300 Tdi or TD5??
Discussion
Hi All,
I have been swayed to go the diesel route by my local mechanic and now have to choose between a late model 300Tdi or an early (ish) TD5...
I'll be using the Disco as a daily driver, on the smallholding (a fair few acres), and for towing a car trailor.
What do you all suggest and why? Any help greatly appreciated.
I have been swayed to go the diesel route by my local mechanic and now have to choose between a late model 300Tdi or an early (ish) TD5...
I'll be using the Disco as a daily driver, on the smallholding (a fair few acres), and for towing a car trailor.
What do you all suggest and why? Any help greatly appreciated.
I would say go for the TD5.
There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing
)
The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing
)The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
Psimpson7 said:
I would say go for the TD5.
There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing)
The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
Agree with the above. I've had a 300tdi and a td5 (Defender and not a Disco) and prefered the td5 for what I used it for. Whats the budget?There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing
)The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
bracken78 said:
Psimpson7 said:
I would say go for the TD5.
There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing)
The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
Agree with the above. I've had a 300tdi and a td5 (Defender and not a Disco) and prefered the td5 for what I used it for. Whats the budget?There is far more to it than just the engine. (which people seem to keep missing
)The D2 is a far better car than the D1 in pretty much every way. More powerful, nicer to drive, much stronger underneath, better suspension design, much less prone to rust, etc etc..
The TD5 is also better than the TDI really. There are some issues to be aware of but there are issues with the TDI also.
You are also much more likely to find a better condition, lower mileage one.
Rgds
Pete
Andy Sargeant said:
We fix them and our choice if you want the least amount of problems is 300TDI, try and find a late, low mileage JAP import and then get it properly wax oiled, TD5's are just "junk".
Or find a TD5 with a blown engine and reto fit a 2.8 TGV.
aNDY.
Hi Andy,Or find a TD5 with a blown engine and reto fit a 2.8 TGV.
aNDY.
Strong words you are using there...are they (TD5's) really THAT bad? My list of uses for the vehicle is in the original post, and includes being a daily driver, for which I've been told the TD5 is the preference?
All the Mk 1 Discos I've seen so far have been rotten/rusty and I've not seen any Jap imports (although I'd be inclined to steer well clear of those normally).
Thanks for your advice though, keep it coming if that's OK!
Cheers,
Jason.
Andy Sargeant said:
We fix them and our choice if you want the least amount of problems is 300TDI, try and find a late, low mileage JAP import and then get it properly wax oiled, TD5's are just "junk".
Or find a TD5 with a blown engine and reto fit a 2.8 TGV.
aNDY.
You really do come across as a clown some times... for someone who "supposedly" knows what he is doing.......Or find a TD5 with a blown engine and reto fit a 2.8 TGV.
aNDY.
Very rude comment from Psimpson7 which I will overlook.
My customers can't all be wrong and neither can I, we are seeing more and more problems with the Disco 2 TD5's, like; Air Suspension, ACE, Fault lights etc, also rust, yes just like the D1 we are finding the rear ends getting the old metal moth, also diagnostics are a pain.
Just Google "Disco TD5 problems" and have a good read, it may take some time so put the kettle on.
I agree that there is a big rust problem with the Disco 1, this is why I say try and find a late, low mileage Disco 1 import from Japan, which you will be best getting it properly rust treated before you start using it, we have many customers who have gone this way and are "very happy" with there choice and are quite easy to fix with no problems.
I have been in business looking after all L/Rovers for 34 years and have seen many, many changes, not all for the better, I earn quite a good living from repairing the product and still use a Disco 1 which anyboby would be happy to own, we build Defenders from scratch and take great pride in our work and have a good name with many "very happy" customers.
We are all different and have our own vieu's, these are mine and I will stick by what I say without having to be rude to anyone.
My customers can't all be wrong and neither can I, we are seeing more and more problems with the Disco 2 TD5's, like; Air Suspension, ACE, Fault lights etc, also rust, yes just like the D1 we are finding the rear ends getting the old metal moth, also diagnostics are a pain.
Just Google "Disco TD5 problems" and have a good read, it may take some time so put the kettle on.
I agree that there is a big rust problem with the Disco 1, this is why I say try and find a late, low mileage Disco 1 import from Japan, which you will be best getting it properly rust treated before you start using it, we have many customers who have gone this way and are "very happy" with there choice and are quite easy to fix with no problems.
I have been in business looking after all L/Rovers for 34 years and have seen many, many changes, not all for the better, I earn quite a good living from repairing the product and still use a Disco 1 which anyboby would be happy to own, we build Defenders from scratch and take great pride in our work and have a good name with many "very happy" customers.
We are all different and have our own vieu's, these are mine and I will stick by what I say without having to be rude to anyone.
Andy Sargeant said:
Very rude comment from Psimpson7 which I will overlook.
My customers can't all be wrong and neither can I, we are seeing more and more problems with the Disco 2 TD5's, like; Air Suspension, ACE, Fault lights etc, also rust, yes just like the D1 we are finding the rear ends getting the old metal moth, also diagnostics are a pain.
Just Google "Disco TD5 problems" and have a good read, it may take some time so put the kettle on.
I agree that there is a big rust problem with the Disco 1, this is why I say try and find a late, low mileage Disco 1 import from Japan, which you will be best getting it properly rust treated before you start using it, we have many customers who have gone this way and are "very happy" with there choice and are quite easy to fix with no problems.
I have been in business looking after all L/Rovers for 34 years and have seen many, many changes, not all for the better, I earn quite a good living from repairing the product and still use a Disco 1 which anyboby would be happy to own, we build Defenders from scratch and take great pride in our work and have a good name with many "very happy" customers.
We are all different and have our own vieu's, these are mine and I will stick by what I say without having to be rude to anyone.
Thanks for the additional info, Andy.My customers can't all be wrong and neither can I, we are seeing more and more problems with the Disco 2 TD5's, like; Air Suspension, ACE, Fault lights etc, also rust, yes just like the D1 we are finding the rear ends getting the old metal moth, also diagnostics are a pain.
Just Google "Disco TD5 problems" and have a good read, it may take some time so put the kettle on.
I agree that there is a big rust problem with the Disco 1, this is why I say try and find a late, low mileage Disco 1 import from Japan, which you will be best getting it properly rust treated before you start using it, we have many customers who have gone this way and are "very happy" with there choice and are quite easy to fix with no problems.
I have been in business looking after all L/Rovers for 34 years and have seen many, many changes, not all for the better, I earn quite a good living from repairing the product and still use a Disco 1 which anyboby would be happy to own, we build Defenders from scratch and take great pride in our work and have a good name with many "very happy" customers.
We are all different and have our own vieu's, these are mine and I will stick by what I say without having to be rude to anyone.
I must say, I find this all very confusing... Please put up with a couple more questions though?
Can the ACE be turned off on the TD5, or is it always on?
Where on earth can I find a Jap import 300TDi?
I'm not that far away from your business - do you know of any good Landies for sale in my budget?
Many thanks,
Jason.
Andy,
Youu second reply lists faults which are D2 specific, not TD5 specific. I agree with most of those, but comments like TD5's are junk dont help anyone, and dont make you seem to be that knowledgable.
Going through your listed faults.
Rear suspension - yes can be a pain, but is really fairly simple. some of them are coil sprung also. airbags are easy enough to change, as is the compressor etc
ACE - I personally dont know of any faults with ACE on D2's - It is also well worth having. i would be interested to know what you have seen fail with that?
One of the biggest D2 specific issues you may see with them is the presensce of the HDC,ABS and TC lights which can be the ABS shuttle valve, or the modulator - this is more of an expensive fix.
Another one you missed us the DC joint on the front prop which can and is known to fail with possibly serious results.
With regard to engine issues, ie TD5 or V8 again they both have issues. Both are pretty good though.
V8 can suffer from slipped linners which is pretty serious, and the TD5 has a few known issues, some minor, like oil in the ecu plugs, MAF sensor longevity, starter motor interfering with crank position sensor signals, and some major, especially on the earlier <2001 ones like the fact that LR seemed to forget to loctite the oil pump bolt.
Other issues with teh earlier TD5 engine were plastic dowels between the head and block which arent ideal. >2002 went to steel
Yes the D1 is simpler, but it also has issues.
Also you can buy handy diasgnostics tools like the Nanocom for teh TD5 fairly cheaply, which have all the capability of the factory stuff, and can do engine, slabs, body control etc etc.
Good luck with what you decide.
Rgds
Youu second reply lists faults which are D2 specific, not TD5 specific. I agree with most of those, but comments like TD5's are junk dont help anyone, and dont make you seem to be that knowledgable.
Going through your listed faults.
Rear suspension - yes can be a pain, but is really fairly simple. some of them are coil sprung also. airbags are easy enough to change, as is the compressor etc
ACE - I personally dont know of any faults with ACE on D2's - It is also well worth having. i would be interested to know what you have seen fail with that?
One of the biggest D2 specific issues you may see with them is the presensce of the HDC,ABS and TC lights which can be the ABS shuttle valve, or the modulator - this is more of an expensive fix.
Another one you missed us the DC joint on the front prop which can and is known to fail with possibly serious results.
With regard to engine issues, ie TD5 or V8 again they both have issues. Both are pretty good though.
V8 can suffer from slipped linners which is pretty serious, and the TD5 has a few known issues, some minor, like oil in the ecu plugs, MAF sensor longevity, starter motor interfering with crank position sensor signals, and some major, especially on the earlier <2001 ones like the fact that LR seemed to forget to loctite the oil pump bolt.
Other issues with teh earlier TD5 engine were plastic dowels between the head and block which arent ideal. >2002 went to steel
Yes the D1 is simpler, but it also has issues.
Also you can buy handy diasgnostics tools like the Nanocom for teh TD5 fairly cheaply, which have all the capability of the factory stuff, and can do engine, slabs, body control etc etc.
Good luck with what you decide.
Rgds
Edited by Psimpson7 on Tuesday 10th March 22:14
Ive had Disco's from the first G reg 200tdi then 3x 300 tdi's 1x Early TD5 and 2x TDV6 Disco3.
All of them did over 180,000 miles each apart from the 2x TDv6 Discovery 3's which are still going strong and I never had one engine problem..not even a gearbox....with ANY of the Discovery's I have owned
And they were all used for heavy towing, and off road use too.
All of them did over 180,000 miles each apart from the 2x TDv6 Discovery 3's which are still going strong and I never had one engine problem..not even a gearbox....with ANY of the Discovery's I have owned
And they were all used for heavy towing, and off road use too.
Thanks for adding all the other faults Psimpson7 that I missed, here are a few more to add to the list;
Leaking injector seals.
Duel mass flywheels breaking up.
Cracked cylinder heads and fuel chambers.
ACE pipes rusting through.
ACE pumps failing.
Radiators leaking (very common)
Fuel pressure regulators leaking.
Leaking sunroofs, etc,etc,etc.
To name but a few, these are facts and I wish they were not. Over the years it seems like L/Rover expect there customers to do "there" R+D work.
We get embarassed sometimes with all these problems and explain to our customers that we try to fix what L/Rover made.
I accept that there are a few owners who have been lucky and escaped without tooooooooooo much trouble.
Even the man from "AUTOLOGIC" say's that only 40% of faults can be properly detected, then you just keep fitting parts untill hopefully the problem goes away.
I still love L/Rovers and own quite a few, but if given the choice to drive round the world would not choose a TD5.
Andy.
Leaking injector seals.
Duel mass flywheels breaking up.
Cracked cylinder heads and fuel chambers.
ACE pipes rusting through.
ACE pumps failing.
Radiators leaking (very common)
Fuel pressure regulators leaking.
Leaking sunroofs, etc,etc,etc.
To name but a few, these are facts and I wish they were not. Over the years it seems like L/Rover expect there customers to do "there" R+D work.
We get embarassed sometimes with all these problems and explain to our customers that we try to fix what L/Rover made.
I accept that there are a few owners who have been lucky and escaped without tooooooooooo much trouble.
Even the man from "AUTOLOGIC" say's that only 40% of faults can be properly detected, then you just keep fitting parts untill hopefully the problem goes away.
I still love L/Rovers and own quite a few, but if given the choice to drive round the world would not choose a TD5.
Andy.
Edited by Andy Sargeant on Thursday 12th March 08:26
I have to agree, after the many hundreds of pages of info I've read it seems to me that the disco2 seems to be riddled with problems, I don't understand why a land rover needs all the electric techy gubbins that they pack them with these days, surely if a driver wants techno luxury gimmicks they could buy one of the many other marques available? yes D2 looks wonderfully tough and high tech, but i have to say, i wouldn't touch one with a barge pole after all the problems folk have had that I've read about,
Shame they didn't just develop the original disco to be better, just imagine what a perfect low tech truck it could be by now.!
Electronic gadgetry gets wet, dirty and it breaks, it has no place on a land rover in my opinion. the 6th land rover I intend to own will be a carefully inspected D1..!
Shame they didn't just develop the original disco to be better, just imagine what a perfect low tech truck it could be by now.!
Electronic gadgetry gets wet, dirty and it breaks, it has no place on a land rover in my opinion. the 6th land rover I intend to own will be a carefully inspected D1..!
I've had both and although the chassis on the TD5 was better with improved steering, ACE and air suspension, I preferred the TDi. The main reason was the engine characteristics. Although the TD5 was much quieter, smoother, more economical and ultimately more powerful, the initial torque delivery was terrible, especially for a heavy 4WD. On mine it didn't deliver useful torque until 1500 - 1750 RPM.
philyaboots said:
I have to agree, after the many hundreds of pages of info I've read it seems to me that the disco2 seems to be riddled with problems, I don't understand why a land rover needs all the electric techy gubbins that they pack them with these days, surely if a driver wants techno luxury gimmicks they could buy one of the many other marques available? yes D2 looks wonderfully tough and high tech, but i have to say, i wouldn't touch one with a barge pole after all the problems folk have had that I've read about,
Shame they didn't just develop the original disco to be better, just imagine what a perfect low tech truck it could be by now.!
Electronic gadgetry gets wet, dirty and it breaks, it has no place on a land rover in my opinion. the 6th land rover I intend to own will be a carefully inspected D1..!
Good sentiment, unfortunately JLR realised ages ago that "image" sells and longevity is secondary. Also emissions legislation mitigates against "traditional" diesel engines or carburetters.Shame they didn't just develop the original disco to be better, just imagine what a perfect low tech truck it could be by now.!
Electronic gadgetry gets wet, dirty and it breaks, it has no place on a land rover in my opinion. the 6th land rover I intend to own will be a carefully inspected D1..!
I'll stick with my 300TDi truck thank you!
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