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Digga

12,913 posts

163 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Wacky Racer said:
I would wager if you gave either of them £10k they would turn it into a million within a year.
While they're at it I've a few tonnes of pig iron I'd like alchemising.

I doubt it. I really do. Indeed history will eventually show IMHO that one of the simple, measureable costs of the GFC/lost decade will be the relative scarcity of new miwyunairs.

Mike Random

400 posts

50 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike

Wacky Racer

21,398 posts

127 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Mike Random said:
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike
Agreed...they could see opportunities that the average businessman would never spot.

John Whittaker is another............

That's why they are billionaires....

Quote from Mike Ashley last year....

"I'll finish off JJB first and then I'll move on to JD"

Blib

25,207 posts

77 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Mike Random said:
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike
Many years ago I sat down with Phillip Green, who was a family acquaintance and was running a jeans retailer at the time, and outlined my foolproof business plan which would make my fortune. He listened politely to what I had to say. At the end, I asked him for his opinion.

He told me in no uncertain terms that my scheme was a waste of time and that I would, in his words, "Do my bks" if I went ahead.

Being young and headstrong, I ignored his advice and ploughed ahead.

He was right.

hehe

Mike Random

400 posts

50 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Wacky Racer said:
Mike Random said:
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike
Agreed...they could see opportunities that the average businessman would never spot.

John Whittaker is another............

That's why they are billionaires....

Quote from Mike Ashley last year....

"I'll finish off JJB first and then I'll move on to JD"
They have a fast moving mind, it never seems to stop, l work for an extremely successful guy and he is very shrewd and very much a people person, he has a feel for how people are thinking, feeling, he engages people but never puts to much of his opinion across to give his position away.

Mike
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Wacky Racer

21,398 posts

127 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Blib said:
Mike Random said:
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike
Many years ago I sat down with Phillip Green, who was a family acquaintance and was running a jeans retailer at the time, and outlined my foolproof business plan which would make my fortune. He listened politely to what I had to say. At the end, I asked him for his opinion.

He told me in no uncertain terms that my scheme was a waste of time and that I would, in his words, "Do my bks" if I went ahead.

Being young and headstrong, I ignored his advice and ploughed ahead.

He was right.

hehe
I never knew you bought Spurs......biggrin

Mike Random

400 posts

50 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Blib said:
Mike Random said:
Having spent time with some of these types of people l think they would, they see things differently to most people, its maybe hard to explain but they have a different mind set.

Mike
Many years ago I sat down with Phillip Green, who was a family acquaintance and was running a jeans retailer at the time, and outlined my foolproof business plan which would make my fortune. He listened politely to what I had to say. At the end, I asked him for his opinion.

He told me in no uncertain terms that my scheme was a waste of time and that I would, in his words, "Do my bks" if I went ahead.

Being young and headstrong, I ignored his advice and ploughed ahead.

He was right.

hehe
Wealth aside as obviously he has a lot of cash and a massive yacht, he is an incredibly crass individual, he has not elevated with class,

Although like l say very successful who has bet the house a number of times l bet,

Mike

Blib

25,207 posts

77 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Mike Random said:
Wealth aside as obviously he has a lot of cash and a massive yacht, he is an incredibly crass individual, he has not elevated with class,

Although like l say very successful who has bet the house a number of times l bet,

Mike
Well, he gave a young man - me - the time of day. He didn't need to. He explained where my plan would fall short and was correct in his assertion that I could not make a go of it by myself.

To my credit, I nearly proved him wrong. But, as you know, in business, 'nearly' doesn't pay the bills.

A really nice chap, imo.

As for Branson. Well, if Mike Oldfield & Tubular Bells hadn't become a smash, who knows?

surveyor

6,690 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
This is a children in need 'super' apprentice task surely?

Could be quote fun putting the above with say the Dragons, and perhaps some of the previous generation 'super businessman' head to head...

Manks

6,818 posts

102 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
surveyor said:
This is a children in need 'super' apprentice task surely?

Could be quote fun putting the above with say the Dragons, and perhaps some of the previous generation 'super businessman' head to head...
They would never do it.

Though undoubtedly all the above mentioned have some talent and the propensity to work hard, I doubt that one of them has got what they have without some degree of luck or perhaps criminality. I honestly doubt that their egos would allow them to compete with like-minded individuals on a level playing field.

surveyor

6,690 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Manks said:
surveyor said:
This is a children in need 'super' apprentice task surely?

Could be quote fun putting the above with say the Dragons, and perhaps some of the previous generation 'super businessman' head to head...
They would never do it.

Though undoubtedly all the above mentioned have some talent and the propensity to work hard, I doubt that one of them has got what they have without some degree of luck or perhaps criminality. I honestly doubt that their egos would allow them to compete with like-minded individuals on a level playing field.
I agree. they have too much too lose, ego if nothing else.

But it would be good tv. maybe.

fridaypassion

2,497 posts

108 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
I think they would struggle.

In the world we are in now you cant really do what Alan Sugar did with Amstrad. There arent many things these days that you can get into where its the next big thing that everyone is filling their homes with. He did it back then with audio gear and again with the satellite gear. These days whats the next big new thing that everyones filling their house with? An iphone 5?

Branson would stand more of a chance as he seems to not be a ground breaker but just move into a market with a fresh attitude and a good marketing department and they can take a chunk of market share and make money.

The real opportunities for mega success in the modern world probably lie with the techies that can make renewable energy work and the like work. And bankers.

The world is also a bit less meritocratic these days and theres a documented decline in social mobility. The kinds of high tech an complex ways in which real money can be made these days are probably more likely to be accessed by kids with the privilege of better education and serious family financial backing. Lack of funding from banks cant be helping this for regular folk either.

coyft

3,338 posts

91 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
I think they both would. Being entrepreneurial is all about seeing opportunity where others don't. It doesn't matter whether that's property, computers, airline, music or any market. The state of the economy has little to do with it either, recessions create different opportunities.

GEWAGON

Original Poster:

74 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
KISS
keep it simple stupid !!

Work hard , keep overheads to a minimum , save as much as you can, do 80% of the work yourselves employ the rest if needed. But if you dont make any money in first year then do something else it aint working.

Tuna

4,683 posts

164 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
There's just a very slight whiff of reverse snobbery on this thread.

It seems to me that they're genuinely 'different' people to most of the rest of us. They have some innate understanding of risk and possibility, and the charisma and balls to push things through. Of course that winds a lot of people up, but I really doubt they care.

It's worth pointing out that Branson, Sugar and for that matter Steve Jobs have all had disasters and rebuilt businesses from scratch. Creating a multi-million pound business once could be seen as luck - anything beyond that requires a very specific talent.

I find Branson particularly interesting - he has a set of core values that he's managed to reapply across some very different industries with great success. As a techie, those values don't come so naturally to me, so it'd be fascinating to pitch an idea to him and see where he'd take it.

R11ysf

1,461 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
GEWAGON said:
If Alan Sugar, Branson and others had to start again, and had £10K given to them today would they be worth Millions in 30 year’s time?
(IMO I don’t think so!) I think they rode the unmanageable rise in property prices, they had the sense in buying houses and land and right investments when prices were low, as I can’t see any company you own generating £800million in cash in Sugars example.
What do you think ?
OP, to answer you question as put, could they start again tomorrow and turn 10k in to millions then probably not. However, the question is kind of like saying if Pele played football today would he be any good? Again, probably not as the game has moved on. the same applies to Sugar and Branson.

There are lots of people shooting them down for their accomplishments but you can only face what is in front of you at the time. Could they start again at their age tomorrow with their respective fall off in energy levels would be better if they were 17 again tomorrow would they reach millionaire/billionaire status in their lifetime? Then probably.

These guys had incredible ambition and drive and an element of luck. But as many of these highly successful people show they try something and if it fails they try something else. Bannatyne, Dyson, Branson, Cauldwell etc etc they all treid several businesses before hitting the jackpot. They had drive, determination and no small amount of balls and luck.

People on this thread seem to shoot down Sugar (probably because he comes across as a c0ck) and saying he was lucky as he got on the property train and if he'd been good he'd own Apple. Well isn't recognising that a particular asset is cheap a skill? Deciding that a company, share, gold or property is cheap and then buying a load of it to make money is just business. It's not how you do it, it's how much you make.

If Steve Jobs was given £10k do you think he would be a millionaire in a year? Probably not either. How would you start Apple in a world with Samsung and Nokia? You couldn't. What he did was start it in a time when there weren't any major players in that field and he exploited the market gap and combined it with his skills to start a global business. Bill Gates the same only on a bigger scale - he genuinely changed the world. Could he do it again tomorrow, no - but don't let that take anything away from their achievements.

mattnunn

5,411 posts

41 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
I worked with a chap who was an engineering manager at amstrad in the late 80s, he knew Alan Sugar well and said he was a beliggerent, arrogant, aggressive, short sighted bully who put nothing before making a few quid and treated his employees with complete contempt.

So to answer the original question yes I think he would.

StevieBee

4,583 posts

135 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
I recall Sugar himself saying he wouldn't be 'as' successful today as the gaps in the market simply are no longer there and if they are there, they are unlikely to be profitable.

Difficult to be the first at anything so all you can do is be better and sell more than the next guy.

YRRunner

1,382 posts

96 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
I went to an entrepreneur awards dinner in LA back in the 90's, followed by an after dinner speech by Richard Branson. After the speech he opened the floor up for questions. A young Yank at the back of the room asked "Sir Richard, how do you become a millionaire?"
Sir Richard's retort was.... "Start off as a billionaire, and then by an airline". The room was in rapture! biglaugh

GEWAGON

Original Poster:

74 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
R11ysf said:
OP, to answer you question as put, could they start again tomorrow and turn 10k in to millions then probably not. However, the question is kind of like saying if Pele played football today would he be any good? Again, probably not as the game has moved on. the same applies to Sugar and Branson.

There are lots of people shooting them down for their accomplishments but you can only face what is in front of you at the time. Could they start again at their age tomorrow with their respective fall off in energy levels would be better if they were 17 again tomorrow would they reach millionaire/billionaire status in their lifetime? Then probably.

These guys had incredible ambition and drive and an element of luck. But as many of these highly successful people show they try something and if it fails they try something else. Bannatyne, Dyson, Branson, Cauldwell etc etc they all treid several businesses before hitting the jackpot. They had drive, determination and no small amount of balls and luck.

People on this thread seem to shoot down Sugar (probably because he comes across as a c0ck) and saying he was lucky as he got on the property train and if he'd been good he'd own Apple. Well isn't recognising that a particular asset is cheap a skill? Deciding that a company, share, gold or property is cheap and then buying a load of it to make money is just business. It's not how you do it, it's how much you make.

If Steve Jobs was given £10k do you think he would be a millionaire in a year? Probably not either. How would you start Apple in a world with Samsung and Nokia? You couldn't. What he did was start it in a time when there weren't any major players in that field and he exploited the market gap and combined it with his skills to start a global business. Bill Gates the same only on a bigger scale - he genuinely changed the world. Could he do it again tomorrow, no - but don't let that take anything away from their achievements.
No one is knocking their achievements, but things were a lot easer then you could buy a house for 3k, walk out of a job on Monday and get another Tuesday if you had a bit of common sense you could make money. Nowadays there is too much information that every one can get so every market is saturated with amateur entrepreneurs in a lot of cases, so most business run on over-draughts or loans because of this. To be successful you need to be in a cash rich profitable business start small and build up your wealth slowly, or be extra special like inventing Facebook etc.

Today’s high street consist of, payday loans, bookies, pawn shops, food outlets or no win no fee ambulance chasers and the rest is full of companies selling you information on how to be a successful business man or get rich quick schemes.


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