expensive, but mine came with Grabber ATs on it. They weren't new at 78k miles and the set I fitted at about 100k are still on the car at 138k and will get to 150.
I think it's still a near-unbeatable balance of space, comfort and practicality - and as it happens it's away today being remapped for a bit more oomph, as we've had to replace our ancient SAAB, which means we'll be keeping the D3 for a bit longer.
When I bought it I threw £1,500 at a three-and-a-half-year warranty and consequently the following failures, all common enough, have cost me no more than that:
Front lower and rear upper wishbones & bushes/pivots
OSR brake caliper
Suspension compressor
Alternator
Low pressure fuel pump
High pressure fuel pump - which also saved me half the cost of the cambelt service
Torque converter - which also saw the bulk of the transmission fluid replaced
Two - or three - parking sensors
The boot release failed, as is also common, but that cost peanuts and took me an hour to fix. I've also fitted the bigger brakes from a V8, replaced the ARB droplinks and done a few other minor bits and bobs myself.
I've renewed the warranty and will keep the car for another couple of years, but I'd buy another, or a later, 8spd D4 quite happily.
Three essentials:
Find a warranty that covers more or less everything, not just powertrain, and allows you to drop 'betterment' and 'wear and tear'. I've found Warranty Direct excellent, but others may be better.
Find a car that won't exceed the maximum age/mileage of that warranty during your ownership.
Find a good independent specialist. The majority of the horror stories I've read are down to garages that don't have the gear or the experience to deal with the things - they're complicated, and have unique requirements. I'm fortunate in that mine is five miles down the road, has a national reputation and charges £65 an hour...
Tyres, as mentioned above, are expensive, but mine came with Grabber ATs on it. They weren't new at 78k miles and the set I fitted at about 100k are still on the car at 138k and will get to 150.
I think it's still a near-unbeatable balance of space, comfort and practicality - and as it happens it's away today being remapped for a bit more oomph, as we've had to replace our ancient SAAB, which means we'll be keeping the D3 for a bit longer.
Funk said:
paintman said:
Trade customer (dealer in small vans) of mine was considering buying a RRS - his wife fancied one.
Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
A friend of mine bought a '60 plate RRS - it's been a total nightmare and it's put him off the brand for life. He says if he knew then what he knows now he'd never have bought it; it's rinsed him thousands and is STILL in bits at the specialist needing more work.Discussion with another trader who specialises in 'high end' vehicles was that if it's out of factory warranty then touch & bargepole apply & due to experience he no longer buys them in & any he takes as p/x go straight to auction.
Miniman - I would avoid an RRS like the plague....!
Edited by Funk on Monday 20th March 12:57
I've had two RRS's, an early 2006 2.7 and current (18 months so far) 2010 3.0. Both HSE spec and have been fine, usual consumables along the way and the 2.7 needed a re-map to make it better to drive. Would buy again without hesitation.
LFB531 said:
Converse view;
I've had two RRS's, an early 2006 2.7 and current (18 months so far) 2010 3.0. Both HSE spec and have been fine, usual consumables along the way and the 2.7 needed a re-map to make it better to drive. Would buy again without hesitation.
Glad yours has behaved. Even the LR specialist repairing it said avoid the 3.0 diesel in the RRS though...!I've had two RRS's, an early 2006 2.7 and current (18 months so far) 2010 3.0. Both HSE spec and have been fine, usual consumables along the way and the 2.7 needed a re-map to make it better to drive. Would buy again without hesitation.
Im 100K miles into a 2009 RRS and a mate is near 200K miles into his 2006 first edition. Both 4.2SC V8. No real major issues, just consumables, inc bearing packs and bushes. My parking sensors have gone now and will be fixed at service next month. Otherwise no need to change the car, it has another 3-4 yrs and 100K miles in it for me.
My mate bought new in 2006, I bought mine used in 2012 for less than 1/2 price with 30k miles on it. THe trade in value now (sub £10k) makes it not worth changing. If I can drive 150-170K miles in a V8 RRS and "only" lose £20k or so depreciation over say 6-7 years thats ok in my book of luxury car motoring.
I have had worse luck with hot Audis and Volvos that have cost me many thousands in just a couple of years/40k miles....a lot is just luck if you get an average car or one where a few things fail in a short time period.
Land Rover sell huge volumes of products. Search online and you will always find a horror story or two, just like anything, theres always a mates mate who owned one, had some big bills, so he fixed them and sold it on. No doubt the next guy kept it a few years, nothing went wrong and he proclaimed it a "reliable car" ...service history is everything on an older car...as always
My mate bought new in 2006, I bought mine used in 2012 for less than 1/2 price with 30k miles on it. THe trade in value now (sub £10k) makes it not worth changing. If I can drive 150-170K miles in a V8 RRS and "only" lose £20k or so depreciation over say 6-7 years thats ok in my book of luxury car motoring.
I have had worse luck with hot Audis and Volvos that have cost me many thousands in just a couple of years/40k miles....a lot is just luck if you get an average car or one where a few things fail in a short time period.
Land Rover sell huge volumes of products. Search online and you will always find a horror story or two, just like anything, theres always a mates mate who owned one, had some big bills, so he fixed them and sold it on. No doubt the next guy kept it a few years, nothing went wrong and he proclaimed it a "reliable car" ...service history is everything on an older car...as always
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