PayPal dispute - not as described

[3sixty]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

I sold a PC through a website and was paid by PayPal. The item was tracked and insured and delivery was confirmed with the buyer and also signed for.

I received a message to say that the item had been received and was working fine. A day later I received a message from the buyer saying that the PC was now not working after he had moved it. I suggested a few options for resolving it and he said he had tried it and it still doesnt work.

He has today raised a PayPal dispute for the item "significantly different than that described" and said the item never worked from when he received it and neglected to mention in the dispute about him moving it and causing the problem.

I have all records of communication to prove he said it was working fine. Normally I am a fair person and always accept returns, however he raised the dispute without mentioning that he was looking for a refund which annoyed me and also if he does return the item, I have lost my money and have a damaged PC which I will need to repair/sell as damaged which puts me 'down' on the deal.

It was sold through a personal classifieds website, not eBay. Does anyone have any experience of something like this? Anyone any advice?

[Soir]

eBay always side with the buyers I'm afraid.
Their main aim is not to lose buyers hence you cannot even give them negative feedback.

As a seller it's pretty crap. Sorry this doesn't help your case much I'm just having a moan

(Sold my toddlers bike, lady rang me & said can they pick it up at 10pm I said too late bit anytime next day (sun) she said too much hassle and cancelled order!)

[3sixty]

I understand your point (Although wasnt sold through eBay but PayPal but they are now one of the same).

I am baffled how he can damage an item and I am expected to accept it back in a worse condition than it was sold in?

[3200gt]

Soir said:

eBay always side with the buyers I'm afraid.

You are not dealing with ebay the dispute is through Paypal, so that's not strictly true. I sold a Blackberry to some guy in the eastern bloc who raised a dispute through Paypal.


I had evidence to show, as you do, that all was fine when he received it and, in my opinion, it was just a ruse to get out of paying. I asked him for proof of damage. I assume assume he was reluctant to damage an undamage item which he wanted. I didn't hear from him again and the dispute timed out.

Moral is to while away time with requests for evidence whilst supplying Paypal with all your evidence promptly. From memory a dispute only last for 30 days and then it's shelved.

[Simpo Two]

Clearly the whining git is trying it on.

However, you will need to prove your case at Paypal using his earlier messages that it was received and in good working order. Hopefully they will look at the facts presented and make the right decision.

[DSLiverpool]

Represent your case in detail and you may be surprised, we normally win more than we lose.

Had one today - this phones used, dispute - delivered 12/8/2012 - surely if used she may have told us before 6 weeks had passed.

[3sixty]

Thanks guys.

He has escalated it to a PayPal advisor now, will be sending my response this evening.

[ringram]

yeah if its used and he emailed it was working you may be ok.

But I had a claim upheld as buyer for a drive which worked but not properly. Known issues on vendor forums helped me, plus terrible attitude of the seller including personal abuse etc.

So be nice, state your case carefully with the emails as evidence and see how you go.

[singlecoil]

3sixty said:

A day later I received a message from the buyer saying that the PC was now not working after he had moved it.

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

[marshalla]

singlecoil said:

3sixty said:

A day later I received a message from the buyer saying that the PC was now not working after he had moved it.

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

Rough handling can dislodge a card (video, audio etc.), drive cable or power connector (in extreme circumstances).

[plasticpig]

singlecoil said:

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

Loose connector or dry solder joint. There are quite a few ways that shifting kit around can bugger it.

[Kermit power]

Soir said:

eBay always side with the buyers I'm afraid.

That's simply not true, especially for personal sales which aren't covered by the sale of goods act.

I had my Shogun on Ebay a couple of weeks ago, with the advert clearly stating that the engine was seized and that the buyer would have to be able to transport it from Epsom as it couldn't be driven. It also said "spares and repairs" in the listing subtitle.

The bloke who placed the winning bid then promptly phoned up, asked if the truck could be driven, and when I said it couldn't, tried telling me I'd have to knock the recovery cost (to North London) off his bid price.

I told him it had been an insurmountable delight to talk to him and got on to Ebay to explain what had happened. They promptly cancelled the listing and refunded my fees so that I could relist and have another go.

Granted in this case money hadn't already been transferred, and they did check the profile of the buyer before acting, so they might have seen another reason not to side with him, but to say that Ebay always sides with the buyer is quite simply untrue.

One thing I have taken to doing recently, however, is to put the last 4 digits of the serial number of anything I see which has a serial number in the advert, just to help avoid the risk of someone sending a different unit back claiming I sent them a broken one.

[3sixty]

Yeah, as above depending how heavy handed he was he.could have done quite a bit of damage

He also admitted "having a fiddle" inside the case.

I really can't see how they can side with him, but we shall see

[singlecoil]

plasticpig said:

singlecoil said:

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

Loose connector or dry solder joint. There are quite a few ways that shifting kit around can bugger it.

I daresay, but is that the buyer's fault? I'd expect to be able to move a computer without it failing. Rough handling or fiddling inside I would not expect to get away with, but moving, certainly.

[3sixty]

singlecoil said:

plasticpig said:

singlecoil said:

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

Loose connector or dry solder joint. There are quite a few ways that shifting kit around can bugger it.

I daresay, but is that the buyer's fault? I'd expect to be able to move a computer without it failing. Rough handling or fiddling inside I would not expect to get away with, but moving, certainly.

At the same time, as a seller, I can't be held accountable for the PC working on arrival and then not working following him moving it, however he has done it.

[singlecoil]

3sixty said:

singlecoil said:

plasticpig said:

singlecoil said:

This is the bit that interests me. How can moving a computer cause it to stop working?

Loose connector or dry solder joint. There are quite a few ways that shifting kit around can bugger it.

I daresay, but is that the buyer's fault? I'd expect to be able to move a computer without it failing. Rough handling or fiddling inside I would not expect to get away with, but moving, certainly.

At the same time, as a seller, I can't be held accountable for the PC working on arrival and then not working following him moving it, however he has done it.

Well, it seems that you are being held so accountable, and PayPal are going to agree with him. And who could blame them?. A computer that cannot be moved without failing isn't a lot of use. How on earth could it get from your place to his place if it couldn't be moved?

If he has done something more than move it, then I would agree with you.

[raptor600]

3sixty said:

At the same time, as a seller, I can't be held accountable for the PC working on arrival and then not working following him moving it, however he has done it.

I disagree - you expect to be able to move a computer. If it breaks then it isn't really fit for purpose.

It all depends how he moved it - and if he dropped it...which I guess no one will ever know unfortunately.

[TonyHetherington]

3sixty said:

At the same time, as a seller, I can't be held accountable for the PC working on arrival and then not working following him moving it, however he has done it.

Is your responsibility not until the point it is delivered to him, rather than the point at which it leaves you?

If his courier was picking up the item, then your responsibilty would end at the point his courier picked it up from you.

The point being that if Royal Mail damaged it - it would be you that would have to seek recompense from them, not the buyer.

[3sixty]

He clarified the PC was working when he received it, he turned it on and it worked.

It began to not work when he "moved" it. I have to stress this is only his word, I completely agree a PC should not stop working when its moved. However, this is only his description, he could have taken a hammer to it and it stopped working and he is covering his tracks for all I know.

If he hadnt confirmed it as working, I would be happy to discuss a refund or return. The fact he said it was working and then it stopped as a result of him doing something to it, whatever that may be (Moving, fixing, dropping etc.) I dont feel is my responsibility.

[Simpo Two]

You only had to get it there in working order, which you did. There is no warranty.

Unlucky buyer perhaps but if he wanted a warranty he should have bought a new one from a shop.