Wrangler or Defender

[A.J.M]

mrdelmonti said:

Harry Flashman said:

loafer123 said:

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...

That'll do it.

Edited by loafer123 on Tuesday 5th October 13:42

Thought about it, but a mate has one, and running costs are epic, and everything has gone wrong with it.

Also, say I were to forget fitting this 4x4 on the drive and were content to leave it in the road, is a current generation Range Rover in TD6 spec capable of some light green laning and teaching me the basics? Or is it really just a big fat luxury car that happens to have 4wd?

They are still very capable but there is always the risk of dent and scratches when taking a "shiny" off the black stuff.

Yep, current gen is very capable, TD6 would be best remapped but reasonable in standard form.
Good tyres would be best mod to it, 18s as standard on TD6 so plenty of choice or 19s with MTR's as landrover used them for the G4 disco 3 and RRS.

[Harry Flashman]

Disco 3 is another option if I go "shiny". Beginning to realize that a good defender that isn't going to be a money pit, and reasonably refined on road will be 10k; getting into RR and Discovery 3 territory...

[McSwerve II]

I love my V8 90, however due to a fleet re-arrangement it’ll be on the market after I get it MOT’ed at the weekend. (£3k to you chap)

In my opinion the largest risk on a Defender is the condition of the chassis, so make sure you get underneath with a torch and hammer. As a chassis replacement is probably £3k.

Because they’re so basic they are pretty reliable.

You could buy one for £3k and then spend a couple more on a make over. Back seats / Rear side windows / New Front Seats / and so on.

[Bill]

Harry Flashman said:

Disco 3 is another option if I go "shiny". Beginning to realize that a good defender that isn't going to be a money pit, and reasonably refined on road will be 10k; getting into RR and Discovery 3 territory...

Early (ie pre-06) D3s have good money pit potential too.

OTOH it's hard to make a Defender a money pit because they're so basic, however it is also hard to make one refined And while they have bags of character it's hard to enjoy hours on end wobbly around on a dark and windy motorway at 70mph.

[Harry Flashman]

McSwerve II said:

I love my V8 90, however due to a fleet re-arrangement it’ll be on the market after I get it MOT’ed at the weekend. (£3k to you chap)

Details please...?

Really like the look of it, but am a beginner about this, and would really appreciate a chat about yours, and what work/upgrades it needs doing, and what is good. I have bought 3 cars from PHers, and it's been a pleasure every time, so hopefully...

I know the diesel is more sensible. But I love V8s. I'll just rent something for long motorway journeys. Sod it.

Please could you PM me your mobile number(for some reason couldn't PM you from your profile), and post a note on here that you have (as I never check that e-mail address...).

Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 6th October 15:15

[Fume troll]

My V8 90 and my brothers 4.0 Wrangler often used to play together.

The landrover won for:

• The V8 noise is way better than the S6 noise, but that's a matter of opinion.
• The landy will beat the jeep offroad but both will go so far that it hardly matters. This is stock spec, if you mod either all bets are off.
• The landy has WAY more capacity, it is bigger all round. The boot in the Wrangler is tiny. Even with the rear seats folded down it's tiny. Really quite remarkably small. The 90 can take tons of stuff, or 7 people (probably not legally!)
• On road handling. It's not good but it's better than the jeep.
• Towing. I think it has about double the capacity, something like 3500kg. Although technically I think this pushes it into another classification so again, may not be legal but is certainly indicative.

The Jeep won for:

• Servicing. They are so simple it's untrue, nothing EVER goes wrong with my brother's one, and it flies through it's MOT every time. The landy meanwhile always has some issues.
• Build quality. Sad but true. The jeep is no swiss watch, but the landy is like a badly built kit car.
• Uses quite a bit less fuel, especially at speed.
• On road comfort. It's quieter, has better seats, better ergonomics and doesn't crush your right elbow into the window.
• Looking a bit gay. But who cares?

Cheers,

FT.

[JimexPL]

I'd look for something unmolested like this -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2010...

Put in a pair of half decent front seats - http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performance/Seats_&a...

A 14" moto lita wheel so you don't hit the side window as often - http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/moto_lita_steering_wheel...

And if necessary spend £500 getting some rear windows and rear seats fitted

Anything that's been modded is likely to be worse on the road than a standard car, and if you're just starting out off-roading a standard 90 is more than capable.

If you do end up doing a lot of long distance driving factor in the cost of uprating the engine and fitting either taller diffs or an overdrive at some point.

[Harry Flashman]

My mate has said that I can borrow his M3 for when I need to do long distances. All I need to do is swap it for the Landy or Morgan. As he's a very close friend, this is absolutely no probnlem for either of us.

so Defender it is. No nod to practicality required. I guess I just need to get used to maintaining two slighly shonkily buil;t Brit cars.

[cmackay81]

Fume troll said:

review

FT.

Ft, that's actually quite a good review of them.
From my experience, the landie does much better in mud and softer ground, whereas the jeep excels on more solid offroad, more rocky offroad. Also for what it's worth I've found jeeps pretty useless in deep water! In a decent quarry, pansies seem to do better at the bottom, and jeeps for getting to the top!

How did you find the takeoff angle of them? This is possibly one of the most important aspects of offroading IMO. A bad takeoff angle like a rangerover, and all the ability in the world is pointless.

All that being said, I've going the legendary status of the landie vastly overrated, and an absolute nightmare to drive over 45 mph on roads

[cmackay81]

For those interested angles are as follows;

Approach. Departure. Breakover

Defender. 50. 53. 25.

Wrangler. 44. 40. 25.

Of course if you're willing to do any mods whatsoever, this all totally changes.

[Harry Flashman]

Hmmm.

As this thing is going to have to live in London, did any of them have power steering fitted?

[wombat172a]

I can't say for Jeeps (but I'll assume most do), but all land rovers from about 86/87 onwards have power steering as standard. It can also be retro-fitted to older series models if need be for not too much cost.

[Fume troll]

cmackay81 said:

Fume troll said:

review

FT.

How did you find the takeoff angle of them? This is possibly one of the most important aspects of offroading IMO. A bad takeoff angle like a rangerover, and all the ability in the world is pointless.

Yeah, the defender is quite a bit better on approach and departure, maybe 10 degree or so better at the front as a much as 20 at the back, and it does make a difference. That said, it's quite dependent on spec, for example you need to take the ridiculous plough shaped tow bar off the landy to get to the high numbers. Plus you will reverse over the standard mud flaps.
On the jeep the towbar gets in the way, but after that it's the bumper, which the landrover doesn't really have.

Rangies are I think about 30 degrees front and back, which is about 15 or so less than the defender. A world of difference.

ETA: I see someone ninja'd me on the angles. The landy also seemed to have more clearance overall, although this is easily changed in both.

Cheers,

FT.

Edited by Fume troll on Thursday 7th October 11:27

[Harry Flashman]

I'm quite excited about this, chaps. Really hoping I don't drive one of my heroes and absolutely hate it...

[Lefty]

Harry Flashman said:

McSwerve II said:

I love my V8 90, however due to a fleet re-arrangement it’ll be on the market after I get it MOT’ed at the weekend. (£3k to you chap)

Details please...?

Really like the look of it, but am a beginner about this, and would really appreciate a chat about yours, and what work/upgrades it needs doing, and what is good. I have bought 3 cars from PHers, and it's been a pleasure every time, so hopefully...

I know the diesel is more sensible. But I love V8s. I'll just rent something for long motorway journeys. Sod it.

Please could you PM me your mobile number(for some reason couldn't PM you from your profile), and post a note on here that you have (as I never check that e-mail address...).

Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 6th October 15:15

Good man, I have a v8 110 and I love it. Fuel economy? Well, yes, it's not good but even the tdi's only do 25mpg and the v8 around 15 (on a cruise) so it's not that bad really. The extra fuel cost is well worth the character of the V8 in my opinion.

[Trommel]

They're likeable things even if they aren't very good in absolute terms.

[Bill]

I'm jealous, someone has started parking a tricked up (cage, snorkel and lift) 90 near miniBill's nursery and it's monumentally cool.

[Fume troll]

Harry Flashman said:

I'm quite excited about this, chaps. Really hoping I don't drive one of my heroes and absolutely hate it...

You won't hate it. You might find it drafty, wandery, thirsty, uncomfortable, cold, rusty, noisy and damp, but you won't hate it.

By the way, the guy I sold my 90 to sent me this video last week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTgZ1aaDy7o
I'm delighted to see her given a new lease of life. (Although the checkerplate is not for me!)

Cheers,

FT.

[McSwerve II]

Chap

You have PM. (Hopefully, unless I've cocked it up)

[cmackay81]

McSwerve II said:

Chap

You have PM. (Hopefully, unless I've cocked it up)

If it's the one on your profile, that's a damn nice looking v8!