Wrangler or Defender

[300bhp/ton]

Fume troll said:

300bhp/ton said:

Fume troll said:

300bhp/ton said:

viperboy said:

I know this threds a bit old but....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHF_ToYYJww

Sorry but I really hate idiotic posts like this. All it proves is the poster is a fool and evidently and blatantly doesn't understand tyres and driver have vastly more affect on a vehicles off road ability.

Vastly more than what? I agree though, any comparison from the video is pointless without the facts.

By the way, I know of a nice black 4.0 jeep for sale if anyone's interested.

Cheers,

FT.

Vastly more affect on how good or how far a vehicle will be off road.

Yes.....vastly more than what though? Oh never mind.

Cheers,

FT.

lol

Not sure if I'm confused or if you are some what ripping the ......

If it's just mennot being clear. Then this is what I mean

2 identical Land Rover Defenders, same suspension, tyres and engines.

Both try an ascend the same climb. LR1 fails repeatedly. LR2 driven by someone else takes a slightly different line and carries more momentum. They make it look easy and make it to th top on first attempt.

So in the vid above, if the drivers swapped vehicles chances are the Wrangler would make the climb first time while the Landy would be struck trying again and again.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 13th October 10:16

[Lefty]

Fully agree. I was spectating at an RTV a couple of years ago and a guy finished second in a near-standard 90 with a set of decent mud tyres and a snorkel.

He beat blokes with heavily modified vehicles (axle lockers, dislocating suspension etc). Part of that was probably down to the terrain though - if it was a rock-crawling type challenge where extreme articulation and locking diffs matter so much he probably wouldn't have come close.

Having said all that, the chap who won was probably of a similar skill level but had a Mog-axled 100" hybrid with an interesting hydraulic-lifting belly-pan thing.

[Fume troll]

300bhp/ton said:

lol

Not sure if I'm confused or if you are some what ripping the ......

Somewhat...

300bhp/ton said:

If it's just mennot being clear. Then this is what I mean

2 identical Land Rover Defenders, same suspension, tyres and engines.

Both try an ascend the same climb. LR1 fails repeatedly. LR2 driven by someone else takes a slightly different line and carries more momentum. They make it look easy and make it to th top on first attempt.

So in the vid above, if the drivers swapped vehicles chances are the Wrangler would make the climb first time while the Landy would be struck trying again and again.

Agreed.

Cheers,

FT.

[Fume troll]

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

[Lefty]

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

[cmackay81]

Lefty said:

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

i agree with what you are saying, but people always bring up the arguement that a well driven xxx is better than a badly driven yyy. in the end. it will only be YOU that is driving it. so the better it handles offroad, the better you will do in it! you will learn to get better in what ever you are driving.

and I think the 90 and wrangler are both excellent offroaders, excelling in different areas.

[Fume troll]

By the way, who else Sky+'d up all the episodes of "A 4x4 is born" over the last few weeks?

Cheers,

FT.

[300bhp/ton]

cmackay81 said:

Lefty said:

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

i agree with what you are saying, but people always bring up the arguement that a well driven xxx is better than a badly driven yyy. in the end. it will only be YOU that is driving it. so the better it handles offroad, the better you will do in it! you will learn to get better in what ever you are driving.

and I think the 90 and wrangler are both excellent offroaders, excelling in different areas.

Curious, but what different areas?

[300bhp/ton]

Lefty said:

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

YJ was the original Wrangler after the CJ7. The YJ was leaf sprung (has square headlights). The TJ has coils all round (has round headlights).

[wombat172a]

300bhp/ton said:

cmackay81 said:

Lefty said:

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

i agree with what you are saying, but people always bring up the arguement that a well driven xxx is better than a badly driven yyy. in the end. it will only be YOU that is driving it. so the better it handles offroad, the better you will do in it! you will learn to get better in what ever you are driving.

and I think the 90 and wrangler are both excellent offroaders, excelling in different areas.

Curious, but what different areas?

For an easy start I would suggest that the 90 would out perform a wrangler at mud-plugging, whereas a wrangler would be a much better starting point for dune-bashing where power & grunt are really required.

[Fume troll]

wombat172a said:

whereas a wrangler would be a much better starting point for dune-bashing where power & grunt are really required.

Which engines are you considering in your assumptions? See above...

Cheers,

FT.

[wombat172a]

Fume troll said:

wombat172a said:

whereas a wrangler would be a much better starting point for dune-bashing where power & grunt are really required.

Which engines are you considering in your assumptions? See above...

Cheers,

FT.

I suppose really the 4L+ straight 6s in the YJs and others, personally I don't have much experience with jeeps too much, but more power is always favourable in the sand (land cruisers possibly more favourable?). Yes, there were the V8 90s/110s early on, but iirc they were massively de-tuned on SU carbs?

[Bill]

And what's the fuel tank like on a Jeep? In the dunes range is pretty vital....

[cmackay81]

wombat172a said:

300bhp/ton said:

cmackay81 said:

Lefty said:

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Absolutely. Take one 90 and one Wrangler (coil-sprung, is that the YJ?) with dislocatings springs, long travel dampers, the same size tyres, hydro steering, diff lockers etc. If the two vehicles have similar mods I would think they would have very similar offroad ability.

i agree with what you are saying, but people always bring up the arguement that a well driven xxx is better than a badly driven yyy. in the end. it will only be YOU that is driving it. so the better it handles offroad, the better you will do in it! you will learn to get better in what ever you are driving.

and I think the 90 and wrangler are both excellent offroaders, excelling in different areas.

Curious, but what different areas?

For an easy start I would suggest that the 90 would out perform a wrangler at mud-plugging, whereas a wrangler would be a much better starting point for dune-bashing where power & grunt are really required.

exactly the same as I would have said. 90 for mudplugging/water and wrangler for rockcrawling/real steep big stuff.

4.0 in the wrangler. and as v8s in 90s are pretty hard to find, the diesel lump.

[plasticpig]

wombat172a said:

Fume troll said:

wombat172a said:

whereas a wrangler would be a much better starting point for dune-bashing where power & grunt are really required.

Which engines are you considering in your assumptions? See above...

Cheers,

FT.

I suppose really the 4L+ straight 6s in the YJs and others, personally I don't have much experience with jeeps too much, but more power is always favourable in the sand (land cruisers possibly more favourable?). Yes, there were the V8 90s/110s early on, but iirc they were massively de-tuned on SU carbs?

No. 4 litre fuel injected V8 with a 4 speed auto box on the final USA model 90. Roughly the same bhp and torque as a Wrangler.

[wombat172a]

Bill said:

And what's the fuel tank like on a Jeep? In the dunes range is pretty vital....

True, but jerry cans will fit in the boot though


It's horses for courses really, and with Algeria closed to independant travel I think Morocco is the only sandy playground left. And as that means you're not really going to go for weeks without seeing a town/fuel station, or even someone to tow you out the point is fairly moot.

Edited by wombat172a on Wednesday 13th October 13:26

[300bhp/ton]

Fume troll said:

cmackay81 said:

in the end it is much more about the vehicle than people are accepting here. There seems to be a thing that someone great at offroading could take a yaris through a quarry, whilst someone not so good couldn't follow in a jeep. sorry but no.

I don't think anyone is saying that, I think they're saying that there is a limited difference between Wranglers and 90s, despite each having its advantages and areas where it will excel. In comparing the two in general terms there are so many factors involved that it becomes pointless. And once you start changing tyres, ride heights, adding locking diffs or traction control, all bets are even further off unless you know the details.

Cheers,

FT.

Exactly. And if you look at the stats the Wrangler TJ and 90 are very similar

	90	Wrangler TJ
Ladder chassis	x	x
Live axles	x	x
Wheelbase	92.9"	93.4"
Length	142" - 160"	151.2" - 155.4"
Width	70.5"	66.7" - 68.3"
	80.2"	71.1"
Coil suspension	x	x
Front Diff locker
Rear diff locker		optional

And arguably the Wrangler has stronger axles, more powerful engine options, automatic transmission and a suspension system that doesn't need to dislocate at extreme flex angles.

[Bill]

wombat172a said:

It's horses for courses really, and with Algeria closed to independant travel I think Morocco is the only sandy playground left. And as that means you're not really going to go for weeks without seeing a town/fuel station, or even someone to tow you out the point is fairly moot.
]

Or Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan... Jordan, the Gulf States and I'm sure there are more.

And with the Jeep you'll need approaching twice the fuel load for the same range.

[wombat172a]

Bill said:

wombat172a said:

It's horses for courses really, and with Algeria closed to independant travel I think Morocco is the only sandy playground left. And as that means you're not really going to go for weeks without seeing a town/fuel station, or even someone to tow you out the point is fairly moot.
]

Or Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan... Jordan, the Gulf States and I'm sure there are more.

And with the Jeep you'll need approaching twice the fuel load for the same range.

True there is Tunisia but again you won't be more than a couple of days away from a fuel station, and I can't remember if you need an escort in the south now or not? What's the border like at Libya nowadays? Last I heard it can still take a couple of days to get across? Egypt still has a ridiculous carnet, so hardly any overlanders head that way which also rules out Sudan too.

Must admit I've not got any knowledge of the middle east, but I would have thought there still is a good playground out there. Either way, we're now a long way from the shoot in Devon.

Edited by wombat172a on Wednesday 13th October 13:45

[Bill]

You started it

I haven't looked into it recently but the Tunisian Libyan border was a piece of piss 5 years ago. I hope things haven't changed as the place seemed to be opening up a bit.