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steviejasp
Original Poster
1,174 posts
34 months
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I am a VAT registered sole trader with a flooring company. I need a decent(ish) camera to take some pics for my website and portfolio. Can I put it through as expenses and/or claim the VAT back on it? I am only thinking of an entry level dslr around 500 squids. Many thanks
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Quote
2,396 posts
147 months
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If you can persuade the VAT inspector you need it, and could not have used a £50 jobbie, then sure you can.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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And if you have another camera for non-business use - even better.
Don't forget that if the camera is a legitimate asset for VAT purposes, it will also be a legitimate asset for Capital Allowance purposes - and will be eligible for the 100% Annual Investment Allowance (AIA).
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steviejasp
Original Poster
1,174 posts
34 months
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Thanks chaps, very informative. Eric, in your experience, do you think a VAT inspector would think it an unnecessary expense? I would like to take some nice photos of some of the various designs of floor I fit. I'm not sure a cheapy would be upto it as I was hoping to get some 16x12 enlargements in a portfolio.
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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steviejasp said: do you think a VAT inspector would think it an unnecessary expense? You could play it safe and use a ratio of business/pleasure to defuse any suspicion - as they must be used to people buying nice cameras 'for work' when in fact they aren't. steviejasp said: I would like to take some nice photos of some of the various designs of floor I fit. I'm not sure a cheapy would be upto it as I was hoping to get some 16x12 enlargements in a portfolio. 10Mp would be plenty for that. The thing that will make the most difference between 'snap' and something vaguely professional is lighting.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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steviejasp said: Thanks chaps, very informative. Eric, in your experience, do you think a VAT inspector would think it an unnecessary expense? I would like to take some nice photos of some of the various designs of floor I fit. I'm not sure a cheapy would be upto it as I was hoping to get some 16x12 enlargements in a portfolio. It does not have to be "necessary". The allowability factor is determined by the "wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the trade" maxim. It doesn't have top be necessary for the trade.
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steviejasp
Original Poster
1,174 posts
34 months
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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Eric Mc said: It does not have to be "necessary". The allowability factor is determined by the "wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the trade" maxim. It doesn't have top be necessary for the trade. So I could by an electric elk called Simon and put it through the books? Can something be wholly for trade if it's not actually necessary (ie required)?
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Absolutely.
The general principle in whether a cost is allowable as a TRADING expense entirely rests on the "wholly and exclusive" rule.
This means that a businessman has some flexibility in deciding what to spend on his business. For example, he may decide to buy a van for his business when he could have purchased a pick-up. A van might not be as "necessary" as a pick-up (he might already have a pick-up, for example) but the van is still an allowable cost and the relevant tax reliefs will be claimable.
If there is an element of non-business usage associated with the cost, then an attempt must be made to apportion the tax relief claim. This means that only the business element is claimed and therefore that part of the claim that is made in the business is "wholly and exclusively" for the purpose of the trade.
The test for EMPLOYEES making tax relief claims is more strict because in that "necessity" is a fundamental requirement for the allowability of the claim i.e. the expense must have been incurred "wholly, exclusively and NECESSARILLY" as part of the job requirement. For example, an employer suggests that some employees might want to work from home one day a week. One employee volunteers. He then decides he would like to claim tax relief an element of domestic costs as he is working from home. He cannot do so because it was not a necessary part of his work that he work from home. If he was ORDERED to work from home by his boss, then he COULD make a valid claim.
As for an elk, if you are an elk farmer, then you would have no trouble offsetting the purchase of an elk.
If you normally didn't buy elks but bought one as a publicity stunt (for example) AND you could show HOW it was used for publicity purposes, then you could still claim the cost of the elk.
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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Thanks Eric.
One little question based on real life. My business is mostly wedding photography and the suit I used for it was starting to wear out. So I bought a new suit especially for wearing to weddings. The suit is not used for anything other than weddings. My bookeeper refused to allow it saying it was normal clothing and therefore could be worn at other times and I'd have to prove it was only used for work. I remain unconvinced!
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singlecoil
14,887 posts
115 months
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Simpo Two said: steviejasp said: I would like to take some nice photos of some of the various designs of floor I fit. I'm not sure a cheapy would be upto it as I was hoping to get some 16x12 enlargements in a portfolio. 10Mp would be plenty for that. The thing that will make the most difference between 'snap' and something vaguely professional is lighting. He might need a decent lens too, especially a wide angle if he wants to get most of the floor into the shot.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Simpo Two said: Thanks Eric.
One little question based on real life. My business is mostly wedding photography and the suit I used for it was starting to wear out. So I bought a new suit especially for wearing to weddings. The suit is not used for anything other than weddings. My bookeeper refused to allow it saying it was normal clothing and therefore could be worn at other times and I'd have to prove it was only used for work. I remain unconvinced! Clothing is a bit different as there are specific rules as to what clothing can be claimed. Ordinary day wear, such as suits, is generally NOT allowed as it CAN be used for non-business purposes and it is extremely difficult to demonstrate that it has a business element to it at all. The normal rules are that business related clothing must be - protective or safety wear or be in the nature of a uniform or be specific to the nature of the work A piece of normal clothing can be turned into a trade specific uniform by adding a logo.
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sumo69
857 posts
89 months
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+1 - what he says DAVID Eric Mc said: Clothing is a bit different as there are specific rules as to what clothing can be claimed. Ordinary day wear, such as suits, is generally NOT allowed as it CAN be used for non-business purposes and it is extremely difficult to demonstrate that it has a business element to it at all. The normal rules are that business related clothing must be -
protective or safety wear
or
be in the nature of a uniform
or be specific to the nature of the work
A piece of normal clothing can be turned into a trade specific uniform by adding a logo.
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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singlecoil said: He might need a decent lens too, especially a wide angle if he wants to get most of the floor into the shot. True. Eric Mc said: Ordinary day wear, such as suits, is generally NOT allowed as it CAN be used for non-business purposes and it is extremely difficult to demonstrate that it has a business element to it at all. The same is true of the OP's camera, which doubtless he'll take on holiday... but I'd suggest that a grey suit is not ordinary day wear for someone who is self-employed and works from home. So the definition of 'wholly and exclusively for the purpose of trade' doesn't work in this case.
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TVR MAN
945 posts
91 months
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I'm sure there was a famous case where someone was trying to claim that their suit was wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade. HMRC won by arguing that since you have to wear something for public decency and that something in this case was the suit then it was not wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade 
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Simpo Two said: singlecoil said: He might need a decent lens too, especially a wide angle if he wants to get most of the floor into the shot. True. Eric Mc said: Ordinary day wear, such as suits, is generally NOT allowed as it CAN be used for non-business purposes and it is extremely difficult to demonstrate that it has a business element to it at all. The same is true of the OP's camera, which doubtless he'll take on holiday... but I'd suggest that a grey suit is not ordinary day wear for someone who is self-employed and works from home. So the definition of 'wholly and exclusively for the purpose of trade' doesn't work in this case. Unfortunately, tehre is plenty of case law behind clothing claims that most of the permutations on what is claimable and what is not has been pretty much ironed out (not a pun) by now. You can always make a claim and wait to defend it if challanged.
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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TVR MAN said: I'm sure there was a famous case where someone was trying to claim that their suit was wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade. HMRC won by arguing that since you have to wear something for public decency and that something in this case was the suit then it was not wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade  That's a facile argument, and only makes sense if he has no other clothes. I can assure everyone publicly that the suit is only used for work and I don't sit at home wearing it for pleasure or any other purpose. So it just proves (1) the law is an ass (2) bookeeper was right.
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TVR MAN
945 posts
91 months
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Simpo Two
54,187 posts
134 months
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The daftest bit is 'Similarly the fact that the clothing was only worn at work was immaterial. There was no necessity to restrict his wearing of it to his working hours.'
To return to the camera example, although the OP only wants to use it for work and it is totally allowable, why do HMRC not argue 'there is no necessity to restrict his using of it to his working hours'?
Clothing seems to be a special case based on some highly faulty case law IMHO.
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RYH64E
3,065 posts
113 months
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I put a decent camera, various lenses, lights etc through as an expense, our accountant didn't have an issue with it. It's surprising how often I need to take good quality photos of things to put on the website, or to include in technical reports, or to email to customers/suppliers to illustrate a point. It's genuinely indispensible.
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