Is it me or is Land Rover now rubbish?
Discussion
bakerstreet said:
Yeah, but the difference is, Land Rover pride them selves on being a go anywhere vehicle and that is where it gets very embarrassing for them. However, they are one of those marks who can do no wrong. As in they continue to churn stuff that is inferior to the competition in terms of reliability, but they don't need to discount their products to shift them as there is a lengthy waiting lists for the latest Range Rovers.
It took them to 2012 to get a gearbox that isn't keeping the gearbox company owners in holiday homes in Cornwall...
The least said about the SDV6 engine, the better. Same for the early ingenium 4 pot diesels. There really is no good option for an engine in the early D5s.
Think I might have a mince pie.
Try the mince pies from GreggsIt took them to 2012 to get a gearbox that isn't keeping the gearbox company owners in holiday homes in Cornwall...
The least said about the SDV6 engine, the better. Same for the early ingenium 4 pot diesels. There really is no good option for an engine in the early D5s.
Think I might have a mince pie.
AW111 said:
Pit Pony said:
<snip>
Its been a long wait, but I'm getting my revenge, purely by thinking bad things about the organisations.
Now that's a superpower worth having!Its been a long wait, but I'm getting my revenge, purely by thinking bad things about the organisations.
Severity. Nobody dies. But the customer has to make alternative arrangements. Next time they might not want the hassle of 10 weeks in a courtesy car.
Occurrence. We've designed something that's not completely new, but we are using it in a new application. So the potential for s
t to happen is moderate to faur. And clearly the detection, that is Developmemt testing, validation of the design, doesn't actually capture the design faults. It's worse. Often the software is fighting the diagnostics, of the issue, or there actually isn't a real issue. Ah well.
That they have supply issues doesn't surprise me. I've dealt with automation suppliers who when approached by JLR to quote on bespoke projects, double the price, and double the lead time automatically. And set up separate Ltd companies solely to run the project through.
WayOutWest said:
Crumpet said:
The problem is that when you’re in a RR or a new RRS or a Defender, you realise that there’s nothing on the market quite like them. When they work they’re brilliant.
But the thefts, the insurance issues, the parts issues, the reliability issues…….its not worth the hassle. So after five JLR cars (four from new), I’m out. I’m going to try something else but I’m really struggling to find anything that interests me, hence why I’m knocking about in a ten year old Freelander!
Ha! The Freelander is the best 4x4 Ford ever made!But the thefts, the insurance issues, the parts issues, the reliability issues…….its not worth the hassle. So after five JLR cars (four from new), I’m out. I’m going to try something else but I’m really struggling to find anything that interests me, hence why I’m knocking about in a ten year old Freelander!
Ours is now nearly 13 years old, owned for 5 years and every year we think what to replace it with?
Seriously, it has never really gone wrong as such and the only costs have been annual servicing and consumables. A used Defender 90 would be nice, they do drive lovely, or for half the money a Discovery Sport with that 240 engine which is supposedly less troublesome than the D180?
It just on 112k miles so should have plenty of life left in it, I might just drive it for another 5 years.
Just to update on this. My Sept 2022 RRS has now been with the dealer for 4 months waiting on JLR to provide the part. So the car has spent 25% of its life in the garage. Requesting a refund but JLR equally slow dealing with that. Utterly useless.
Apparently the compensation is capped at £1000 as I’ve had a replacement car period. But only if I wait for them to fix it….. note I’m not interested in profiting I just want my own car I paid for to work.
Apparently the compensation is capped at £1000 as I’ve had a replacement car period. But only if I wait for them to fix it….. note I’m not interested in profiting I just want my own car I paid for to work.
We have owned a Discovery Sport since new (2016) and its been the worst ownership experience of any car, let alone a supposed premium one. The only positive is that it has finally convinced my OH that we should get one of the new land cruisers as the replacement!
It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
acricha3 said:
We have owned a Discovery Sport since new (2016) and its been the worst ownership experience of any car, let alone a supposed premium one. The only positive is that it has finally convinced my OH that we should get one of the new land cruisers as the replacement!
It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
Whereas....It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
We have had a DS for the past seven years and it has been almost faultless. One issue that did arise several years ago was done under warranty and the local LR MD was excellent.
Looks like you should have got rid of yours rather earlier than seven years in your case!
Interesting that you think it is a "supposed premium" car. I don't.
R.
The Leaper said:
acricha3 said:
We have owned a Discovery Sport since new (2016) and its been the worst ownership experience of any car, let alone a supposed premium one. The only positive is that it has finally convinced my OH that we should get one of the new land cruisers as the replacement!
It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
Whereas....It was delivered with a torn headlining that apparently the dealer "didn't spot" during PDI (took 4 goes at replacing), washer pipe not connected properly to the rear window which leaked everywhere when you used it, leaking transfer box, AdBlue malfunction due to wires not long enough, multiple infotainment errors and the list goes on.
Couple that with one of the worst (and most expensive) dealer networks known to man and an atrocious attitude to customer service and its clear its only repeated government bailouts that really keeps them afloat.
Sadly they are culturally and organisational unable to design, manufacture and maintain modern cars for their customers, they should have been allowed to die years ago.
I see the issues with security as only the latest in a long line of spectacular failures that are embarrassing and quite frankly should never happen, not just the design issue, but the atrocious response and contempt they show their customers.
On my car the steering rack was one the rack manufacturer had declared unsafe due to a manufacturing fault. Every other car brand that used those racks recalled the cars years ago, it took a series of accidents, media pressure and finally government intervention to force them to do something, even then it was a limited campaign and begrudgingly. Watching that unfold as an owner was eye opening and worrying in equal measure.
We have had a DS for the past seven years and it has been almost faultless. One issue that did arise several years ago was done under warranty and the local LR MD was excellent.
Looks like you should have got rid of yours rather earlier than seven years in your case!
Interesting that you think it is a "supposed premium" car. I don't.
R.
Given the plural of anecdote isn't data, my commentary was less about my car, but more the overall approach from the brand and the continual issue their cars have, both design faults and general poor build quality. On the DS directly they released a car with a known dangerous steering rack (you may want to check yours ;-)) and failed to support customers until pressured, going as far as to deny the issue even when the manufacturer was calling them out. Other brands recalled and fixed proactively.
My commentary was more a response to the title of the thread, ".......is Land Rover now rubbish?", yes it is.
Been a loyal LR person since my teens. Never perfect but the product always outweighed the problems for me.
Started process of replacing my Discovery 4 in January and it's been a pretty crappy customer journey even with my already low expectations.
Started looking at a new RRS and got close to order before finding out its almost insurable under a new policy. Only JLR insurance offered anything and it was sky high. A lot of playing dumb at dealer (though stories in national press) which I guess is fair enough if I ordered before checking. Not great though and I was in no way blaming JLR, just be good to know.
Started over on a Defender PHEV as insurance was at least possible. I have it spec'd up and ready to order minus a couple of minor queries and I'd like to see and test drive one. Tried 3 local dealers and no-one I've spoken to has even a basic knowledge of the different specs. One chap clearly didn't know what the core Landrover range was.
Don't have a demonstrator and (apparently) no way to check who has so I'll call round within their group myself or check via Autotrader for a used one. Closed sales lead basically and felt like they actively didn't want to sell anything no matter how low resistance was.
Been a while since I bought the D4 but if I'd said on first contact I was "ready to order" I think the salesperson would have polished my shoes!
One thing that stood out at each dealer is that there was zero customer parking. They all have cars parked everywhere, presumably waiting on parts.
I know a wider car industry issue around customer experience but from my experience it's been poor so far. It does feel like a decent product (far from perfect) but poor dealers.
Not a Musk fan but can respect where Tesla were heading before he lost plot. Showroom, sales tech, simple model options, order online.
Started process of replacing my Discovery 4 in January and it's been a pretty crappy customer journey even with my already low expectations.
Started looking at a new RRS and got close to order before finding out its almost insurable under a new policy. Only JLR insurance offered anything and it was sky high. A lot of playing dumb at dealer (though stories in national press) which I guess is fair enough if I ordered before checking. Not great though and I was in no way blaming JLR, just be good to know.
Started over on a Defender PHEV as insurance was at least possible. I have it spec'd up and ready to order minus a couple of minor queries and I'd like to see and test drive one. Tried 3 local dealers and no-one I've spoken to has even a basic knowledge of the different specs. One chap clearly didn't know what the core Landrover range was.
Don't have a demonstrator and (apparently) no way to check who has so I'll call round within their group myself or check via Autotrader for a used one. Closed sales lead basically and felt like they actively didn't want to sell anything no matter how low resistance was.
Been a while since I bought the D4 but if I'd said on first contact I was "ready to order" I think the salesperson would have polished my shoes!
One thing that stood out at each dealer is that there was zero customer parking. They all have cars parked everywhere, presumably waiting on parts.
I know a wider car industry issue around customer experience but from my experience it's been poor so far. It does feel like a decent product (far from perfect) but poor dealers.
Not a Musk fan but can respect where Tesla were heading before he lost plot. Showroom, sales tech, simple model options, order online.
It does stagger me when you talk to showroom staff and you quickly work out you know more than them about their cars purely based on a general interest in cars, 2 or 3 youtube reviews and peruse of the manufacturers website.
What are they doing day in, day out? When I ordered my car the woman told me they didn't do it in red.
It looks to red to me love, and there was only about 6 colours to choose from.
What are they doing day in, day out? When I ordered my car the woman told me they didn't do it in red.
It looks to red to me love, and there was only about 6 colours to choose from.
ChocolateFrog said:
What are they doing day in, day out?
I said same to my wife. The gaps I saw seemed like stuff you'd pickup by being in the building for a few days. Definitely not car geek stuff. I was stood looking at the LR website for information on my phone at the dealership and awkwardly asking "are you sure on that".Feels like a waste of time going to speak to the specialist and finding out they know almost nothing about the product.
I'd guess the knowledgeable sales people are tied up with repeat customers that change every 2 years.
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