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porridge

Original Poster:

1,109 posts

29 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Just got a letter, one for my accountant to do but just wondered if the general consencus is that the change is good/more red tape

Apparently it will help with the forthcoming Universal Credit administration.

Edited by porridge on Monday 8th October 18:37

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
It effectively means that the employer (or the payroll agent) will need to submit either every week or every month (depending on payroll frequency) the equivalent of the previously once a year Employer's Annual Return.

He will therefore need to be aware of ALL factors concerning the employee such as
and any changes within the week or month related to -

marital status
parental status
living with/without partner status
student loan status
other income status
benefit in kind changes
tax credits (in some cases)
benefits (in some cases)


There will be fines (weekly and monthly) for late filing, failing to notify and/or probably notifying incorrect data.

Should be fun.

I certainly will be charging my clients a lot more for administering their payrolls from April 2013.

I will be attending a course on this new system (referred to as Real Time Information or RTI) in November.

PurpleMoonlight

2,627 posts

42 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Anyone got a link for info on this please?

First I have heard of it. I run 30 payrolls!!!!

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I find that frankly amazing.

This is the biggest change to PAYE since its introduction in the mid 1940s.
If you go to the HMRC website and look in the Employer's Section you will see some guidance. The scheme is already in place for those who want to voluntarilly register for RTI. It becomes compulsory for all employers on 6 April 2013.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/index.htm

porridge

Original Poster:

1,109 posts

29 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
I find that frankly amazing.
Quick search indicates this is the norm, tax advisors press announcements warning big businesses are aware and preparing but for SMEs it will come as a big shock.

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Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
HMRC are SUPPOSED to be sending out an information pack to all employers. The plan is that everyone should have got one by December 2012.

It is important that employers or their payroll agents get ready for this because it will entail -

training and courses

reading up on the new (onerous) requirements

implementing and/or upgrading payroll software to have it ready and fully finctional in 6 month's time

The DTI and the FSB and the various accounting and tax bodies have all called for a 12 month delay in the implementation of these changes. HMRC are refusing point black to delay anything.

PurpleMoonlight

2,627 posts

42 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I have yet to receive any info from HMRC.

I use ERNIE payroll and they have been sending out the odd email which to be honest I didn't read because I didn't think it applied to me. I currently don't link the payroll program with HMRC (I do the end of year stuff manually with HMRC online) but I guess I'm going to have to now. Seems then the program will likely submit all the data at the click of a button.

All bar one of the payrolls I do have only one or two people in them.

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
As with me.

Anyone with a regular turnover of casual staff (pubs, restaurants etc) will find this system a complete nightmare I reckon.

On the other hand, it should make employers far more dilligent in their record keeping and checking of staff.I am sure HMRC are hoping that it will cut down on such matters as employment of illegal immigrants, false or incorrect NI numbers, fake names and addresses etc.

PurpleMoonlight

2,627 posts

42 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I would bet the main aim is to be able to collect the correct tax/NI on a monthly basis.

At the moment HMRC only get an annual assessment of what is payable, but soon they will know what is payable on a monthly basis. Won't be long before they start imposing penalties on those that don't pay it promptly I bet.

BlueMR2

6,198 posts

87 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Does this effect sole traders at all?

PurpleMoonlight

2,627 posts

42 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
BlueMR2 said:
Does this effect sole traders at all?
If you employ people on PAYE then yes it would seem so.

For your self employed earning I would say no as you are not PAYE.

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
I would bet the main aim is to be able to collect the correct tax/NI on a monthly basis.

At the moment HMRC only get an annual assessment of what is payable, but soon they will know what is payable on a monthly basis. Won't be long before they start imposing penalties on those that don't pay it promptly I bet.
Penalties will apply from the very start of the system. And the new penalties are not about paying PAYE/NI (we already hagve these in place right now). These penalties will be about failing to meet the monthly/weekly data filing deadlines or filing incorrect or misleading data.

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
[quote]If you employ people on PAYE then yes it would seem so.

For your self employed earning I would say no as you are not PAYE.
Correct. If you are an employer and pay staff under the PAYE system - then it applies to your business. It does not matter whether your business is set up as a

sole trader
partnership
limited liability partnership
limited company
plc
charity
club

Even families that employ a nanny will have to comply - and have access to the relevant software to do their weekly/monthly filing.

PurpleMoonlight

2,627 posts

42 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
Even families that employ a nanny will have to comply - and have access to the relevant software to do their weekly/monthly filing.
Can always rely on the government to hinder employment .....

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
It's part of their red tape strategy smile

grumbas

718 posts

76 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
These penalties will be about failing to meet the monthly/weekly data filing deadlines or filing incorrect or misleading data.
So as an employer where do you stand if you take on an employee who can't provide a P45, doesn't know their NI number (or too lazy to find it) and give you generally duff info?

Previously you might have paid them anyway and sorted over a couple of months in time for the annual return, but presumably now it's all got to be sorted before first payroll is done?

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
grumbas said:
So as an employer where do you stand if you take on an employee who can't provide a P45, doesn't know their NI number (or too lazy to find it) and give you generally duff info?

Previously you might have paid them anyway and sorted over a couple of months in time for the annual return, but presumably now it's all got to be sorted before first payroll is done?
Change of culture required.

No valid NI - no job.
No P45 - sign a P46

Whatever you do, you need to follow the rules.

You won't have the luxury anymore of sorting an employee's information over a couple of months. It must be right from the word go.

joewilliams

2,004 posts

86 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I find it hard to believe that someone running 30 payrolls is unaware of the changes, but then I've been getting bombarded with information from Sage since January so it seems like old news. We're in the trial scheme, so should be switching clients over in the next few months.

It hasn't affected our overall prices too much - there's no year-end submissions to make anymore, the software handles the monthly/weekly submissions, there's just a little bit more checking of paperwork at the start of employment. We've made very certain to put the responsibility for data accuracy on to the client, so they carry any extra fees or fines incurred.

Eric Mc

76,443 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
I don't think it's all bad. It certainly should smarten up a few employers - although my fear is that it will drive more engagements into the "casual/black economy" sector.

Leithen

3,434 posts

152 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
So, can we put in place procedural forms that require signature each week by all our staff that are paid weekly, that places the entire responsibility for "correct supply of information" on them?

It'll be a bit rum if we get fined for our employees inability to tell us what has changed correctly and in time.
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