Porous Block - Solution?

[Skier]

Hi all,

I have just had a major failure of my engine (4.6) due to the porous block issue. There were no indications whatsoever until the pinking started very swiftly followed by my gliding to a halt on the hard
shoulder. Isn't it bizarre that these engines don't have a water level indicator?

I'm after some advice on the way forward. Some thoughts as follows (not saying that I'll follow these through - just thinking at this stage):

1. Complain and seek some contribution from specialist that serviced the vehicle at 72k just 4 weeks ago and were asked to look for possible water leak but forund nothing. This may be a little unfair as it's not apparent until something lets go big time.

2. Complain and seek some contribution from Land Rover. No doubt they would deny there was a problem despite a large number of individuals suffering the same fate - any independent Land Rover specialist can
confirm this. Has anyone else had any joy persuing Land Rover in court for a clearly defective design?

3. Have engine repaired at cost of approx 3k. This was the quote from a local Land Rover specialist. On investigation I feel this is excessive for what is being offered.

4. Buy uprated engine from someone like RPI Engineering. This doesn't give any guarantee against the same thing happening again though I have now looked at V8 Developments who offer upgrades with the fitting of top hat liners.

5. Have Chevy LS1 engine fitted. See www.chevroletls1.com and www.ls1-power.com Now this would result in an awesome vehicle but would cost around 13k and is pushing the tranmission to its limits (approx 350 bhp and lb/ft torque). I am sorely tempted.

The car is in immaculate condition so I will be putting it back on the road.

Regards and thanks in advance for contributions.

Skier

Edited by Skier on Monday 4th September 22:55

[ramthorne]

I had a P38 that had a fair chunck of engine block replacement paid for by Land Rover out of warranty. So they did pay but if yours is 9 years old or so I would think any claim would be optimistic.

The Chevy is certainly more robust and understressed than a similar powered Rover but £13k seems a little on the steep side for a conversion. If everything was new you should get the parts for less than £8k including a one off stainless exhaust.

If choosing a Rover engined 'specialist', do your homework and use Google, there are a number of worrying trends with some Companies.

I sold mine and we now have the latest Classic we could find without air suspension, from a forum member, and I prefer everything about it.

[Skier]

Ramthorne,

Would you PM me with your opinions on various engine specialists. I have done quite a bit of research into my options and ultimately it will largely depend on what intitial diagnosis shows is required to rectify. If it's the straightforward fitting of top hat liners and a small rebuild then I'll do that as it will be far cheaper than other options. If I need a new short/long engine then I may consider the Chevy option for a bit of fun.

Any experiences gratefully received.

Skier

[ramthorne]

Your receive email option is off

[Skier]

Oops! Now sorted.

[BLUETHUNDER]

Landrover will deny there is a problem like they did with me seven years ago when mine went.Once you get your new engine fitted then get the E.C.U re-mapped.its now common knowledge that the main reason for pourous blocks is that the mapping on the 4.6 runs too lean through the mid ranges causing exessive heat build up in the cylinders,causing the block issues.Or for those with the problems just starting to occur you can use liquid glass.Ive known it to be applied to about eight P38,s without any come backs.

[greenlandy]

What is this porous block syndrome? I know of the problem with some blocks and liners coming seperated but not this one.

[Trooper2]

greenlandy said:

What is this porous block syndrome? I know of the problem with some blocks and liners coming seperated but not this one.

Its more of a problem in aluminum blocks and heads than cast iron. Basically during the casting process bubbles form in the molten metal and when it cools it leaves a portion of the casting in a sponge like state. If not caught in quality control and put into service these porous blocks or heads can eventually leak or even fail.

[greenlandy]

Thanks for that

[steve_d]

Speak to Boosted LS1 on here. He builds both Rover and Chevy engines so may be able to offer more than one option for your problem.

Steve

[gep]

Basically under excessive heat the aluminium block expands or cracks and the steel cylinder liner slips. Some early blocks were manufactured poorly as previously mentioned but the main cause is faults in the coolant system. Earlier rads had very narrow passageways that clogged really easily and they all corrode of time, other parts like the stat etc can also fail... overheating creates nearly all the problems and it can go unnoticed until its too late.

Im unconvinced that the very expensive chips solve the problem. If you want to prevent overheating spend your money on a quality rad and replace the stat, any less than perfect hoses that could potentially leak and change coolant correct regularly

Also, the 4.6 can slog at around 2000rpm under load instead of dropping a gear, when approaching a steep hill select sport mode

Although some engine builders say they are bodge because they dont solve the real cause, i like the idea of top hat cylinder liners as they give insurance in case you do overheat. I'd want it based on a NEW BLOCK though, when they say seasoned they really mean an old block thats already cracked. Be sure to get the coolant system thoroughly gone through when bolting in the new engine

Good luck

Edited by gep on Saturday 9th September 14:17

[Skier]

Hi,

My vehicle is currently with V8 Developments and having one of their 5.3 top hat liner, heavily breathed on engines fitted. I decided that rather than simply have a TH linered standard engine fitted I may as well get something positive out of the experience and have a bit of fun.

I'll probably pick it up towards the end of next week and will post my initial impressions and after I've run it in I'll post again.

Regards

Skier

[Skier]

Well, after some 7 weeks I have my Range Rover back from V8 Developments. I'm still running it in and have limited it to 3,000rpm for first 500 miles (done 250 so far). Oil and filter change at 500 miles then V8 say I can use as I wish though I think I'll be a little cautious for next 500 miles also.

Anyway, replacing the standard 4.6 I now have a 5.3 top hat linered engine. From what I can tell so far the torque band really starts around 2,300rpm and from there to 3,000rpm it pulls very strongly. There is a marked increase in acceleration within this band and I'm sure outside of it when I begin to use it. No problems so far and if the appearance of the work is an indication of quality then it would be tough to beat.

Further update once fully run-in.

Regards

Skier

[gep]

Sounds awesome

Any upgrades to the rest of drivetrain, brakes etc?

[Skier]

I have previously uprated the brakes and suspension (the best mod I made to this car was to fit Koni shocks absorbers with a setting of 1 - in a range of 0 to 3). There have been no mods to the drivetrain as such as I'm reliably informed by several knowledgabale indivuduals that there is no requirement.

I have previously fitted a Rimmer Bros stainless exhaust (£600 fitted with a lifetime guarantee as opposed to a mild steel one from LandRover for £700 - the previous one having lasted just 2 years!) This makes the standard engine sound somewhat more like a V8; with this engine it sounds positively 'purposeful.'

As a matter of interest if anyone wants a 'puposeful' P38 have a look at this vehicle (this looks virtually identical to mine):

www.overfinch.com/?node_id=1.3.3&vehicle_id=30

Regards

Skier

Edited by Skier on Sunday 29th October 11:08

[parklane]

V8 developments built and installed my 4.0 V8 in 1998. The Landy has probably only done 40,000 miles since then, but I can't fault the engine and the quality of their work. Still need to get round to fitting a nice new webber carb though to make it sing!

[Skier]

Well, the engine is run-in, the oil and filter changed and the full rev range is now available. As promised, here’s a follow-up on the V8 Developments 5.3ltr engine I recently had fitted to my Range Rover P38.

So far the engine has been absolutely perfect; it hasn’t missed a beat. I asked for a high torque engine and I’m told that it will be pushing out around 340bhp and around 380lb/ft. The engine hasn’t been dyno’d and these are figures I was told but I can believe them. The acceleration and ability to overtake are improved beyond recognition and it now overtakes like a sports car – which is appropriate as it sounds a little like my old TVR Griffith 500 when revved.

The fuel consumption is little different from the standard 4.6 but then if I was worried about this I’d have bought something else!

If appearance is anything to go by then the quality of the work carried out by V8 Developments is second-to-none. If you’re looking to replace your engine for any reason then I can thoroughly recommend the 5.3ltr engine from V8 Developments. It isn’t a cheap option (£9k) but hey, if you’re running a V8 Range Rover you’ll be used to things not being cheap!

If you’re around the Cheltenham area and want to know more let me know.

Regards

Skier

Edited by Skier on Sunday 5th November 00:13

[notthehamster]

BLUETHUNDER said:

Landrover will deny there is a problem like they did with me seven years ago when mine went.Once you get your new engine fitted then get the E.C.U re-mapped.its now common knowledge that the main reason for pourous blocks is that the mapping on the 4.6 runs too lean through the mid ranges causing exessive heat build up in the cylinders,causing the block issues.Or for those with the problems just starting to occur you can use liquid glass.Ive known it to be applied to about eight P38,s without any come backs.

Can you explain the liquid glass solution please.

[BLUETHUNDER]

notthehamster said:

BLUETHUNDER said:

Landrover will deny there is a problem like they did with me seven years ago when mine went.Once you get your new engine fitted then get the E.C.U re-mapped.its now common knowledge that the main reason for pourous blocks is that the mapping on the 4.6 runs too lean through the mid ranges causing exessive heat build up in the cylinders,causing the block issues.Or for those with the problems just starting to occur you can use liquid glass.Ive known it to be applied to about eight P38,s without any come backs.

Can you explain the liquid glass solution please.

Liquid glass is made up of metal molocules in liquid form.Its made by a U.S. Company called BLUE MAGIC INC,and goes under the brand of CarGo.It comes in 11.4oz(323g)bottle and costs around £20.In order for it to work you need to follow the instructions on the bottle carefully.If you do all this and dont let the car run hot then it is a PERMANENT solution to the porus block issue.My mate has applied it to around 10 P38,s with these issues over a period of two years and only had one come back.And that was due to the owner letting it run very hot and boil over.Once the liquid glass was applied again he never had any more problems.

[notthehamster]

thanks, product details noted in case it happens to me. My condolences to those affected.